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Oh, I completely stopped with the KS Comments after too many interactions with the "Adam can do no wrong" crowd. Pity.

I just poke in from time to time to see if Adam has anything to say, since he tended to post more in Comments than via Update.

RE: white knights, personally I think this stuff looks amazing, but it'll really depend on rules execution. If it turns out to be about as good as it looks, I won't give him that much gak about being obnoxiously slow.

If the game's anything less than solidly good, though, I expect all a huge amount of that good will will dry up and blow away, since it is insanely late and the dominant excuse has been perfectionism, which at that point would be ego tripping at most generous. Plus, you know, the price tag.

And if this game secretly turns out to be Myth but with good models (positively reviewed and flashy, but with clunky and poorly written/completely untested-feeling rules), I know I'll be seething mad and expect I won't be the only one.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
RE: white knights, personally I think this stuff looks amazing, but it'll really depend on rules execution. If it turns out to be about as good as it looks, I won't give him that much gak about being obnoxiously slow.

If the game's anything less than solidly good, though, I expect all a huge amount of that good will will dry up and blow away, since it is insanely late and the dominant excuse has been perfectionism, which at that point would be ego tripping at most generous. Plus, you know, the price tag.

And if this game secretly turns out to be Myth but with good models (positively reviewed and flashy, but with clunky and poorly written/completely untested-feeling rules), I know I'll be seething mad and expect I won't be the only one.

This pretty much sums up my feelings toward it.

I'm only in for the models, basically. If the games sucks, I won't mind. I might never play it.

During the KS, I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

As the rules and game components consumed ever more of the time to deliver, the expectation for the game portion increased as well. The hush hush of the game gives me some concern.

If we had just wanted (and gotten) models, Adam could have shipped that many months ago. I seem to recall that the resins were ready over a year ago, and I'm not so sure that the plastics were that far behind.

Anyhow, for how long I've waited, I sure hope the game portion justifies the additional delay.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

I got a shipping notification for my "small reward" today. It's been so long I can't even remember what I ordered.

I'm still on the fence whether I should just sell this stuff on ebay once It's all here. The near three year wait has meant I've long since lost all interet in the game. But I figure I'll wait until it's out in the world and maybe there's some demo videos up before deciding.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Your on the wrong forum, I think you want the official KS page...

I went in on models as well with the hope of a decent board game. It doesn't feel like a board game anymore. It feels like an even bigger commitment than D&D but with the luxury of not needing a DM and you can play by yourself.
I never liked the fact that more and more content was being added, but people on the official forum were eating it up, and Adam kept telling everyone it was not adding to the time frame, so he kept packing more and more in. It clearly grew the box to 17lbs and then it was crushing the card trays...

I have a feeling Im going to have alot of extra stuff that's not going to get touched that could have been left out of the core box.

I also think as your time line drags out you should be posting more updates not less. It seems you would wish to calm fears after your 2 years late rather than avoid everyone and their issues, talk about an update in July and then not deliver 2 months later.

.

Chopxsticks wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Your on the wrong forum, I think you want the official KS page...

I went in on models as well with the hope of a decent board game. It doesn't feel like a board game anymore. It feels like an even bigger commitment than D&D but with the luxury of not needing a DM and you can play by yourself.
I never liked the fact that more and more content was being added, but people on the official forum were eating it up, and Adam kept telling everyone it was not adding to the time frame, so he kept packing more and more in. It clearly grew the box to 17lbs and then it was crushing the card trays...

I have a feeling Im going to have alot of extra stuff that's not going to get touched that could have been left out of the core box.

I also think as your time line drags out you should be posting more updates not less. It seems you would wish to calm fears after your 2 years late rather than avoid everyone and their issues, talk about an update in July and then not deliver 2 months later.

Maybe not?

I was in this for the models AND the game - and it looks like both things are going to meet my expectations...

...I hope!

Given that KD:M is now shipping 2 Waves to each backer, Adam could have started shipping the resins and core models with the lightweight game as originally previewed over a year ago.

Expansions and stretch goal add-ons (both resin and plastic) would have started shipping 6 months ago.

As it is, the print bloat fills me with dread.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Agreed.

Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.

I backed primarily for the models. It was something like 95% plasti-crack and 5% a game to use it in.

We can't know that people backed only for the miniatures or only for the game or a combination of both. Obtaining that kind of Knowledge - notice the uppercase - is difficult. But as not much of the game had been revealed, then I'd think it safe to assume the models were a pretty big part of why people pledge. Not something we should assume in general, but in this case feels like a fair assessment. At least, I know I wouldn't have pledged if the models were styled similar to Privateer Press or Games Workshop lines, all else being equal.

At this point I'm equal parts excited for both miniatures and game, though. Really happy with this thus far.

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Agreed.

Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.

Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.

Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.

So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.

Chopxsticks wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Agreed.

Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.

Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.

Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.

So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.

Because there are lots of gamers who won't back just for the sake of models, they'll back because they have something they want to do (play) with the models (even if it isn't the game that a given KS is pushing).

We're in it for the game first, models second, so it will be interesting to see how well the game itself will deliver.

As Dentry said, nobody knows exactly why each of the five to seven thousand+ backers (don't forget the Black Friday people) gave their money to this project years in advance. You can make assumptions, but assumptions are exactly that and easily prone to being wrong. Pretending to speak for "the majority" is no different than going "I speak for Dakka when I say that..." which five seconds on this site would reveal as false due to the spectrum of opinion on any topic; there is no "backer hive-mind" where those who disagree with you are clearly some sort of heretical sect. Reality is a lot more nuanced.

I would have backed just for the models, but I would have not backed for anywhere near as *much* without a game to go with it. You can sift through tons of comments by people who only ordered items with game content and skipped everything else; clearly the game was just throwaway content to them? In actuality it may be, but you'd have to ask each of them. You'll also find plenty of examples of people who couldn't care about the game in the slightest and just want their models. If you look hard enough, there are also people who probably would have been content getting the rules (printing being dramatically faster than miniatures) and the models can show up whenever they want. While I personally find it hard to fathom that there were people who backed *solely* for the game content and plan on tossing the miniatures immediately, that is a possibility.

However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally. Such is the deal presented, and it's up to the individual to decide if it's worth it to them or not. Accepting the offering and providing funding gives you the right to complain about delays in a general sense, certainly, but I'm not sure it entitles anyone to complain that the project creator isn't catering to their preferences in how they fulfill things.

Chopxsticks wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think most of us backed almost entirely for the models, hoping for a relatively lightweight game engine to do something with them.

Please-oh-please make more generalizations and assumptions based on what you want. Pretty-please?

Agreed.

Getting pretty tired of these assumptions that people are backing anything with miniatures ONLY for the miniatures.

Why would you have backed primarily for the board game, that no one really knew anything about up until a few months ago... I would lean way more to the assumption side of miniatures on this one vs say Zombicide where they have a track record on board games already.

Also considering a HUGE portion of this KS was selling people Pinup models and out of stock resins.

So ya, assuming people backed this for the models is a pretty safe bet.

OOOORRRRR you were like me who wanted a game that reminded me of a delux version of Mordheim. Sexy models were a bonus sooooooo... yea. Points at assumptions.

The models were what prevented me from backing what looks to be a pretty great game :(

Krinsath wrote:However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally.

Nicely put. Just like the cable companies, not allowing me to cherry pick my ~7 channels.

Mymearan wrote:The models were what prevented me from backing what looks to be a pretty great game :(

It was the penis monsters, wasn't it?

I backed for a game that with my group played once a month maybe able to spill out over two years. I only picked those miniatures that had game content, so still was looking at adding to the game. I hope the AI concept works well enough for solo play as that too was part of my interest. I did not like the hush hush part of the rule set, but the playtesters were somewhat active on the forums and comments sections. Only time will tell.

I backed for what looked like a tabletop Monster Hunter with a dash of Berserk and Dark Souls.

I didn't know anything about the minis line when the KS ran.

Plus I was a bit more naive about KS at the time, and was lured in by nice art.

I backed for a chance to get some of the gorgeous models at far cheaper prices than what they had been available for before. As it went, the info about the game drew me in for more.

Regardless of why anyone backed, I'm confident that we'll be satisfied. The few kits that backers have received seem to be top quality, and those who played the demos at GenCon said that the game was fun to play.

My biggest problem is now that I've received some stuff, I want more.

Sucks that ebay is a major scalper's den when it comes to KD stuff.

Hopefully Poots gets a lot of this plastic in his store when the KS is all wrapped up.

I backed as soon as I saw the gameplay demos. the idea of a board game, mmo hybrid//dungeon crawler got me hooked. I dislike the pinup models but I won't state my opinion on those. The armor kits and being able to customize my survivors is what made this icing on the cake.

If I could of got a refund a year ago I would of due to communication alone, Adam Poots' communication is pathetic and the white knighting makes me sick. In the end as long as I get my pledge and the gameplay is fun I will be happy, I am sure I will easily make some of my money back selling a lot of the freebies I got.

My total pledge was every expansion sans the Tree and a Survivor pledge.

 Dentry wrote:

Krinsath wrote:However, that was the deal at the start, and is the package deal of most KickStarters. You are backing a project, and in the miniatures game space that project probably includes things you may not care to have or that add no value to you personally.

Nicely put. Just like the cable companies, not allowing me to cherry pick my ~7 channels.

Mymearan wrote:The models were what prevented me from backing what looks to be a pretty great game :(

It was the penis monsters, wasn't it?

That and the sexualized figures, yep. I really hope Adam does another game with a different esthetic but the same amazing sculpt and technical quality.

I backed 99% for the models, 1% for the artwork and hope of a good game. I was not bothered by the "sexy" pinups, nor the anatomic monsters.

Over the years, I don't think that has changed that much, simply because the game itself hasn't had a lot of detail until this past GenCon. Even then, the gaming previews were just a snippet of the overall campaign picture. On the models front, I am delighted with the big monsters, which is why I added them to my pledge - the few $ extra were totally worth it to see before adding. I'm also very happy with the look of the armor kits, although I am disappointed that Adam chose to add more weapon bitz and masks that will sit unused, instead of extra torso and legs that could make a 3rd male and/or 3rd female. Also the smooth backs are creepy, and I won't use them. I'd say I'm more like 90% models / 10% artwork & game today.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I backed 99% for the models, 1% for the artwork and hope of a good game. I was not bothered by the "sexy" pinups, nor the anatomic monsters.

Over the years, I don't think that has changed that much, simply because the game itself hasn't had a lot of detail until this past GenCon. Even then, the gaming previews were just a snippet of the overall campaign picture. On the models front, I am delighted with the big monsters, which is why I added them to my pledge - the few $ extra were totally worth it to see before adding. I'm also very happy with the look of the armor kits, although I am disappointed that Adam chose to add more weapon bitz and masks that will sit unused, instead of extra torso and legs that could make a 3rd male and/or 3rd female. Also the smooth backs are creepy, and I won't use them. I'd say I'm more like 90% models / 10% artwork & game today.

He said from the outset his goal was, effectively, to make Monster Hunter the board game. We may not have known specifics, but there was plenty regarding gameplay.

We get that you don't back games for the games. I think it's odd, but whatever shakes your tree.

Believe it or not, there ARE plenty of us that are backing for the whole package, INCLUDING the game.

I pledged for both the figs and the game. If there was no game i probably would have pledged for a lot fewer figs (likely just some of the pin-ups), but i know i would have still bought some.

For me it really was about a 50/50 split on desire for the figs and game. The reports from Gencon are promising, and the figs look every bit as nice as i had hoped.

Either way, at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel!

 Alpharius wrote:
[Maybe not?

I was in this for the models AND the game - and it looks like both things are going to meet my expectations...

...I hope!

Same here. The models are beautiful, and the game looks like it could be fun--maybe not for my board game club, but I still want to run a Dwarf Fortress style forum game where different people take turns at running the same settlement. And if it's the worst case scenario and it sucks, I can sell the whole lot off, and probably easily make my pledge back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chopxsticks wrote:
Does it surprise anyone? The forum is seething with white knights, its so annoying. You point out that Adams comments on making an update are rather hollow and everyone gets pissy.

Dude, if you want to talk about bad communications or communities, I backed the Exalted 3e Kickstarter, which is also set to beat out KD as the most ludicrously delayed one I've backed. Maybe that's numbed me.