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I have a small question that I would like to ask, and I believe this forum was the best for it. Many times while reading this and other 40k forums, I see people complaining about the many different SM chapters, and how they make up the bulk of 40k armies. Granted this isn't completely the case, but it is undeniable that GW has produced more Codexes for SM chapters that for other 40k races.

My question is simply this, do you include GK and SoB when speaking about all the different SM codexes and chapters. How about CSM? I know in the fluff that GK actually are only another chapter. However, as they exist not in a spin off codex as BT and DA do, but rather in Codex: Daemon Hunters, do you include them. Same for SoB. I know that in the fluff they are their own organization, but gamewise, they are Power Armer, Bolter toting women, that use the same equipment as SM (give or take afew items).

Personally, I do not think of them that way, as they seem to be much further from regular marines than chapters such as BT. I am simply curious though what the general consensus is.

Power armor and boltguns doth not a Space Marine make.

SOB's and GK's are variant enough for me to not include them in consideration for SM status.

CSM as well, due to the variance they display.

Agreed. When I think of Space Marines, I think of Space Marines.

Or, rather, SPASE MARINZ! HURR!

There's a difference between MEQ and 'Space Marine Chapters'.

GK aren't Space Marines, they don't get preds or Rhinos. duh.

When I think of "Space Marines", I think of loyalists (more or less) following C: SM, including BA and DA.

When I think of "MEQ", then we add CSM, BT, GK, SW, and Necrons.

Yes, BT, GK and SW are loyalists, but they're not *really* structured like SM, so they're something different. More like CSM in many ways.

I feel that, despite their variances, BT and SW are just are much SM as BA and DA. When I think "Spaces Marines", I think the Loyal 1st Founding, Successors, and following Loyalist Foundings. Though GK and SoB are Imperials in Power Armor, their purpose, structure and deployments are too much different, in-game and fluffwise, to be considered Space Marines. Plus SoBs have vaginas, duh!

Edit: And based on how kick ass GK actually are, they have functioning dangly parts because they frequently f*ck up daemons. In conclusion, GK and SoB could not be considered "Space Marines" based solely on the fact that they are not neutered. jk

You guys... GK ARE space marines. They HAVE a gene-seed, they have the same genetic modifications, they just have different equipment. And last time i checked it was the gene-seed that made a space marine. And besides the GK were derived from one of the chapters "expunged from record" (check the current SM codex for the 1st founding chart)

They undergo much more severe psy conditioning, and (if GK fluff is true) their gene-seed is taken from the Emperor or similarly pure source, as opposed to Space Marines which derive from a Primarch source. SoB undergo similar surgeries and enhancemets with the exception of the black carapace and gene-seed. Battle Sisters are Battle Sisters as Grey Knights are Grey Knights. Just as it is NOT the equipment that makes a Space Marine (power armor and bolters), it is NOT the surgery. It is the dogma, organization and operation of the force, in a fluff sense. Huuurrr!

I checked GK/SOB/CSM. They are Even-knightlier-marines, girl marines (even though people STILL want to slap boobs on dark angels), and spiky marines.

All marines, all the time.

When I think of SM's, after saying the obligatory HURR, my mind wanders to loyalist chapters.

I don't think of GKs or SoBs. CSMs are/were different to Loyalists as well.

BYE

Red_Lives wrote:You guys... GK ARE space marines. They HAVE a gene-seed, they have the same genetic modifications, they just have different equipment. And last time i checked it was the gene-seed that made a space marine. And besides the GK were derived from one of the chapters "expunged from record" (check the current SM codex for the 1st founding chart)

yeah but what about Rhinos. And Landspeeders. And Flying Marines and Marines that Drive Bikes.

huh?

and what's with the weird guys. Hellguns? Power-stakes? Combo-grenade launchers? Psyc-out grenades? eh?

When I think of Marines (not MEQ's) I don't think of Sisters, I don't think of CSM (except maybe Red Corsairs) I think of The Loyalist First Founding Legions & their successors in subsequent Foundings (which would include GK's as I think their 13th founding, 2nd founding or 3rd founding depending on which GW guys doing the fluff this week)

IMHO GK are still marines. Just Marines who do a slightly different job - Marine specialists, so to speak.

GK's, loyalist marines, the Big 4, and Chaos marines from V5 all are one bunch in my book. They look the same, play the same, act the same, and die the same
Indeed I've seen the concept of furgle boys with multiple vindicators originally played with a loyalist list and dropping dreads for some time.

The chicks with sticks are different enough witht their vows, short range focus and Imperial S/T to rank separately.

When I think of spase marienz (hurr!) I think of loyalists. CSM should be totally different. They're supposed to have all kinds of daemonic stuff and totally non-codex equipment, organization, tactics, etc. They should have all kinds of cultists and mutants and crazy units (I'm talking Witchhunter Circus Army times infinity crazy). Unfortunately the latest CSM codex is a steaming turd so they don't. Instead we get CSM = SM + defiler + crappy daemons + cult marines - sh!t-ton of special rules (hurr!).

when I think of Space Marines, I think of the loyalist chapters.

grey knights are considerably different than their Loyalist counterparts.

sisters of battle are so much different it's not even worth comparing. they wear power armor and carry bolters, after that, what's the same?

and chaos space marines are definately different. although they once were space marines, they are no longer that way.. and their ability to take "marks" is enough difference to squelch any comparison.