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A friend of mine has decided she wants to get into 40k. This is mostly for the fun of modelling/painting, but she definitely intends to play and has limited funds so has asked me to come up with a relatively competative list before she wastes her money on models she won't end up using. She wants to play eldar and likes harlequins (conveniently!), jetbikes and war walkers, and is ambivalent toward everything else except wraithlords which she hates for some reason or other.

With my meagre knowledge of how Eldar works, and some research on dakka, this is what I've come up with -

HQ
Farseer - Singing Spear, Jetbike, Doom - 113

ELITE
6 X Harlequins - Kisses, Shadowseer - 162

6 X Harlequins - Kisses, Shadowseer - 162

6 X Harlequins - Kisses, Shadowseer - 162

TROOPS
3 X Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon, Warlock, Singing Spear, Embolden - 129

3 X Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon, Warlock, Singing Spear, Embolden - 129

3 X Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon, Warlock, Singing Spear, Embolden - 129

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon - 2 X Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field - 165

Falcon - 2 X Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field - 165

Falcon - 2 X Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field - 165

TOTAL - 1481

So obviously this is pretty cheesy, but is at least straightforward. The Warlocks speed around killing tanks and MCs, while the Harlies and Falcons speed around killing infantry. The Farseer can either go tank-hunting or Doom targets for the Harlies. My only worry is that perhaps it doesn't have enough anti-tank.

On the other hand, I could lose the Falcons in favour of War Walkers (reducing the cheesiness and adding a model my friend likes) and beef up the foot-slogging Harlie units. I'm not sure how to configure the War Walkers though.

Any help or opinons would be much appreciated.

The only problem I see is that you have no AT in the list except for the Warlocks with S.Spears.

It's easy to say that the Farseer/Warlocks are going to speed around doing things like killing MCs and Tanks, but you don't describe how.

Tri-falcon eldar with minimum troop choices usually in the form of 2 x 3-Guardian Jetbikes is a proven and time honored setup, what you've done here is neuter that in favor of putting some warlocks in the minimum manned squads and completely removing the massive high strength firepower of the falcons.

3 or 4-Man guardian jetbike squads are great at JSJing in 4th edition provided you have (in this case) at least 3 pieces of terrain to hide the unit behind (they have a large footprint). They only have a marginally harder time JSJing in 5th due to the changes to area terrain.

Generally for this reason, wasting the 50 some-odd points to put a warlock in such small squads is a bad move, that's why almost nobody does it. I guess in conclusion if you want to make the uber-optimized tri-falcon list... go with that. Don't go halfway on it though because it will only reek of poor execution and disappointment.

Also, remember with 5th about to hit shelves that the falcons will shoot even less than they do now, and that Hariles will not be quite as uber as they have been with rending only happening on the wound rolls.

Meph

The only problem I see is that you have no AT in the list except for the Warlocks with S.Spears.

Thanks for confirming that - any suggestions as to what to do about it?

Generally for this reason, wasting the 50 some-odd points to put a warlock in such small squads is a bad move, that's why almost nobody does it. I guess in conclusion if you want to make the uber-optimized tri-falcon list... go with that. Don't go halfway on it though because it will only reek of poor execution and disappointment.

As I said, it doesn't need to be uber-optimised. I just wanted to include harlequins since my friend likes the models. Having said that, what can I do about the list's problems so that it stays relatively competative, but contains the units my friend wants to field?

I don't think that list is nearly cheesy enough.



speaking of anti-tank, most people would take one squad of Fire Dragons. Especially since the harlies are backed up by Doom.

cerebaton wrote:

The only problem I see is that you have no AT in the list except for the Warlocks with S.Spears.

Thanks for confirming that - any suggestions as to what to do about it?

Generally for this reason, wasting the 50 some-odd points to put a warlock in such small squads is a bad move, that's why almost nobody does it. I guess in conclusion if you want to make the uber-optimized tri-falcon list... go with that. Don't go halfway on it though because it will only reek of poor execution and disappointment.

As I said, it doesn't need to be uber-optimised. I just wanted to include harlequins since my friend likes the models. Having said that, what can I do about the list's problems so that it stays relatively competative, but contains the units my friend wants to field?

Well, the points made about 5th in this thread are important to consider, tri-falcon is going to be a lot less than it once was in terms of "optimal" but will still probably rank in the top 10 builds for any armies of 40k. I think that fair warning is in order for your friend should he choose to continue. That being said... If you want to continue with the same theme you can drop the locks from the bike squad, give the falcons bright lances (combined with the pulsar you can put three S8/AP2 shots down rage per turn), give the falcons spirit stones (must have to keep them moving and keep them only getting glances), give the farseer runes of warding (aka runes of "feth your psykers"), and add a 4th 3man jetbike squad with shuricannon. Not a huuuge change, keeps with the jetbike theme you had going, but the addition of 3 bright lances will help with AV14 vehicles. This comes out to 1488 points total.

I really think you'd be better served going into a FLGS or GW that has a copy of the rulebook and working from there with a view to the rules changes... without going too off-topic there are quite a few changes worth considering: Wraithlord is the new falcon (or rather falcon was the new wraithlord when 4th hit, welcome back to 3rd edition wraithlord spam ;p), Pathfinders getting two chances to hit with AP1 (on the hit roll 5-6, and rend on 6 on the wound roll), No more IC protection, etc ad nauseam. If you don't have a store in your local area amenable to the task the rules changes can be found spread about on the intertubes.

Hope that helped a bit.
EDIT: NUMEROUS spelling mistakes fixed. Typing on the phone is full of fail.

Hey cerebaton. As a quick note. Perhaps the use of a squad of Pathfinders?
5 for 120p will swap out for a bike squad.
Plus she likes the models and they'll make a good base at the back to hold a rear objective maybe?
I haven't played Eldar though so could be all kinds of wrong.

zmc: I've followed the 5th edition changes pretty closely on the intertubes so I know what you mean. I'm quite happy to drop the falcons, but my friend (who henceforth will be Laura since that's her name and it's wierd for me to keep not calling her by it) doesn't like Wraithlords so they're out. In better news, Apone is right to say she does like Pathfinders, but I could do with some advice as to how to configure them.

Thanks for the comments so far guys.

Well you can only upgrade them to Pathfinders. NO more options, but they get the extra rules and pluses to saves and shooting etc. Which is ace.
But I really don't know if they'll be better than the bike squad they'd replace. I haven't studied the bike's and Warlock thing well enough, and they Pfinders may just weaken the plan by dilution.
But cool minis so probably up to Laura on that one. Variety of models is a bit more fun too I think.

Pathfinders are one of the few units that will still be fieldable in MSU for 5th edition. The category of what gives 4+ cover saves is 1/3 or more larger than the 4th edition equivalent (but the 3+ shrunk down to one entry if I remember correctly: bunkers) so pathfinders will be getting a 2+ cover save in the majority of situations... I want to say the only 5+ cover save terrain was fences, low walls, that sort of thing.

There are 6 ranger models in the current range: 5 that come in the boxed set, and one that is usually only available from direct order -- haven't seen a store stocking it in AGES which is called "Ranger, Kneeling Observing" and orders off the web page for $5.00 USD. They are very detailed models and a joy to paint, nice flowing robes and a good variety of helmetless, cloaked, and helmed heads. The rifles themselves follow the typical eldar weapon aesthetic.

I would recommend pathfinders over rangers every time if they are going to be your core troops choice. With their ability to ignore difficult terrain and run they don't suffer from some of the immobility issues that have afflicted rangers. Being able to scout is a plus as well. A unit of 6 is usually the largest I'd make them as they are more subject to the paucity of terrain if the squad size gets much larger.

Ok, revised the list to include more of the units Laura want to use.

HQ
Farseer - Jetbike, Singing Spear, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones

ELITES
8 X Harlequins - Kisses, Shadowseer

8 X Harlequins - Kisses, Shadowseer

TROOPS
3 X Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon

3 X Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon

7 X Pathfinders

7 X Pathfinders

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 X War Walkers - Eldar Missile Launchers

2 X War Walkers - Eldar Missile Launchers

2 X War Walkers - Eldar Missile Launchers

TOTAL - 1483

As a quick reminder, this is intended to be a relatively competative list for a player who's new to the game. Any comments and criticism much appreciated.

IMO, I think that the Warwalkers will soak all your opponent's AT fire at the start of the game, especially since they are the only highly visible threat... That's a lot of points to loose right off the start. There is no doubt that the army will look cool though.

Does anyone know how easy or difficult it is to get walkers cover saves in 5th? If you can just park them in area terrain and get a 4+, WWs may actually be quite a pain for the cost (they're cheaper than Oblits). I use a squad of 3 even in 4th and while fragile, I've found they don't melt away quite as easily as one may think.

Also, unless i'm mistaken, won't scouts be able to flank on the second turn in 5th? If so, the War Walkers can sneak on from the side of the board later in the game and go for rear armour.

I thought Infiltrators are the ones who can do things like that?

Ah yeah - you might be right. I'm sure I saw Scout and Flanking together in some 5th ed. rumour, but that might just be good old fashioned internet lies.

Any opinions on the list, t-C?

I think I prefer the original list for dedicating to fast delivery of Harley's backed up by heavy fire support.
In the second list their walking and the Walkers are still going to be vulnerable. I'll try and make a list that balances the two in a bit (two units of Harley's in two Falcons etc).
Hope the test painting is going well for her.

as far as i can remember scouts can come in from the sides in 5th.

i think you really need to put harlies in a transport for them to be most effective. its not so much about them getting shot (because they dont) but more that, even with run/fleet it will take a while for them to get into combat with most things that they want to be in combat with. the transport doesnt have to be a falcon. you can buy a wave serpent for something else but put the harlies in it in 5th. they are expensive, but you could put bright lances on it so it doubles up as anti-tank.

im not sure about the WWs. as much as flanking walkers appeals to me im not sure how much theyll do. wraith lords are better really so you may have to beat laura with sticks until she agrees.

otherwise there are always fireprisms. the models are quite nice and theyre pretty good. i dont have my eldar dex with me at the moment so i cant make any specific changes to the list but once i get my hands on it i will.

scouting pathfinders on to an objective with a 2+ cover save is pretty good. it will be hard for most armies to shoot them off and if they are assaulted you can counter charge with harlies.

as it stands the list may have trouble with horde armies (even with 12 EMLs), but then i think thats a common problem for eldar armies generally unless you run dire avengers. falcons or prisms would probably help.

Ok, I've had a go at a composite list for you.

HQ
Farseer, Singing Spear, Jetbike, Doom 113

Autarch, Jetbike, Laser Lance, Fusion gun 130

Elites
6 Harlequins, Kisses, 2 Fusion Pistol 152

6 Harlequins, Kisses, 2 Fusion Pistol 152

Troops
5 Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon 120

5 Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon 120

5 Pathifinders 120

Heavy Support

Falcon, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field 165

Falcon, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Field 165

2x War Walker, Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon 130


1367

***Edited for Noobishness*** I'll add some extra's to make the points up once I've thought bout it.
Hope this is any good to you.