Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, I've ordered the Tau Interception Force from GW which includes nine crisis suits. At the same time I ordered a commander. I've got two suits already, one Fireknife and one Firestorm and I also have O'shaserra. I'm thinking about doing two more Fireknife and two more Firestorm along with three Sunforge. I'm not sure how I want to configure the commander because I don't know how the special issue weapons work in combat and I'm not sure how to configure the other two (they will be his bodyguards).

Anyone have any suggestions?

This would fit better in Tactics. Sending it there for better feedback!

Um...ok. Sorry for putting this in the wrong place but do you have any advice?

Fireknifes all the way IMO.

Plasma Rifles.

FireKnives are a pretty safe bet, but for some real MEQ hurt, go with a Fusion Blaster. That's the last time my friend tries to flank me with a squad of Destroyers...

Others:
- CIB might not be worth it anymore with the rending nerf.
- AFP's look pretty decent if you know you're facing horde armies, and with the large blast template, you're bound to hit something.
- Flamers kill things that your firewarriors should be targetting in the first place...and it's almost never a good thing for your suits to be that close to the enemy in the first place.
- Burst Cannons are best left to your stealth suits, again they're just stronger pulse rifles

Another configuration worth looking at is the deathrain one, I normally run a few suits like that.

Shas'ui w/ Twin-linked Missile Pods and Target Array...53 points well spent.

Yeah, I was leaning between Deathrain and Helios, more towards Deathrain though, I figure my Sunforge would be able to handle anything I'd throught the Helios at.

I do face a 'nid swarm army a lot (friend o' mine) so I'll probably take the AFP. Anyone used both AFP and CIB together on the same suit? I'm curious to know how that would work.

orchewer wrote:
- CIB might not be worth it anymore with the rending nerf.

CIB was never rending. Its functionality is unchanged. In fact, against troops the rending nerf brings those weapons inline with the CIB.

I have 2 variants i like to use:

Missile Pods and Plasma rifles.

These are nice if you're facing MEQ armies.
The added AP2 of the Plasma rifles is good especially if you run into termies (or 2+ save NID creatures)
and you can stand back and shoot from range.


Plasma Rifles and Flamers

These are pretty good if you plan to get in close (flamers are great in 5th edition IMO, because of the rampant cover saves)
I like to have broadsides and Hammerheads to take out enemy vehicles if so, i'll run this variant.

I usually upgrade each squad with a leader and put the AFP or CIB (mainly for the coolness of having the unique weapons, not any real advantage)

But getting some ranged AP2 is essential to a good tau force.

Missile pods and plasma id say too, unless you are building a designer list against something you know beforehand.

I mainly play 'nids, SM and Necrons (the three other guys deployed with me who game). The 'nids are a standard swarm and I've been playing him the longest. SM is basically a White Scar army and the guy w/ the Necrons has been playing for a long time bu tis new to Necrons.

orchewer wrote:Plasma Rifles.

FireKnives are a pretty safe bet, but for some real MEQ hurt, go with a Fusion Blaster. That's the last time my friend tries to flank me with a squad of Destroyers...

Others:
- CIB might not be worth it anymore with the rending nerf.
- AFP's look pretty decent if you know you're facing horde armies, and with the large blast template, you're bound to hit something.
- Flamers kill things that your firewarriors should be targetting in the first place...and it's almost never a good thing for your suits to be that close to the enemy in the first place.
- Burst Cannons are best left to your stealth suits, again they're just stronger pulse rifles

Another configuration worth looking at is the deathrain one, I normally run a few suits like that.

Shas'ui w/ Twin-linked Missile Pods and Target Array...53 points well spent.

Seconded on all points.

I tend to run with a couple of Shas'els with plasma rifle and missile pod and bodyguard with the same loadout. Its cheaper to run a shas'el with a targetting array than it is to run a fully tooled up Shas'o. I reckon plasma rifles and missile pods are the best all-round support weapons in the Tau army and you really need to include a couple of squads of fireknives to make up for the lack of squad based special weapons.

For long range fire support you can't beat 2 deathrains with targetting arrays. 106 points of missile pod based love

If you have a few points left over (and a spare elites slot) and you know lots of vehicles are on the way then twin linked fusion blasters can also make a good impression for the same price as the deathrains (including targetting array). Deepstrike them in and you don't need to kill many tanks to make their points back. Just the knowledge that they are in reserve will have a big effect on your opponents strategy. If you can combine this with Railheads or broadsides as a frontal threat then it leaves the enemy with very few places to hide their tanks

Hmm.. does anyone know if the old "last man standing" rule is still in 5th ed? It was always the most annoying bit about fielding Crisis teams considering the low model count.

Rosicrucian wrote:
CIB was never rending. Its functionality is unchanged. In fact, against troops the rending nerf brings those weapons inline with the CIB.

Right, my bad.
Point being, an assault 5 hellgun isn't the best thing you could be putting on your suits.

Flinty:
I love the twin-linked fusion blaster. Every game my suicide-bomber crisis suit makes its points back.

I think you'll see more cover saves and close in opponents in 5th so I suggest you consider a BC/MP combo. Mathhammer has them coming out to be about the same number of kills as fireknife outside of 12".

I'd run these unless you really want stealth suits

1 Fire knife
1 Death rain
1 BC/MP

You may find it more effective to move the fire knife to a bodyguard slot which opens the the third elite slot for stealth suits.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I think you'll see more cover saves and close in opponents in 5th so I suggest you consider a BC/MP combo. Mathhammer has them coming out to be about the same number of kills as fireknife outside of 12".

I don't agree. I reckon that the maneuverability of crisis suits means that it should be relatively easy to counter cover and/or obscuring saves.

Against Tau other forces will more than likely attempt to close into CC to counter the shootiness of the army and hence I think there will always be a good case to keep some low AP weapons around to toast the heavy infantry as it closes in the open.

Additionally there are lots of other ways of getting burst cannon into the army. Best to keep the Crisis weapons slots for something a bit more special. I still maintain that if you want to use BCs then field Stealthsuits instead of Crisis.

Will keep saying that burst cannons belong on Stealth suits. However, I can see the usefulness of the BC/ML combination against Orks or Tyranids, more so Orks.

Flinty wrote:Additionally there are lots of other ways of getting burst cannon into the army. Best to keep the Crisis weapons slots for something a bit more special. I still maintain that if you want to use BCs then field Stealthsuits instead of Crisis.

orchewer wrote:Will keep saying that burst cannons belong on Stealth suits. However, I can see the usefulness of the BC/ML combination against Orks or Tyranids, more so Orks.

Consider that 5 Stealth suits and 3 BC/MP/MT Crisis Suits both cost 150 pts. The stealths get you 15 S5 AP5 shots, the crisis team gets you 9 S5 AP5 shots and 6 S7 AP4 shot. 15 shots in either case. Now the Stealths get you infiltrate and stealth of course, but to use the cannons you'll generally be moving close enough that your stealth protection decreases to about the equivalent of an additional 4 or 5+ save. The Crisis suits on the other hand can start engaging at longer range and have the ability to take on light vehicles. Crisis Suits are a bit more survivable against small arms fire being T4 and having 6 wounds in the squad whereas Stealths can better weather S8 fire since they are 5 seperate models. Each has pros and cons, but I'd say that its not cut and dried that Stealths are always a better anti-infantry platform than crisis suits.

The correct answer to this thread topic however, is to magnetize your suits. The magnets are cheap and that way you'll never be stuck with a configuration you don't want and you'll be "future proofing" your suits against new codexes and editions.

Rosicrucian wrote:
Consider that 5 Stealth suits and 3 BC/MP/MT Crisis Suits both cost 150 pts. The stealths get you 15 S5 AP5 shots, the crisis team gets you 9 S5 AP5 shots and 6 S7 AP4 shot. 15 shots in either case.

That's a fair point.

Rosicrucian wrote:
Now the Stealths get you infiltrate and stealth of course, but to use the cannons you'll generally be moving close enough that your stealth protection decreases to about the equivalent of an additional 4 or 5+ save. The Crisis suits on the other hand can start engaging at longer range and have the ability to take on light vehicles.

I reckon that pulse weapons are pretty reasonable light vehicle hunters anyway so I don't think that title goes solely to the missile pods (although they are somewhat more effective in the role). I think my main issue with Crisis Suits with Burst Cannon is that almost every other model in the army is already armed with an equivalent. Crisis suits are supposed to make up for the lack of special weapons in fire warrior squads and plasma weapons are almost universally regarded as the best special weapons around.

Additionally I think that a BC/MP armed suit lacks focus. The combination of one of the shortest ranged weapons in the Tau armoury with one of the longest doesn't sit well with me. If you want long range support, go with deathrains and leave the anti-infantry role to other units.

Rosicrucian wrote:
Crisis Suits are a bit more survivable against small arms fire being T4 and having 6 wounds in the squad whereas Stealths can better weather S8 fire since they are 5 seperate models. Each has pros and cons, but I'd say that its not cut and dried that Stealths are always a better anti-infantry platform than crisis suits.

That is also a fair point but i think i prefer my special forces to be armed with special weapons (also I have tried running BC/MP suits before and they haven't done very well)

Rosicrucian wrote:
The correct answer to this thread topic however, is to magnetize your suits. The magnets are cheap and that way you'll never be stuck with a configuration you don't want and you'll be "future proofing" your suits against new codexes and editions.

hehehe... agreed. magnetize the things and you can play a few games and go with whatever appeals most.

As I said before, the BC/MP is more useful in 5th edition. I agree that in 4th one should leave the burst cannons to stealth or vehicles. However, unless one moves one's vehicles less than 6" one isn't going to use the burst cannons much.

I also agree that the superior range of the plasma rifle and its AP are an advantage over the burst cannon. However, with the changes to movement, flanking, true LoS and the cover save afforded by intervening units, I think the plasma rifle's utility will be taking a slight hit.

If one has many markerlights and will be using them to boost BS rather than removing cover saves, the plasma rifle remains a good choice. I don't plan on using a lot of markerlights however.

I'm going to rely on quantity of shots over boosting a smaller number of high S/ low AP weapons for a while and see how that works. I don't always face MEqs so for me, the BC/MP on the elites seem better for removing the popcorn.

YMMV.

Thanks everyone for the great advice! Not too sure I can get magnets out here but it's worth looking into.
My commander will probably be a Shas'el w/ TA, AFP and BC...probably do two body guards w/ Firestorm...
3 fireknives...
3 sunforge...
and 3 Deathrain for the last squad.

Google for "rare earth magnets". You can get exceedingly small ones of about 3x3x1mm that you can hide easily.

Prices vary but if you go to an industrial outlet type place then you can usually get a couple of hundred for about £30

http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/D0301.html They are a US supplier and they should be able to ship out to any military bases. 6 cents per magnets, goes down to 5 cents if you get a 100. Very fast shipping. total cost is under $10 for 100.

I use them on all my crisis suits and to magnetize the doors on the fish and HH - that way I can put my gun drones/SMS pods inside for extra protection while traveling. I also magnetized the railguns and ion cannons.

I think for 5th edition the BC/MP combo might be better for an all-comers list in at least one squad of crisis. Make the squad leader a 'vre and give him the ABF for some ork/nid horde killing along with a BC. But I'd make the second squad a fireknife squad for when you run into termies. While mathhammer supports BC/MP getting as many kills over 12" as a FK, my opponents always seem to make their saves - when you really really really want someone dead, use AP2 plasma. Target smaller squads with the FK suits and hit large ones with the BC/MP (sorry, blanked on the name).

A squad of stealths would be good in 5th ed. Use them to out-flank and bring them in on a weak edge vs non-MEQ troops. Even MEQ's will take some hits vs that many BCs.

BC/MP would be "firestorm"(advanced Tau Tactica)

I play mostly against Marines, Necrons, and Eldar so I always have a use for an extra AP2 in my army, but the BC/MP isn't looking to shabby against other armies.

Hey guys, sorry if this is a bit of a newbish question, but I"m considering starting a Tau Army. Would one of you mind explaining the diffrent weapon configurations for the "Fireknife" "Deathrain" and other Suits? If so I would really apperciate it.

Also, Budro, that Magnet site you gave is pretty awesome, really apperciate it.

Sasori wrote:Hey guys, sorry if this is a bit of a newbish question, but I"m considering starting a Tau Army. Would one of you mind explaining the diffrent weapon configurations for the "Fireknife" "Deathrain" and other Suits? If so I would really apperciate it.

See here: http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9754

Here's one thing to consider about Crisis suit set-ups: If every member of your squad has a different configuration (say, one FK Team Leader, one FK, one something else), then they are all non-identical in game terms, so their wounds get tracked separately. Which means the squad could carry around 3 wounds with it before it starts taking casualties. Could be a useful thing for letting them take a little more punishment while returning fire (which they'll do since they can't just be plopped behind area terrain anymore and be out of LOS).

Fireknife is necessary because it fills the huge gap in Tau technology between S5 and S10 weapons.

Fusion blasters help too, but you need to get in close, but it is good for 3 Ap2 shots with plasma.

The other weapons burst cannon, can be found elsewhere and flamers which you have to get dangerously close to use, and you can bypass cover saves well enough with markerlights.

I like to use a mixture of weaponry for fun, but you need to focus the majority of your suits as Fireknife.

Orlanth: So you haven't had any issues with the plethora of 4+ cover saves in 5th edition games? A 50% reduction in removing casualties from fireknives lead me to believe quantity is more important than quality in suit configs, especially with people running and outflanking Tau more often.

So far in playing around with 5th edition, even with the 4+ save I'm still playing heavy, heavy on the fireknife. (as opposed to, I guess, burst/missile) Things that scare me or I can't deal with without plasma:

Large scoring squads of plague marines (yay AP2! FNP that biotch!)

The 2+ winged hive tyrant

Multiple flying Daemon Princes (yes there are other ways to deal with them but Crisis are the most mobile

Rhino or Chimera rushes (seriously, vehicles are such a pain to kill en mass now - deathrain would be better here sure but that is not the comparison)

The cover saves are annoying, but crisis suits are mobile enough that you can mitigate them, and a little markerlight support goes a long way. And sometimes you really just have to kill something big and scary. Admittedly, close combat isn't as bad as it used to be - in 4ed, certian fast units hitting your lines could cripple your army if you got even a little unlucky with when combat ended - but I still think there will be enough threats that are worth pumping plasma into over say burst cannon fire. A lot of the stuff you'll be hitting gets a 5+ invulnerable anyway so having that turned into a 4+ isn't the end of the world.

Now, having written this, I'm not convinced that my fireknife all day every day is better in this edition than more specialized units. A couple Plasma/Fusion squads and then a bunch of deathrains (maybe with the HQs as fireknives) may be best now. I find my Crisis suits difficult to hide. People say "put them behind your landed vehicles" but based on the wording of the line of sight rules I find their legs exposed if I play with 3 man squads, or I find my opponent placing blast markers on the tanks they're hiding behind and hoping for the right scatter. Maybe if I had 4 tanks I could hide all these guys, but normally at least one squad is getting shot at and it is annoying. So I may be playing squads that want to get close, wreak havoc and die instead of ones that sit back and die anyway.

thanks lambadomy. I am not saying remove fireknives, I just think they'd be better used in the HQ slot where ML and TA upgrades can make them hit more often.

I doubt I'll ever field an army without death rains, but the BC/MP seems more attractive to me as an elite squad that removes the screening units that my FCW can't get either because they are riding or engaged in HTH.

Yeah, I understand. I just end up playing with 6+ fireknives so I need to jam them in as many slots as possible. But then again it all depends on the points level of the game, I've been playing a lot of 2000 point games.

I've also started trying to jam more and more markerlights into the lists to deal with the cover saves. Multiple sniper drone teams, every FW squad with a markerlight, and with the new Relentless rule jamming marker drones into stealth or even crisis squads since marker drones can now JSJ their markerlights.

I also admittedly have yet to play someone who has checkerboarded their units for the self-generating cover save.