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What is your opinion and how do you think the other players would react to having only a representative handful of models in a squad (perhaps about 50% of the models) showing the upgrades every model in the squad has?

E.g adrenal glands on Tyranids but only 50% of the squad shows the upgrade...

Also what Biomorphs need to be shown on Tyranids and which dont?

Back in third edition, the ruling used to be that 75% of th models had to have the correct equipment, and that's the number I still stick to. I don't know if it's been udated, but I would assume it would have stayed at least at 75% to avoid confusion.

Depends on the wargear, but for the most part I think you'd have no problems from me as long as you told me they all had the upgrade.

As fr the Nids, though I dont play them, I would have no problems with just a few of those tiny glands being on them. My opinion on Nid upgrades is simply: Large things like claws = please show, minor things like glands = who cares?

Yeh, I think you still have to show the glands so your opponent can see what he is fighting & "not forget, or get confused".

But you would really say who cares to the tiny little details that could change a squad from "easy targets to chop up" to a most likely losing proposition if you charged them?

so 1 guy says 75%
1 guy says don't worry about little details.

I make an effort to have EVERY model in an RTT/GT army WYSIWYG. I do not see any excuse for non-WYSIWYG on regular models that have the bitz available. character modles can be tricky and I see no problem in a little more leeway, as long as you are very clear in explaining it to your opponent.

Greebynog wrote:Back in third edition, the ruling used to be that 75% of th models had to have the correct equipment,

I don’t recall having ever seen that rule.

WYSIWYG has always meant just that: What you see is what you get.

The way different people or events choose to apply it varies, though.


From my experience, so long as the end result is clear as to what it’s supposed to be, and not confusing for your opponent, most players don’t really care what you do. Just make sure that you explain anything odd before the game starts, to ensure that your opponent understands what he’s playing against.

I personally prefer obvious things to be clearly modelled (so a model with a Lascannon actually has a lascannon, for example) but am more than happy for your Genestealer mob with the single Feeder Tendril head to represent a brood all with the biomorph, since it's an all or nobody upgrade anyway.



In a tournament applying strict WYSIWYG, though, you would obviously have to have everything modelled as closely as possible to their actual list entry.

The rule I quoted may have been an unofficial thing, but it was definitley GW sanctioned, ie. in white dwarf at least. It was intended (and only used) for things like orks that had a lot of variety to the models. Like when ork boyz are modelled with two sluggas, or a double-handed axe.

I definitely wouldn't worry about tiny biomorphs, most people have no idea what they look lke anyway, as long as your intention is not to confuse players for an advantage (which yours clearly isn't) it'll be fine.

This is a tricky thing to get strict on, because it's very hard to tell somebody that they have to have Feeder Tendrils on every single Genestealer that has it. Especially now that the bitz services are hamstrung/gone.

My hope is that one model with Feeder Tendrils per squad is enough, so long as he stays on the table with the squad, and it's made clear at the start of the game. Especially since I painted my Stealers some time ago, and they just recently made Feeder Tendrils great.

I don't know of any Tyranid players who actually model all the little implants on their models.

To be honest unless I pick up one of those gaunts and INSPECT it, I'd never notice the presence or absence of adrenal glands and such. As long as I know they're there, I'm fine. I'd much rather know which gaunts are S4 I5 hormagaunts and which are regular plain jane ones.

Same for grenades.

In 3rd Edition, the formal requirement was WYSIWYG without exception, so all models would be modeled with Adrenal Glands.

If you have the Adrenal glands up front, and remove non-Adrenal models first, that'll do just fine.

Whats lame is that a box of genestealer's doesn't come with enough feeder tendrils >.<

Darrian13 wrote:I make an effort to have EVERY model in an RTT/GT army WYSIWYG. I do not see any excuse for non-WYSIWYG on regular models that have the bitz available. character modles can be tricky and I see no problem in a little more leeway, as long as you are very clear in explaining it to your opponent.

I'll give quite a bit of allowance on how a player models his nid squads. In some cases, while the bit is available, you get two of the bit for every 8 models. If for example a player has a generstealer squad, at least some of the models have the bit on them, the squad is easily distinguished from a different squad, and he states before the game what is what, then I wouldn't have a problem. He's done what he reasonably could to make things clear.

It is nice though, when you see a player that has gone all the way to model, sculpt, exactly what biomorphs they have. Usually gets a bonus from me for either sports or painting.

I almost always throw in a shoota boy or two into my slugga mobs for variety. I've no problem with others doing something similar. As long as you tell me what the model has and it doesn't change throughout the battle I don't mind.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:I don't know of any Tyranid players who actually model all the little implants on their models.

I hate how they look.

You get a copy of my army list.

I always tell my opponent what every single thing in my army is, what it does, it's range, etc.

Especially if they look confused when I put something down.

I even give advice.

As a general rule, if I can make it WYSIWYG without making the model look like junk, I do so.

I play Tyranids, and every single model is WYSIWYG.

5 (hormagaunt) models are missing a couple of tiny biomorphs, and so are not yet painted. I only use them in large games to fill out squads.

I play one of the easiest armies to "ignore" the RAW here and think its pretty silly to do so. The point of using models is to have them visually represent things in game.
RAW says models should have all the things attached.
Are you meaning "Do people care?" instead of "Do the rules allow it?"
Once in a while I will play with a watered down list that has models with less than what is show (The extra armor, adrenal glands, and flesh hooks are not on that brood this game, ok?) but that is always in further games against the same opponent when we have free time and want to change lists around a bit to play again.

As for looking funny, I tried to get a bit creative with some to avoid this too - but there really are just some things that look funny in 40k. (SM transports = clowncars, for example.)

That said, I play a fair number of games with proxies while people figure out what they really want to build, as well.
Having a completed army that is still primarily "counts as", is probably a bad plan to start with.

I think as far as units go I would use my best judgment. Is the UNIT upgraded enough to where an enemy would know upon looking at the unit that they have said upgrade. Personally I don not even know what the adrenal glands would look like so I would not even know to ask.

Ok, Normally here is how my group plays.

Proxies;

FINE; A Basic Armed model/vehicle.

Example;

A Rhino
Space Marine with a Bolter
SM with Two Basic CC weapons

NOT FINE; A Special Weapon, Heavy Weapon, a Character, or upgraded CC weapons.

Example;

A Flamer
A Multi-Melta
A Veteran Sgt. or a Chaplain
A Power Weapon

WHY?

It is not your opponent’s job to remember that your Heavy Bolter model is actually a Las Cannon today, (after he/she sets their Predator in front of it). Etc. etc. etc.

Additionally, Proxies lead to Gimmicking Armies, especially for SM players.

Example;

A Necron Army player is committed to Necron only models. (As with all Vile mostly metal Xenos)

A SM Army player that paints the SM models Orange; today is a BA list, tomorrow is a DA list, and the day after is a Divergence list Y, then Q, then F, etc.

NOW with GW re-tooling (tool being emphasized) their Website We have a different view on this subject.

Example;

The only way to purchase a single Howling Banshee Exarch is to get a 5 model Box-Set.
The only way to purchase a single Jump-Pack is to get a figure with one (@$10.00 U.S. Veteran Assault Sgt.)
The only way to purchase a …etc.

So, not in a Tourney.

All other occasions, if you do not mind, use your best judgment.

if WYSIWYG is the requirement, any other result is just lazy, irresponsible disrespect. In a tournament, where time is an issue, having to ask and have my opponent keep pointing out the odd non-WYSIWYG model is not only disrepectful to me, but it's also a time drag.

In a friendly game, I don't care.. time is no issue and we can discuss what's really on the table, but in a tournament, it's either all or nothing for me.. 100% or don't bring it.

Perhaps I am that way because I take the time to make it all correct.

A good modeler can find a way to show all upgrades without making the model look terrible.

It's much easier to say, Ihave none of the upgrades shown on my models, rather than to say, "well, these two have this upgrade, and that unit has this one, and the blue unit has the other upgrade." Then your head starts to spin..

The only exception to this that I found easy to follow was a player who took a picture of each unit, and put the picture by the unit description, with closeups of each upgrade etc.

i am going to start bugs soon.

i plan on making my CC gaunts I5. but since the upgrade makes the model look like an orks that has been sitting on a highway for a week. i am not putting it on.

now then. if one squad of gaunts has this upgrade, and one squad has that upgrade... then something like a different color of paint around the ring of the base would be nice.


little stuff dosent matter. mabey my gaunts evolved that gland so it was protected by thier carapace armor insted of being out in the open.

but a carnifex with a venom cannon and strangler. is still a carnifex with a venom canon and a strangelr... as those are major parts of the model.

why sould people who care about how their model looks. and at the same time wish to win a few games be punished for wanting a army of prety toys???