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No you mistake what I said. People were getting angry about people using naked female characters for err....political reasons. I don't mind it but it's not something I feel the need to buy and I don't think I'd shame a person for having bought it.

I'd highly doubt many girls play warhammer in general so this might not be that big a deal anyway. There are only maybe 3 female painters at my local gw. I think the general consensus is female gw hobbyists are casual gamers usually if they do play. For that reason forum members which are female are pretty rare because casual players tend not to join the sites as much.

Funny story btw. I haven't seen many attractive gw gamer girls but there was one on a forum I was at once. She seemed to like me and was a nerdy, pervy, hot gamer girl. Talk about a unicorn. Also no I never gave her money and she never asked for it. She was probably a catfish but a friend reverse searched her image and found no other similar image. I messed up bad with her. I still kick myself over that whole incident but pretty gw girls that play every now and then and wear tank tops to attract the guys seem to be a thing. It has to be the attention they're going for.

Hopefully saying this is allowed. I'm not saying this is a problem. Most twilight fans are women and a lot of Harry potter fans are also women. Some hobbies have different demographics and maybe that's ok to have. I mean not everything has to appeal to everybody. As they say if you try to make everybody happy you end up making nobody happy.

Anyway sorry for my rant. Continue enjoying what you like. One cute girl I tried to date at one time which talks to me every so often now at the sandwich shop near the gw is a nerd and she likes vampire shows. It's a little silly to me but I'd never take that away from her and I still always thought she was cute.

--------

I'll trying getting back on topic for next post. I'm sorry.

Oh ok got it Sorry mate.
I'm getting like 100 messages saying how i am satan, i must like BDSM and gak, i'm a little pissed off right now, especially when GW has these very same models and i hate BDSM...

Its so crazy, they are ok with the murder, skinning of people, drugs, torture, and a nipper from GW, but as soon as nother company does it, BAM its "wrong" lol.


EDIT: Look at my profile, i just like the Coven style of aesthetics with mad doctors and a like. A daemon hunting for bodies to flay their skin is nothing new for GW and that is what the model is doing., very Coven like. And Vect like too as he has done that to his own Archons lol.

It's these stupid times we live in Amish. Sometimes I wish I could time travel back to the 90s or at least 2010 before people cried about everything being offensive.

I kind of want to make a tabletop game about biker gangs in hell as a middle finger to overly offended people on both sides of the aisle. Death in the game would be quick, gory, painful and people would quickly forget about you when you die (similar to gears of war or the old fallout games). It'll also be stated depending on the sins you do in hell they'll be added to your sins on earth so if you die in hell after sinning you come back in a much worse part of it.

The game will be about trying to take over hell from the devil originally. Each bike gang fights for territory and how bad they are depends on the player. I'm planning on doing some test games with 40k players at the local gw. We will play at a different game store obviously. I don't know if I'll get into details about sex slaves in the game but it will be implied. They will talk about other slaves though. If I had to say it'll probably be somewhere between 40k models and nude models. I want female models to be sexy but probably not like mega boobs and nips sticking out. There has to be a good middle ground. I really enjoy big boobs and I'm not gonna lie there but if I made female models for this game each boob should fit exactly into the hand of a character model. No more and no less.

Ugh I wanted to talk about dark eldar but now here we are.

Well that game sounds amazing if you ask me!

EDIT: Ok About DE, that model is my new Yncarne, tho i'll still bring the old Yncarne around in case someone gets mad its not a GW model.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well that game sounds amazing if you ask me!

EDIT: Ok About DE, that model is my new Yncarne, tho i'll still bring the old Yncarne around in case someone gets mad its not a GW model.

I have a bit of gameplay written already on that bike gang from hell thing. It's a bit hero centric but not entirely. They can buff and do some game changing stuff. I'll let you know more when I add a bunch more.

This is all provided I don't get heavily side tracked by dark souls 1 very soon. I'd have gladly played it tonight since I finally got home from Arizona but my internet cut off time meant my computer wouldn't download it in time and now I'm stuck in effing limbo doing....something until I can play it with an Xbox 360 controller like it's meant to be played.

--------

Anyway I'm gonna write a bunch of dark eldar lists with different army lists at some point. These lists will include 80 warriors with 16 shredders, 10 grotesques or more, dissie raiders with blaster warriors (If possible I might upgrade the raiders with dark lance instead) and other options. I might even try out mandrakes in some lists I write. It really depends on which list I'm happy with.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

I'm getting like 100 messages saying how i am satan, i must like BDSM and gak, i'm a little pissed off right now, especially when GW has these very same models and i hate BDSM...

Sorry to hear that. I find that sort of thing utterly ridiculous.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

EDIT: Look at my profile, i just like the Coven style of aesthetics with mad doctors and a like. A daemon hunting for bodies to flay their skin is nothing new for GW and that is what the model is doing., very Coven like. And Vect like too as he has done that to his own Archons lol.

Yeah, I really don't see the issue. It seems no worse than, say, the Corpse Cart in AoS. I know one of the corpses has tits but so does near enough the entire Slaanesh range - including the mounts.


Regarding the model, I actually wish it was slightly more mutated-looking. I'd like to have seen the corpses more merged-together somehow, rather than just kinda sitting in a heap.

Maybe something like the front image in this, but with multiple corpses merging:


Just something to imply that the corpses were actually being assimilated, like in The Thing.

I promise I'm not actually evil.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
No you mistake what I said. People were getting angry about people using naked female characters for err....political reasons. I don't mind it but it's not something I feel the need to buy and I don't think I'd shame a person for having bought it.

I'd highly doubt many girls play warhammer in general so this might not be that big a deal anyway. There are only maybe 3 female painters at my local gw. I think the general consensus is female gw hobbyists are casual gamers usually if they do play. For that reason forum members which are female are pretty rare because casual players tend not to join the sites as much.

Funny story btw. I haven't seen many attractive gw gamer girls but there was one on a forum I was at once. She seemed to like me and was a nerdy, pervy, hot gamer girl. Talk about a unicorn. Also no I never gave her money and she never asked for it. She was probably a catfish but a friend reverse searched her image and found no other similar image. I messed up bad with her. I still kick myself over that whole incident but pretty gw girls that play every now and then and wear tank tops to attract the guys seem to be a thing. It has to be the attention they're going for.

Hopefully saying this is allowed. I'm not saying this is a problem. Most twilight fans are women and a lot of Harry potter fans are also women. Some hobbies have different demographics and maybe that's ok to have. I mean not everything has to appeal to everybody. As they say if you try to make everybody happy you end up making nobody happy.

Anyway sorry for my rant. Continue enjoying what you like. One cute girl I tried to date at one time which talks to me every so often now at the sandwich shop near the gw is a nerd and she likes vampire shows. It's a little silly to me but I'd never take that away from her and I still always thought she was cute.

--------

I'll trying getting back on topic for next post. I'm sorry.

I'd argue attitudes like this are why female gamer stay away from forums.

I have no issue with the nudity on Slaneesh and Drukhari models, it fits the themes though I'd never use them myself. But this kind of gatekeeping boys club stuff needs to get in the bin. Girls are casuals, pretty girls that play just want attention, look at how they dress etc.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
No you mistake what I said. People were getting angry about people using naked female characters for err....political reasons. I don't mind it but it's not something I feel the need to buy and I don't think I'd shame a person for having bought it.

I'd highly doubt many girls play warhammer in general so this might not be that big a deal anyway. There are only maybe 3 female painters at my local gw. I think the general consensus is female gw hobbyists are casual gamers usually if they do play. For that reason forum members which are female are pretty rare because casual players tend not to join the sites as much.

Funny story btw. I haven't seen many attractive gw gamer girls but there was one on a forum I was at once. She seemed to like me and was a nerdy, pervy, hot gamer girl. Talk about a unicorn. Also no I never gave her money and she never asked for it. She was probably a catfish but a friend reverse searched her image and found no other similar image. I messed up bad with her. I still kick myself over that whole incident but pretty gw girls that play every now and then and wear tank tops to attract the guys seem to be a thing. It has to be the attention they're going for.

Hopefully saying this is allowed. I'm not saying this is a problem. Most twilight fans are women and a lot of Harry potter fans are also women. Some hobbies have different demographics and maybe that's ok to have. I mean not everything has to appeal to everybody. As they say if you try to make everybody happy you end up making nobody happy.

Anyway sorry for my rant. Continue enjoying what you like. One cute girl I tried to date at one time which talks to me every so often now at the sandwich shop near the gw is a nerd and she likes vampire shows. It's a little silly to me but I'd never take that away from her and I still always thought she was cute.

--------

I'll trying getting back on topic for next post. I'm sorry.

I'd argue attitudes like this are why female gamer stay away from forums.

Because of one post every million that they (presumably) consider mildly sexist?

I'm not saying the OP is necessarily correct about female 40k players (though i fear I lack any personal experience with such, as to the best of my recollection there haven't been any at the wargaming clubs I usually play at).

Rather, it seems strange to say that posts like this are what's keeping female gamers from frequenting forums, given that such posts are hardly the norm, let alone frequently enough that anyone visiting can expect to be subjected to them on any sort of consistent basis.

 vipoid wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
No you mistake what I said. People were getting angry about people using naked female characters for err....political reasons. I don't mind it but it's not something I feel the need to buy and I don't think I'd shame a person for having bought it.

I'd highly doubt many girls play warhammer in general so this might not be that big a deal anyway. There are only maybe 3 female painters at my local gw. I think the general consensus is female gw hobbyists are casual gamers usually if they do play. For that reason forum members which are female are pretty rare because casual players tend not to join the sites as much.

Funny story btw. I haven't seen many attractive gw gamer girls but there was one on a forum I was at once. She seemed to like me and was a nerdy, pervy, hot gamer girl. Talk about a unicorn. Also no I never gave her money and she never asked for it. She was probably a catfish but a friend reverse searched her image and found no other similar image. I messed up bad with her. I still kick myself over that whole incident but pretty gw girls that play every now and then and wear tank tops to attract the guys seem to be a thing. It has to be the attention they're going for.

Hopefully saying this is allowed. I'm not saying this is a problem. Most twilight fans are women and a lot of Harry potter fans are also women. Some hobbies have different demographics and maybe that's ok to have. I mean not everything has to appeal to everybody. As they say if you try to make everybody happy you end up making nobody happy.

Anyway sorry for my rant. Continue enjoying what you like. One cute girl I tried to date at one time which talks to me every so often now at the sandwich shop near the gw is a nerd and she likes vampire shows. It's a little silly to me but I'd never take that away from her and I still always thought she was cute.

--------

I'll trying getting back on topic for next post. I'm sorry.

I'd argue attitudes like this are why female gamer stay away from forums.

Because of one post every million that they (presumably) consider mildly sexist?

I'm not saying the OP is necessarily correct about female 40k players (though i fear I lack any personal experience with such, as to the best of my recollection there haven't been any at the wargaming clubs I usually play at).

Rather, it seems strange to say that posts like this are what's keeping female gamers from frequenting forums, given that such posts are hardly the norm, let alone frequently enough that anyone visiting can expect to be subjected to them on any sort of consistent basis.

It's the attitude behind posts like this that keeps women away from the hobby, not some innate male versus female preference for miniatures. Stuff like this makes it clear that men in the hobby look down on women, see them as fake gamers and only value them for their looks. No wonder they avoid nerdy pursuits.

Posts like this might not be the norm, but attitudes like that are all too common in the hobby.

IanVanCheese wrote:

It's the attitude behind posts like this that keeps women away from the hobby, not some innate male versus female preference for miniatures.

If you actually believe that then you clearly think far less of women than the poster you're so angry with.

 vipoid wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

It's the attitude behind posts like this that keeps women away from the hobby, not some innate male versus female preference for miniatures.

If you actually believe that then you clearly think far less of women than the poster you're so angry with.

What does that even mean?

edit: actually don't answer, we won't agree and lets not start a huge thread derail.

Very well, I won't answer. As you say, I doubt it will lead to a positive discussion.

In that case, to get us back onto topic, how are people finding the new Incubi?

Now that a decent amount of time has passed, do you think they were sufficiently improved by Phoenix Rising, or are they still somewhat lacklustre?

 vipoid wrote:
Very well, I won't answer. As you say, I doubt it will lead to a positive discussion.

In that case, to get us back onto topic, how are people finding the new Incubi?

Now that a decent amount of time has passed, do you think they were sufficiently improved by Phoenix Rising, or are they still somewhat lacklustre?

I've yet to see them on the board, but I can't tell if that's because they were locked up in an expensive box or because they just aren't much good. I suspect the latter though. I don't see what role they fill that can't be done better by other Drukhari units.

@IanVanCheese

Excuse me? I don't dislike female gamers. I actually tried dating a few. Honestly dude I think the real issue is people such as yourself have a victim complex. I say this because I used to have one. You have seen some legit forms of being a victim and suddenly you think everybody's trying to attack you or someone else even though they're not. I used to get bullied a ton when I was younger but often I would mistake people either mildly teasing me later or actually trying to compliment me as more bullying and because of that I got defensive and because some weren't even intending ill will I was the jerk. I mean how would you feel if you were trying to be nice to somebody that was depressed and then they insulted you and punched you in the nose. You might think "WOW what a jerk?! I was just trying to be nice to that guy! Well never again!" and then they'll start to hate you.

As far as your "question" i'm just saying men and women tend to like different things. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I might laugh at vampire shows and a lady working at the local sandwich shop made fun of the guys that came in from GW. She called us "the nerd herd". Where is your hobby of acceptance now when others still look down on us (and she was admittedly a friend of a GW player)? You see the thing is it doesn't really bother me because it's not that big of a deal. There was even a dude that rolled down his window of his car while driving and called us nerds for waiting outside the local GW.

As for women i'm not looking down on them. Sometimes i'm bummed they like different things. I only see someone as a fake gamer if they dress up in a ridiculously sexed up version of some fictional character and do it just for attention. You want women to be treated as fellow gamers right? Well doing that isn't gonna help.

 vipoid wrote:
Very well, I won't answer. As you say, I doubt it will lead to a positive discussion.

In that case, to get us back onto topic, how are people finding the new Incubi?

Now that a decent amount of time has passed, do you think they were sufficiently improved by Phoenix Rising, or are they still somewhat lacklustre?

Incubi are model-wise great, but game-wise not useful.

IanVanCheese wrote:

I've yet to see them on the board, but I can't tell if that's because they were locked up in an expensive box or because they just aren't much good. I suspect the latter though. I don't see what role they fill that can't be done better by other Drukhari units.

I'm inclined to agree.

Though I find myself wondering if part of the problem is our transports. It used to be that open-topped transports provided a bonus for assault units (that you could jump out of them and still assault in the same turn). Now though, there's 0 benefit for assault units being in open-topped transports. If I have a unit of Kabalites (or even Mandrakes) in a Venom/Raider, I can move it into position in my Movement phase and then they can immediately fire in my shooting phase. However, if I have a unit of Incubi in a Venom/Raider, I can move them into position... and that's it. They can't get out this turn, so my opponent gets an entire turn to respond - whether re-positioning to take his units out of charge range (meaning my Incubi either blunder across no-man's-land or spend another entire turn stuck in their transport), or else simply blowing the transport out of the sky.

And that's assuming I get to move my transports first. If a unit of Incubi have their transport shot out from under them whilst they're still on the deployment line then they might as well pack it in and go home there and then.

Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

The issue with incubi is they were a mercenary unit and they have good armor in a time when expensive units with good armor is a bad thing. Also they're strength 4 and cut through some armor which oddly means they're going up against grotesques which are just better. The only thing they have grotesques don't is they might be able to do more attacks but lack of durability is gonna be the end of them. Also i'd rather have a 5+ inv. save, str 5 (rather than 4) and 4 wounds and much higher toughness than an incubi that can have its save modified negatively.

*sigh* I'm wondering if I should've let that issue go in my last comment. I just don't like it when people insult me and make claims about my character without me being able to defend myself.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

Yeah there has been a lot of that. You can't change all the rules and not adjust the stats.

I think transports need a rework across the board to be honest. The only good ones are the ones that basically function as cheap gunboats too.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

Yeah there has been a lot of that. You can't change all the rules and not adjust the stats.

I think transports need a rework across the board to be honest. The only good ones are the ones that basically function as cheap gunboats too.

I wish they had those shooting helmets they had in Dawn Of War and then they benefitted from Kabal rules.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

Yeah there has been a lot of that. You can't change all the rules and not adjust the stats.

I think transports need a rework across the board to be honest. The only good ones are the ones that basically function as cheap gunboats too.

I wish they had those shooting helmets they had in Dawn Of War and then they benefitted from Kabal rules.

They had them in 40k too for a long time lol

I find the Incubi to be fun (mainly due to how nice the models are), but not great for the reasons already expressed.

I've been putting them in a Raider with my Archon, and at 14pts a model they are now a cheaper explosion insurance than a Lhamaean.

I've found Drazhar to be pretty great for his points, and so I take Incubi pretty much just because I'm fielding him. Overall, Mandrakes are still the better option, albeit not aesthetically.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

Yeah there has been a lot of that. You can't change all the rules and not adjust the stats.

I think transports need a rework across the board to be honest. The only good ones are the ones that basically function as cheap gunboats too.

I wish they had those shooting helmets they had in Dawn Of War and then they benefitted from Kabal rules.

They had them in 40k too for a long time lol

Yea and it was garbage it counted them as having a splinter pistol which back then was strength 3 not poison. It was basically a way to get them an extra attack with the old rules because apparently it was to much of a leap back then to just give them another attack on their profile

Back then you could give an archon a punisher or a tormentor helm among other things I won't mention

I don't think incubi are terrible now, as others have said already 8th edition just has too many rules working against assault while promoting shooting so your starting the race on one leg.

It also doesn't help that mandrakes out class them in every department

 Red Corsair wrote:
It also doesn't help that mandrakes out class them in every department

Well, I painted some up recently, and the crappy finecast aside, the Mandrakes look a bit teeny-tiny compared to even my Kabalites..

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Incubi are suffering from the "GW didn't understand how 8th work so its suck with 7th stats and points"

Yeah there has been a lot of that. You can't change all the rules and not adjust the stats.

I think transports need a rework across the board to be honest. The only good ones are the ones that basically function as cheap gunboats too.

I wish they had those shooting helmets they had in Dawn Of War and then they benefitted from Kabal rules.

They had them in 40k too for a long time lol

Yea and it was garbage it counted them as having a splinter pistol which back then was strength 3 not poison. It was basically a way to get them an extra attack with the old rules because apparently it was to much of a leap back then to just give them another attack on their profile

Back then you could give an archon a punisher or a tormentor helm among other things I won't mention

I don't think incubi are terrible now, as others have said already 8th edition just has too many rules working against assault while promoting shooting so your starting the race on one leg.

It also doesn't help that mandrakes out class them in every department

An Assault 1 6" range that can be used like a Pistol would be a cheap way to just make them slightly better, though it isn't a drastic fix.

I am running 15 Grotesques and I need help with how to get them places.

* I have 3 Raiders 5 in each, but i worry about rolling 1s after the Raiders blow up.

* Foot slogging 3 individual units

* Foot slog one big blob

* deepstrike via Raiders and Screaming Jets

* Deepstrike via Webway

I run 4 other Venoms in two battalions with Warriors and Wracks, (Wracks on the ground holding the line.

I am also running the Yncarne as I only own one Talos and two Wraithlords for any bigger than infantry models.

Its casual play, but I have been sufferring bad dice games for months and I need a list that compensates. :-)

PS - I really hate Deepstrike these days!

I used to always use Grotesques in Raiders (there was a formation for it back in 7th). However, in 8th I'm not keen on it. The transport rules mean you don't actually get much extra mobility and it also means you're not taking advantage of their durability.

If I was set on transports, I'd probably have 4 Grotesques and then a Lhamaean or Ur-Ghul (a cheap model to absorb a roll of 1 if the transport gets shot down).

My preferred option, though, is to simply footslog them, clustered around a Haemonculus.

It's not quite Raider speed but they're still moving 8+d6" on turn 1, and can also move as a formation. What's more, it means they're T6 from the get-go and can hopefully absorb quite a bit of fire from your opponent.

Don't ds with screaming jet raiders. I've done it before. Ds is at the very end of movement meaning it comes after your troops are allowed to leave transports so you have to wait till your next turn with 3 raiders in front of the enemys line doing nothing. Screaming jets should only be used for shooting units and even then I just don't know. It might be better just to start them on the board since our transports are so fast.

The worry of raiders blowing up is very real. For some reason when I ran blaster archons way back the archons would often roll a 1 and auto die. I think I rolled ones for both my archons once. Of course it's always better to run them to boost your ravagers but this was earlier in 8th before I got used to em.

Most of your other choices are good. Even transporting them with raiders is ok. It really depends what you want to do with your grotesques. If you foot slog them they are probably better for screening your units from incoming melee units and only if you have a lot of firepower going to the enemy. Using the webway or raiders is good against gun-line armies.

I foot slog 6 with a Heamy. They make it turn 3 or some times 2. That only works because I hit turn 1 with 12 Reavers.

Ok,

I looked over the footslog, but didn't like the interaction with them an the Yncarne which I am running in an 1800 point list.

I have been using my Wraithblades as Grotesques because its so hard to find them for a reasonable price.

Now I am running 10 Wraithblades with Yncarne in a Ynarri Supreme Command detachment. I think they can footslog better with the Yncarne and two Warlock Skyrunners than Grotesques......I hope.

Yncarne must survive and not just teleport all over... :-)