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Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Episode 6 is uploading as I type this.

In this episode we have an extending Achievements in Gaming as Craig reports from Italy. We also finish our overview of Warmachine that we began in Episode 5, this time we delve into the details of the mechanics. Please let us know what you think!!


Check out the latest episode here:

http://www.TheD6Generation.com




Link to thread about Episode 5:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210643.page

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2008/05/17 04:43:02


 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

Quit teasing us!!!!

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys,

First off i love the show, podhammer turned me onto you guys and i have loved every ep. so far!

The thing is up till this ep. i was really liking how Warmachine sounded to play. However some of the stuff mentioned in the ep really turned me off to even trying it.

There were a few things i wanted to ask/discuss about in the show:

(all this stuff is said with an exclusive Warhammer fantasy background)

-warmachines aggressive nature,

It seems that it removes a portion of tactics from the game. In fantasy i can play very aggressivly but with my particular army i rely very much on preparing advantagous situations, casting that spell, moving those chariots into the flank, moving those minotuars into the flank and placing those fliers behind to catch the unit if they break. Bringing it and playing like i have a pair would result in loosing pretty much all my games unless i was very very lucky.

Does it make a better game if you are almost forced into this ''play like you got a pair'' ethos? I believe being given the choice is key to a good game.

-Boosting,

Now you all love this mechanic and i see why, but i can not stand the idea of it. As per your example Jack vs nimble guy, was it 9 on 2 dice vs 9 on 3 dice? Surely it would have been better to just avoid that combat with the jack and put him into something he can squish into plup easily?

The boost mechanic seems to replace some tactical elements of the game, you can put a big slow heavy thing into a light nimble hard to hit thing and still have a good chance to hurt him. The same isnt true in warhammer, i cant put my strength 3 guys into 1+ save troops and expect them to win, i have to make sure i have the right tools in place before charging becomes an issue.

It just seems to reward sloppy play, it gives you a get out clause if you make a silly mistake, I would feel like i was cheating if i used the boost mechanic to remove myself from a bad situation i had put myself in.

Would the game be more tactical if you removed the boost mechanic?

-Characters and units,

One thing that truely turned me off warmachine, not being able to create your own character sucks imo. Not being able to create anything about who your character is also turns me off. Its just boring to face the same characters all the time.

Its both similar and different in warhammer, there are some cookie cutter choices for each army, however sometimes you will run into a character or unit and think i never even thought of that combo or even better i thought of it and thought it sucked!

Restricting the sizes of units also seems a bit dull, in Warhammer simply the size of each unit can define its role on the battle field.

-Races and veriaty,

I do see how different warcasters would change the army completly however you seemed to assume Warmachine was unique in this. In fantasy you have 2-3 lord choices and each one drastically affects how the army plays, what the army is made up of and the role of the general in the army.

Fantasy has 15-17 different armies (depending on whether you count chaos dwarfs and dogs of war) each having 2-3 different lord choices, and each army again having an almost unlimited array of possible builds and play styles.

Warmachine still can not compete with GW on the veriaty side of things.

-Points values and cost/time,

The standard for fantasy is 2000pts but for the most part i only play those games with my mates in his shed. Down at the hobby store ill probably play 750-1000pt games, which last about an hour (or alot less) and are probably as cheap as warmachine to buy. The difference is warhammer fantasy can work very well at 500pts, 750pts but also work at 3000pts without feeling to laboured and clunky.

Warmachine hamstrings itself by making every model act independantly.

-staggered release,

Now i do have to admit when i first heard this it sounded bad ass. New stuff every month hot dang!!

But then i thought well, you have to play with an army alot to become very good with it, knowing each units limits and learning to use the synergies without thinking about it, if you are always looking to new models and new units surely you will never master the army becuase you will be trying to use the new thing?

Also it kinda smacks of FOTM selling, everyone impluse buys the new hot thing but becuase its only one unit they dont feel they are spending to much.

The only thing i admit to buying is the new army books becuase im a complusive list writer, also it means you have a good idea of how a list functions and what it can include.

As you guys do i dont want to end of a negative

I love the hordes models they rock i couldnt see an army of them but a few as painting projects may well be a possibity in the future.

The flexabilty in combat is cool, being able to do all that stuff re introduces the tactics lost by boosting etc.

It is an inovative rules system and PP have to be credited with supporting it so well.

However the anti gw stuff is childish, to be honst warmachine and hordes are not competing with warhammer. Warmachine is skirmish 20 models at most (as you guys said), fantasy is about armies, 20 models is a standard rank and file block unit, (50 models for the super elite armies with a big gribbly monster im) in my eyes appart from the fact you beat up models with other models the games are in no way competing with each other.

You guys should try out fantasy, i think you would like it far far more than 40k, it might also provide some personal experience on what it awesome about GWs fantasy system.

Massive long post out!!

Keep up the great podcasting!
   
Made in au
Pauper with Promise





Great pod cast, started listening last week. The thing I like is that you guys are entertaining. Keep it up.

Now I know you guys aren't big fans of GW Lord of the Rings but it would be interesting if you could give your two cents on the rules set objectively. I'm a fan of LOTR because like WH 40k it is a skirmish system but unlike 40k it has a few game mechanics that really appeal to me. Naming mainly the Might, Will and Fate system which is like the warmachine focus rules (I might just get my butt kicked for that comment).

Yes it's not yet an established game and it is controversial as a success for GW but looking at the rules there is a lot there and maybe they should translate some of those rules to 40k. Like to hear some comments on it.

Have fun.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Watcher: Great comments and we'll have to throw that into a future mail bag show. Thanks for taking the time to listen and put so much thought into your reply.


Kingcaboose: Actually both Craig and I are fans of the LoTR game by GW. I happen to think it is one of their stronger rule sets. That would be a fun topic.

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Philadelphia

Great one yet again guys, loved the intro music and rapid fire keeps getting better. The WM review was excellent and reminded me of the things I love and the things I dont about the system. Very fair I think despite your obvious and admitted fanboyism.

WATCHER:

I would suggest that you consider the following in regards to the boost mechanic.

It does not reduce the tactical options, it multiplyes them ten fold. And you will find there is no game out there that PUNISHES sloppy play as severely as warmachine. The reason for this is that focus is a very limited resource, and every time you spend focus it takes away from your casters power and spell usage for the turn. If you are forced to spend that precious resource to get you out of a poor tactical decision, you are paying a very heavy price that can be hard to recover from as every point of focus is gold.

What the focus system allows you to do is to dramatically increase the number of tactical options you have at your disposal and that your opponent must account for in his own planning. This makes tactical decisions infinitely more important because your enemy can and will seize upon your mistakes with overwealming ability if you give him the chance.

And your concern that you can only play agressivly is not truly accurate. Defensive tactics are also crucial but what makes WM/H different is the vast array of options made possible by the focus system allow you to take advantage of an opportunity much more forcefully than in WHFB for instance.

Another good example is that in WHFB you pretty much know how your units will fare against one another. If a unit of chaos knights charges a unit of empire spearmen, baring a total dice whiff, the results are almost predetermined. This makes WHFB a game very simillar to basic chess as the abilities of each unit and how they will interact with other units is set fairly accurately the moment the units are deployed.

In WM this can not be further from the truth because the ability of the Warcaster to enhance and support the units, as well as the vast variety of actions possible for these units makes it very possible to change the balance of the game at a moments notice. This only works if your decisions are spot on. Sloppy play here just wastes your resources and hands your opponent and easy victory.

I love WHFB, and have played it for 15 years. But I would have to say that the tactical skill required to play and win regularly in WM is much higher than in WHFB where list design is a much greater determining factor of victory. At the highest levels WM is like playing poker and chess at the same time. If you cant read your opponents intentions well and anticipate his actions then no matter the skill you have in moving pieces, you will almost allways loose.

Just my two cents.

And FYI , My favorite game is Flames of War and I would be the first to admit that WM has far more tactical options for the player then Flames. ( I just like lots and lots of tanks, what can I say )

Big Troy, The Samurai Gunslinger of South Philly

Dystopian Wars fleets: KoB, EotBS, Prussian, FSA
Firestorm Armada Fleets: Sorellian

Current 5th ed WL record
Salamander Marines 22-3(Local) GT Circuit 2-0-1
Mech Vet Guard 54-8-4 (local) 5-1 Ard Boyz


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Well said Bigtmac! Well put indeed.

Tactically, WM/Hordes are probably amongst the most challenging games I've ever played based on exactly what you've described. But it is certainly not going to be everyone's cup 'o tea and I'm glad to hear that we were able to convey some of that beyond my obvious fanboy feelings. Craig did a good job of keeping me in check.

BTW, I believe we were promised some sort of review of D6G on your lovely website when we hit Episode 5. We're on 6 now... I'm just say'n.

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Philadelphia

Continiing on Watchers post:

On the other hand,

The rest of your points and concerns are pretty accurate IMHO and they are the reasons that despite my personal love of the rules system and the fluff, that I play WH/H only occasionally. I think Confrontation for fantasy, and AT-43 for sci fi are a little better in that they do allow for some customization and share clear well written rules with good tactical options. When it comes to variety and customizability however, the champ, hands down, is definitley GW and that along with great large scale plastic kits are what keep me coming back to 40k/Fantasy despite my personal belife that they have pretty poor balance and design elements.

Based on the way you seem to like tactical and challenging game play, I think you would defiitely enjoy WM/H as a secondary game system. This is easilly possible at the 500 point level, but I doubt that you would choose it over WHFB as your primary game. The nice thing about the PP games is that the cost to play casually if pretty low both in painting time and currency allowing you to still enjoy your favorite game while having fun with something different from time to time.

Big Troy, The Samurai Gunslinger of South Philly

Dystopian Wars fleets: KoB, EotBS, Prussian, FSA
Firestorm Armada Fleets: Sorellian

Current 5th ed WL record
Salamander Marines 22-3(Local) GT Circuit 2-0-1
Mech Vet Guard 54-8-4 (local) 5-1 Ard Boyz


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Philadelphia

BTW, I believe we were promised some sort of review of D6G on your lovely website when we hit Episode 5. We're on 6 now... I'm just say'n


Thanks for the reminder Russ, definitely need to get that out! Had a couple other projects running this last few weeks but need to give some love to my blog too and the d6 review is at the top of the list.

Thanks again, you know how we old men forget things.

Big Troy, The Samurai Gunslinger of South Philly

Dystopian Wars fleets: KoB, EotBS, Prussian, FSA
Firestorm Armada Fleets: Sorellian

Current 5th ed WL record
Salamander Marines 22-3(Local) GT Circuit 2-0-1
Mech Vet Guard 54-8-4 (local) 5-1 Ard Boyz


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




bigtmac68 wrote:Continiing on Watchers post:

On the other hand,

The rest of your points and concerns are pretty accurate IMHO and they are the reasons that despite my personal love of the rules system and the fluff, that I play WH/H only occasionally. I think Confrontation for fantasy, and AT-43 for sci fi are a little better in that they do allow for some customization and share clear well written rules with good tactical options. When it comes to variety and customizability however, the champ, hands down, is definitley GW and that along with great large scale plastic kits are what keep me coming back to 40k/Fantasy despite my personal belife that they have pretty poor balance and design elements.

Based on the way you seem to like tactical and challenging game play, I think you would defiitely enjoy WM/H as a secondary game system. This is easilly possible at the 500 point level, but I doubt that you would choose it over WHFB as your primary game. The nice thing about the PP games is that the cost to play casually if pretty low both in painting time and currency allowing you to still enjoy your favorite game while having fun with something different from time to time.


I would have too agree, i am definatly thinking of trying WM/H purely so i can paint some minis to a really high standard and game with them as well, and play a different game system.

And i do get that boosting makes for a mirrade of tactical options, i just didnt like the example Russ gave in the show what i saw it as was kind of elf spearmen charge a block of 2+ chosen warriors or knights and then when you realize the situation you can boost them to str5 insted of str 3.

But i do see how it would reward extreme tactical play.

One thing i forgot to mention is Movement!

Since everything seems to flexable in WM/H how important is movement? That is one thing which makes me love fantasy, if i out manover my oponent i have a really good chance of delivering a knockout blow. However WM/H doesnt seem to reward movement in that way? No flanks rears or crossfire that i heard of in the show?

Russ: Thanks that would be cool, btw my name is Rob, dont want to be known by my silly throw back to my wood elf days forum tag

Im a fanboi of fantasy dont worry lol
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Manchester NH USA

Hey Guys
That was painfuly enjoyable! LOL

Looking forward to your "Wings of War" review Just picked it up along with the "Burning Dragens" set due to its "solo" play mode wondering if you might mention any other games with a solo mode built in.
Hollywood sure hit home with his Star wars anolagy ! thanks

G-dog



   
Made in ie
Ravager




Watcher wrote:
One thing i forgot to mention is Movement!

Since everything seems to flexable in WM/H how important is movement? That is one thing which makes me love fantasy, if i out manover my oponent i have a really good chance of delivering a knockout blow. However WM/H doesnt seem to reward movement in that way? No flanks rears or crossfire that i heard of in the show?

There are limited rules advantages to spending a models complete activation in another models rear arc. +2 to hit, roughly doubling your chances. A few other models have special rules that only apply if they make it into the rear arc.

Despite that, movement is very important. My Circle army lives or dies with it's manouevering - circle consists of nancy boys who can't take a hit, or give one, so they have to use their high manouverablity, good terrain handling and general trickiness to win.

My Menoth don't rely remotely so much on maneouver, so it depends on the faction you choose.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Watcher wrote:

Since everything seems to flexable in WM/H how important is movement? That is one thing which makes me love fantasy, if i out manover my oponent i have a really good chance of delivering a knockout blow. However WM/H doesnt seem to reward movement in that way? No flanks rears or crossfire that i heard of in the show?



We did neglect to mention that WM does reward flanking. Firstly, ALL models in the game have a 180 degree front arc. Even models in units! If you can get around or behind them you will get bonuses to hit. Also, your LOS is only in the front arc, so you can't shoot or charge something not in front of you. If you can flank, or even better, get behind, your opponent, he will have a real problem as models/units can't fight in both directions at one, and they are easier to hit from the rear.

Secondly, it's really important to screen models in this game, esp the caster. If you can get around or behind an enemy's main line, you will then threaten their soft squishy units, including the all important Warcaster.

This is something that may have come across confusing in the show, as we said the game rewards agression, then later I said "it's important to play defensivly with your caster". What I meant by that is you must protect your caster. The football analogy would be keep your QB 'in the pocket'. If your warcaster is forced out of his/her protection, because the front line has failed, or you've been flanked, or whatever, your game just went from solid offense to potentially "save the caster" in a second.

That is what Raef means in the show when he says "The game can turn on a dime"


Note about boosting: I should mention you can only boost a Warjack. And Warjacks are typically slow, lumbering machines. The idea is that for them to hit anything other than the broad side of a barn you NEED to boost them. So boosting feels less like "how can I save my screw up" and more like "where should I spend my boosts to maximize my bang for the buck".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/05/05 19:33:59


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




oooooohhh, i thought boost was available to all or most units.

that makes more sense.

and im glad that there are some movement rules and bonuses, that makes it way way way more appealing to me.

might try and get my mates to buy battle boxes around xmas to try it out.

i think WM looks like a really strong skirmish game but for all GWs flaws they own the fantasy army scale market, fanboi /away

One other thing i wanted to discuss.

With the staggered release does there ever get a feel that the armies never settle and there is to much shifting in the lists? With warhammer there are long periods between books allowing people to experiment within the set sphere and become truely expert with their entire army list? and learn to love their army and how it plays.

Also, is there a fear that the constant evolution of the WH/H world could lead to some characters being lost or units being changed because of the need to advance to world, the character thing comes mainly becuase the only ones available are named not self mades ones as in warhammer. GW is criticized for not advancing their world, which is understandable but i think they have a good world and advancing it would damage some armies.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Watcher wrote:i think WM looks like a really strong skirmish game but for all GWs flaws they own the fantasy army scale market, fanboi /away

One other thing i wanted to discuss.

With the staggered release does there ever get a feel that the armies never settle and there is to much shifting in the lists? With warhammer there are long periods between books allowing people to experiment within the set sphere and become truely expert with their entire army list? and learn to love their army and how it plays.

Also, is there a fear that the constant evolution of the WH/H world could lead to some characters being lost or units being changed because of the need to advance to world, the character thing comes mainly becuase the only ones available are named not self mades ones as in warhammer. GW is criticized for not advancing their world, which is understandable but i think they have a good world and advancing it would damage some armies.


Army Size: I agree with you, WM/Hordes are skirmish games, if you are after a large scale army battle, then WHFB is by far the strongest choice for a Fantasy fan. (For the record I played WHFB for a few years, culminating with my participation at both the Baltimore and Toronto GT's...Go Lizardmen!)

Staged Release
I should be clear that they don't release new books THAT frequently. Since Hordes, they have alternated one book a year for each game. So last year was the Evolution expansion for Hordes, this year it is the Legends expansion for WM. So over the past, say 3 years, there have been two 'game expanding' books for WM: Superiority and now Legends. Although the pirates book did come out this past winter, but that was unusual and was kind of like a "Dogs of War" book release you might see in Fantasy.

So at that rate, you don't feel like the game is changing under your feet. Even better, the new releases never "Replace" an old codex/army book like they do in 40k/fantasy. For example, there is NO chance that your Ironclad warjack you bought in 2003 will suddenly have it's rules change and become unplayable or less effective. This unfortuatly does sometimes happen in the GW world, when a new 'dex or army book hits the streets, whole army comp can change and a $300 army you built now needs to be re-thought.

In WM, your old stuff is always good. The only PROBLEM is that new stuff comes out and is tempting. Do you NEED it? Not usually, but it is just so cool and different you want to try it.

Also, WM kind of works like FoW with the whole timeline thing. They could "kill off" a major caster in the story and you could still play him. Because often you are playing 'at some point in the Iron Kingdoms' history anyway. Example: Epic Vlad is an older, more experienced version of the original Vlad. The model isn't really more powerful, it's just different. On Monday you might play a game with Epic Vlad, and on Friday you might decide to play with regular Vlad. All that is really happening is that you are playing during two different 'times' in the IK history, once when Vlad was young and once he was old.

Both casters are still good, eVlad doesn't replace regular Vlad, he's just another choice.

If this feels wierd, it's really just like FoW. You can play "Early War" "Mid War" or "Late War" and have different options. Well, because the IK universe advances, it is the same way. But you'll always be able to use the original models in tournies and everything, the new stuff is just new stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/05/05 20:53:42


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




So it trumps GWs fantasy background, which doesnt advance but includes dead characters from the past. Thats cool.

I do agree with the WFB comment about units becoming invalied, theres some issues of that with the new demons and as a beasts of chaos player i can sympathise.

Well this has cleared up a ton of stuff regarding warmachine, and i may well try it as a secondary game.

To slightly mis quote rapid fire:

''GW is my master caster blasta!!''

Keep up the great shows.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Just wanted to say good job on the new podcast, i enjoyed the Warmachine review. Pretty accurate overall in my opinion and just enough depth to give an idea of the game. Even the rapid fire segment is slowly growing on me. Also, on the episode with the battle report the sounds effects were hilarious (Borka made me laugh out loud at work) but they were overused in my opinion. Id be very interested in hearing another one. I will agree the one thing i dont like about Warmachine/Hordes is the relative lack of customization and im not talking wargear. In 40k/Fantasy I could completely alter the look of my army, make bizarre conversions/etc, and just use it as counts as. I miss that flexibility in Warmachine. Thus while my heart and majority of my free cash will go to PP a slice of it will go to GW as i make my 40k Ork Biker Gang. Again, nice job guys, look forward to the next one. Oh, and thanks for the mention
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Plano, Texas

Is there anychance we can get Craig's cool mission and terrain cards for 40k?


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Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Foda_Bett wrote:Is there anychance we can get Craig's cool mission and terrain cards for 40k?



I shall bring that up to him. You are not the first to ask. I know he's still refining them.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Plano, Texas

Sweet thanks Russ!
If it helps convince him any I'm kind of in the same boat as he is. Most people are burned out of 40k in my neck of the woods but I still love the game. I even started 2 Warmachine armies and 1 hordes armies because my friends have all moved into those game.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Nice use of O Fortuna in the opening. That's great geek (greak?) music.

Craig’s rapidfire seems to have slowed down a little and is a bit less overpronounced. I liked the overenunciation in the imitation. The drawn syllables seem to be cutting out except for the very beginning and the very end. I do love the “fluff miner whiner diner” and “feigning interest with a limp wrist” stuff Russ gets during this segment.

Let me add my voice to the chorus demanding scans or at least pictures of Craig’s cool cards.

Shadows Over Camelot is very popular at the game club at my school. There is the "each man for himself" early high school crowd, but the cooperative middle school crowd really love this game. The HS students seem to prefer it with a traitor, but the middle schoolers play it week after week without because it's usually close with them against the game.

Russ is not an idiot. He’s the evil overlord! He even mindtricked Rafe. His genre breakdown is pretty awful though. Russ should call what HE calls science fiction SCIENCE FANTASY. Science fantasy is Star Wars, Tron, and Star Trek. There’s plenty of magic happening in the “science” of these movies; the focus is on the relationships and cool visuals. Science fiction is more like Strange Days, Gattica, or the first half of 2001 – extrapolations of existing science or situations. YMMV (and Hollywood – the place, not the podcaster – seems to agree more with Russ) but Warmachine is FANTASY, Russ. AT-43 or VOR is more like science fiction. GW 40k is somewhere in the middle, with lots of “realistic” elements but also larger than life heroes with magic powers and psychic powers and warp demony things.

Bollywood needs to watch fewer infomercials. I had a laugh out loud moment with his canned question somewhere around minute 50 of the show.
Russ: It’s a game that focuses on resource management.
Rafe: What the heck do you mean by that? (my mind continues…) How can it slice up a tomato and still get my carpet this clean?
Russ: Well, what I mean by that is that the Warmachinerator lets you turn focus loose into your household appliances, allowing you to boost your vacuum’s power to hit and to remove.

Doesn’t Craig play the Trolls? Of course Craig’s ARMY wouldn’t shoot its own guys in the back of the head… But the Cryx would! I play Cygnar and Trolls, so my army wouldn’t shoot each other in the back of the head, but I can so see the Cryx and Skorne doing so, as well as the Mercenaries and the Legion.

I’m a bit frustrated with J. J. Abrams. I realized at the end of season 2 of Lost that he really just mixed in random elements and then figured out what they meant later. Why else would he bring in characters I hated, make me spend time with them, and then kill them off with a weak and hardly believable plot twist? I want my twenty hours of time back from season 2. I curse Craig, therefore, for making CLOVERFIELD sound more interesting than the reviews I read at the time it came out. I might enjoy renting the DVD and now I’ll probably try it. I just want to say here that it had better be as interesting, consistent, and satisfying as he made it sound!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Juan wrote:
Craig’s rapidfire seems to have slowed down a little and is a bit less overpronounced. I liked the overenunciation in the imitation. The drawn syllables seem to be cutting out except for the very beginning and the very end. I do love the “fluff miner whiner diner” and “feigning interest with a limp wrist” stuff Russ gets during this segment.


Well, we had to use a bit of "Podcast magic" this episode since we new Craig was going to be in Italy this time. So we actually recorded BOTH episode 5 & 6 rapid fires the same day. The problem with that was that was the day Craig was deathly ill, so if his normal pacing and excitment was a bit off, that was the reason.

Juan wrote:
Russ is not an idiot. He’s the evil overlord! He even mindtricked Rafe. His genre breakdown is pretty awful though. Russ should call what HE calls science fiction SCIENCE FANTASY. Science fantasy is Star Wars, Tron, and Star Trek. There’s plenty of magic happening in the “science” of these movies; the focus is on the relationships and cool visuals. Science fiction is more like Strange Days, Gattica, or the first half of 2001 – extrapolations of existing science or situations. YMMV (and Hollywood – the place, not the podcaster – seems to agree more with Russ) but Warmachine is FANTASY, Russ. AT-43 or VOR is more like science fiction. GW 40k is somewhere in the middle, with lots of “realistic” elements but also larger than life heroes with magic powers and psychic powers and warp demony things.


Hehe, well I have this discussion with friends a bit. "What is Sci-fi?" Is 20,000 leagues under the sea Sci-Fi? You can get into real argument with folks about Star Trek in particular, esp today it would be harder to classify Star Trek as Sci-fantasy today than it would, say, 20 years ago. But I really don't get into trying to sub divide the Sci-Fi genre. i.e. You don't go to a book store and ask for the "Science Fantasy" section vs the "Sci-Fi" section. It's all one section.

My only point about War Machine is that "Fantasy" games typically involve spears, bows and swords as your primary weapons, while in War Machine your primary weapons are cannons, guns, and giant walking robots. Which, despite the back drop, feels a bit more sci-fi than typical fantasy.

We should also note that although Craig sometimes implies that perhaps PP says their game is "Steam Punk" they actually don't claim that at all. The offical 'party line' from Privateer Press is that Warmachine is "Full Metal Fantasy".

My new party line is simply this: A game so cool it can't be classified!!!



 
   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

RussWakelin wrote:
My new party line is simply this: A game so cool it can't be classified!!!



Where's the *rollseyes* orkmoticon?!

Seriously, I enjoy the podcast, your gaming group sounds a lot like mine with the resident PP fanboy(s) vs the GW fanboy (me) so I definitely feel Craig's pain. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for Episode 7.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Ozymandias wrote:

Where's the *rollseyes* orkmoticon?!

Seriously, I enjoy the podcast, your gaming group sounds a lot like mine with the resident PP fanboy(s) vs the GW fanboy (me) so I definitely feel Craig's pain. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for Episode 7.

Ozymandias, King of Kings



It's there with the rest of 'em.

:S


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Just use Clint's avatar. Same difference. Kinda.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Hi, another great episode. I am intrigued by your review of Warmachine. It sounds like quite a good game & easy game system, & a great business model by PP.

I'm curious if it's acceptable in the general PP community to proxy PP figures with non-PP miniatures? I certainly don't want to have to get into buying & painting for yet another game when I might already have figures that could be substituted. Or at least could find non-PP figures that would be much cheaper that I could use instead.

As an example, I took the Warhammer Fantasy Beastman list, & built a Chaos Norse army from it, using historical Viking figures for Beastmen & giant werewolves for Minotaurs, etc. Our local Warhammer players are ok with this kind of proxying since they mostly play in the Indy tournaments, so don't worry about the GW-only figure policy.

Have you heard about this kind of thing being done within the PP fanbase? Or does it tend to be so "foaming at the mouth, falling over backwards" fanatical that I'd be rushed off to the PP equivalent of the Inquisition if I tried?

I'm eager to hear your review of Hordes since I'm probably more of a fantasy person than sci-fi. & am also interested to hear your comments on Shadows over Camelot. I picked that up a while ago, after plaing it a few times, but have yet to try out my own copy.

Keep up the great work, humor & info.

Thanks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/05/08 07:08:44


Remember, remember, the Dalek December
With Paris in ruins and London in ember
In times of the future when fears are abating
Don’t try to forget them, the Daleks are waiting
Quietly planning and scheming and hating… 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Oh yeah, twice during this episode, & at least once before, I've heard kind of a Windows shutting down chime or bong, & then another Windows opening up one. The 1st one in this episode was around the 1 hour mark. Is it your screen saver coming up, or maybe your battery power running out?

Remember, remember, the Dalek December
With Paris in ruins and London in ember
In times of the future when fears are abating
Don’t try to forget them, the Daleks are waiting
Quietly planning and scheming and hating… 
   
Made in au
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins






Down under

Black Cavalier wrote:Oh yeah, twice during this episode, & at least once before, I've heard kind of a Windows shutting down chime or bong, & then another Windows opening up one. The 1st one in this episode was around the 1 hour mark. Is it your screen saver coming up, or maybe your battery power running out?


Yeah ditto! It made me crap my pants here at work thinking my PC was going to shut down and I was going to lose all my work for some reason.

Hehe when it happened the second time I played the sound back and sure enough it was part of the podcast.

 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




i thought it was for when they all go off topic =P
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage






New Hampshire, USA

Black Cavalier wrote:I'm curious if it's acceptable in the general PP community to proxy PP figures with non-PP miniatures? I certainly don't want to have to get into buying & painting for yet another game when I might already have figures that could be substituted. Or at least could find non-PP figures that would be much cheaper that I could use instead.


Well, the PP community I'd say is about the same as the GW community on this one. The most important thing in WM is that your base size must be correct, and facing must be clear. Other than that, by the rules, what model you have on top of the base really doesn't matter. WM doesn't depend on the fuzzy "models eye view" mechanic as much as other games do.

That said, all PP tournies and events I've ever seen, either official or indy, require PP models. Also, although you CAN make due without the cards, you REALLY want the cards to play, which come with the models.


Note: The windows noise was an accident. It was my pesky screen saver.



 
   
 
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