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If you dont like the VOR game, thats fine. If you got a bone to pick with me, thats fine. But dont post blatant completely false information (ie; lies). Thats not cool at all.

My info came from a long time friend, Chris Bledsoe, who was running Partha at the time. Unfortunately, Chris died of cancer a few years back, so the arguement ends here, with you having an opinion that differs from mine.

I don't know you at all, have no bone to pick with you, and believe what Chris told me. I'll leave it at that.

mikhaila wrote:If you dont like the VOR game, thats fine. If you got a bone to pick with me, thats fine. But dont post blatant completely false information (ie; lies). Thats not cool at all.

My info came from a long time friend, Chris Bledsoe, who was running Partha at the time. Unfortunately, Chris died of cancer a few years back, so the arguement ends here, with you having an opinion that differs from mine. I don't know you at all, have no bone to pick with you, and believe what Chris told me. I'll leave it at that.

I figured thats where the bad info came from. Chris had a serious grudge about VOR (and me) and said all sorts of BS to alot people. He hated the fact that it allowed any minis (not just partha/fasa stuff) and it was in direct competition with the fantasy game he wanted to do at the same time (which was a freaking MESS btw). He ultimately lost his job at partha due to his lies and BS that all caught up to him.

I did hear about him losing out to cancer tho, and even tho he was a nightmare to work with, NOBODY deserves to go out like that. Thats just to harsh. :(

Skuzz wrote:Yes VOR 2.0 is coming. The focus isnt in taking over the game industry or being filthy rich,

Considering how Vor 1.0 went over like a lead balloon and stores weren't even able to *GIVE* the product away, I don't think you'll have the slightest disagreement from anyone who remembers Vor.

But I couldnt possibly post here without addressing this stunningly clueless post...

Wow, way to drum up sales based on your confidence as a company. :S

Not.

Gheesh where to even start.

It's probably better for the company if you don't.

Skuzz wrote:I figured thats where the bad info came from. Chris had a serious grudge about VOR (and me) and said all sorts of BS to alot people. He hated the fact that it allowed any minis (not just partha/fasa stuff) and it was in direct competition with the fantasy game he wanted to do at the same time (which was a freaking MESS btw). He ultimately lost his job at partha due to his lies and BS that all caught up to him.

I did hear about him losing out to cancer tho, and even tho he was a nightmare to work with, NOBODY deserves to go out like that. Thats just to harsh. :(

It was harsh as well when the Ral Partha paychecks all started bouncing. That might have had a wee bit to do with him leaving. Not getting paid yourself and having to tell your crew they aren't getting paid sort of makes the job suck.

I'm going to drop this topic, as Chris isn't around to defend himself, and you seem to have quite a grudge against him.

Skuzz wrote:

mikhaila wrote:If you dont like the VOR game, thats fine. If you got a bone to pick with me, thats fine. But dont post blatant completely false information (ie; lies). Thats not cool at all.

My info came from a long time friend, Chris Bledsoe, who was running Partha at the time. Unfortunately, Chris died of cancer a few years back, so the arguement ends here, with you having an opinion that differs from mine. I don't know you at all, have no bone to pick with you, and believe what Chris told me. I'll leave it at that.

I figured thats where the bad info came from. Chris had a serious grudge about VOR (and me) and said all sorts of BS to alot people. He hated the fact that it allowed any minis (not just partha/fasa stuff) and it was in direct competition with the fantasy game he wanted to do at the same time (which was a freaking MESS btw). He ultimately lost his job at partha due to his lies and BS that all caught up to him.

I did hear about him losing out to cancer tho, and even tho he was a nightmare to work with, NOBODY deserves to go out like that. Thats just to harsh. :(

Not that my opinion matters any here, but I am now going to hold back on any purchasing I might have done from VOR due to this post. (sometimes even the dead need an advocate)

The dead cant defend themselves and this is bad form.

Its one thing to politely state that there was a conflict with this former colleague to clarify matters of this apparent conflict between you and Mikhaila, it is another for someone representing the business to come to a public fora and be quite free to express their opinions about a former colleague who is now dead and cannot defend their position. You obviously had conflict with this fellow, you have made that crystal clear.

You do yourself and the game/company you represent a disservice by your lack of professionalism in the possible libel you type.

How are the consumers supposed to think that this is a serious consideration to bring the game back to full steam, when you say such here? Is that supposed to garner consumer confidence in your product by speaking ill about someone who cannot defend themselves?

No thanks I say.

You risk much coming here saying these things since such fringe games of dubious quality as VOR are either made or broken due to word of mouth.

You have made a great start in showing us how this game is making a comeback. You already called a major retailer a lier here, when perhaps he might have been misinformed. I seriously doubt he will be doing much ordering from you. Thanks for saving me the trouble of considering this game in the future, because I wont be doing much ordering either.

Now this is funny. A guy comes on to defend himself from some truly horrendous crap being slung around on Dakka, and he gets jumped for being overly harsh,... on Dakka. How funny that is.

I am sorry, when people having been posting around the net that Vor was the downfall of FASA, and that is something most of us have never heard, he has the right to defend himself. Here we have Mikhaila quoting a source that is no longer alive as basis for him haranguing Vor and Skuzzy.

On the other hand I liked Vor. It was a fun system, had it's own little problems. But overall was a nice diversion from everything of the day out.

The best thing about it was the setup. Any and every army you had could be brought into the game if you wanted to, and it was all explained away in the background. Everyone is in the Maelstrom fighting over resources to survive. Anything and everything could end up there, so I saw Warzone, 40k and WW2 minis battling it out with Vor factions. It was fun entirely for that reason (and the fact that the Neo-Sovs were a great faction). But, just like Warzone and 40k of the time. There were some bad figs. Some very cool concepts though.

Toreador wrote:Now this is funny. A guy comes on to defend himself from some truly horrendous crap being slung around on Dakka, and he gets jumped for being overly harsh,... on Dakka. How funny that is.

I am sorry, when people having been posting around the net that Vor was the downfall of FASA, and that is something most of us have never heard, he has the right to defend himself. Here we have Mikhaila quoting a source that is no longer alive as basis for him haranguing Vor and Skuzzy.

and again, we have a representative of a company calling people liers when they might have been merely misinformed.

To clarify matters professionally is one thing, to basically be vile is another.

[edit]

I agree with JohnHwangDD. It may be better for the company if he simply didn't.

Not exactly sure he represents any company at this point. He just created and owns the rights to the game, and he was being called out about it. How can you not defend yourself from that? And they were the only two that knew he was dead, and yet one person used him as a source, and the other explained where the issues between them were. The last days of that company many a horrid thing happened if you believe all the scuttlebutt.

I didn't know Dakkaites were so dainty.

Toreador wrote:Not exactly sure he represents any company at this point. He just created and owns the rights to the game, and he was being called out about it. How can you not defend yourself from that? And they were the only two that knew he was dead, and yet one person used him as a source, and the other explained where the issues between them were. The last days of that company many a horrid thing happened if you believe all the scuttlebutt.

I didn't know Dakkaites were so dainty.

And AGAIN, to clarify matters professionally is one thing, to basically be vile is another. Even if he doesn't represent the company, it is still a shame for him to be so nasty. It doesn't reflect well on the game/company.

But I will agree that since before the end of days for Partha and FASA, I heard many a nasty rumor being bandied about, on both forums and by LGS. It would be better for all parties involved to be professional about what they say regarding any clarifications on the matter, however.

[edit]
as far as dainty, you post that as if you weren't a member. You are among those you are so critical of, remember that.

Wow, Hellfury calling someone else ''nasty''. Ironic? Or simply sad?

Hellfury wrote:

and again, we have a representative of a company calling people liers when they might have been merely misinformed.

To clarify matters professionally is one thing, to basically be vile is another.

[edit]

I agree with JohnHwangDD. It may be better for the company if he simply didn't.

No offense Hellfury, but I find it amusing that you'll give one person gak for contradicting a dead guys information, but give a pass to another who's using the same one. At this junction, you(and I) have no idea who's telling the truth.

Tor has it right: its funny you give one a pass, and the other not for defending himself.

There's a difference between defending oneself against criticism and maligning the critic. Why assume that mikhaila is a malicious liar when he could simply be mistaken (from Skuzz's PoV)? Why cast aspersions on one who's passed on--true or not--when it would suffice to say that said person was not an unbiased observer and had his own reasons for saying what he did? You can stand your ground without being an arsehole.

That is the problem with posting what you "hear" from "sources", especially when it is rather nasty in itself.

I never said I wasn't dainty...

A company or it's agent can, and should, make sure to get proper and correct information in the marketplace, especially if the info being passed on is false and harmful.

However, and this is a big however, insulting the people passing on the rumours is a poor strategy. People will assume that the reason the company is being insulting because they can't shore up their side with facts, and are simply discrediting the first speaker. People understand industry gossip, and they know, or should know, that small companies often end in bad blood. Asserting the companies side is a simple, straight forward manner, with documentation if possible, will enable people to make the choice between believing an industry rep (who has every reason to conceal negative truths) and, in this case, a Store owner who got second and third hand information. Give the readers here some credit in understanding that some of Mikhalias post was his own opinion, and the rest was all second hand opinion. Trying to discredit Mikhalia with insults (which while not exactly over the top weren't exactly professional) sends the message that the rumours were true, which is counterproductive.

I have no stake in this, I wasn't going to buy the game before and I won't now, but even GW agents are relentlessly polite when they post where.

Except that Skuzz wasn't insulting Mikhaila, Skuzz was insulting Mikhaila's post as misinformation. Whether the information in Mikhaila's post was discredited will depend on the reader and their ability to make that judgment.

Toreador was, unfortunately, right. The guy comes on here to speak his piece and gets jumped on in true Dakka-style. It'd be nice if people around here could distinguish between posts and the people that write them.

Faint hopes, eh?

Actually, mikhaila spoke his piece before Skuzz came on here. Skuzz, understandably, took issue with the what mikhaila said and attempted to rebut it (which I think he did quite convincingly--although it would be more convincing if it weren't apparent that there was no way for the other party to respond). There's nothing wrong with that, just that the manner in which it was done leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Whatever other points are made in this thread, I will say this: talking trash about someone's dead friend isn't the polite thing to do.

As this thread is only going to stir up more acrimony, I'm locking it.