Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I've not played for 1.5 editions of 40k, so forgive some of the ignorance, but 5th has me really interested again so the Dwarves a back on the shelves while I work on my Hive Fleet Kraken splinter army.

Been reading here and elsewhere for about 6 weeks trying to get myself back up to speed and gauge what's going to work and not work for the 'nids.

In 4th it appears to me that there were only two really viable options for Tyranids – A horde of stealers, with a brood lord, or variations on the Nidzilla list.

Neither of these particularly appeals, I've never really been a guy for min/maxing because I like a variety of models to paint and play with. However, whilst I'm not going to be attending tournies for the foreseeable, I don't like to lose.

My gaming group at the local store has a fairly even spread of armies, so I'm trying to cook up a competitive (with a small c) list that can take on the like of the Shooty Tau, Nob bikers, Daemons , vanilla marines and the Templars that generally turn up on a Thursday night. There's also a Necron dude, with a pair of Liths.

The point really is to ask if it's possible to make a decent 1500pt “balanced” list (Stelek might call it a battle box list ) which uses a good range of the minis.

The ones I've fiddled with so far contain 3 MC's – a pair of dakkafexes and a walking Dakka Tyrant with 2 guard, 6 ish leaping warriors and then 2 units of scuttling stealers with tendrils plus a big unit of spinegaunts and 20 ish Hormies.

The big problem I come up with on these lists is what to do with AV13 / 14. Anything below that and the fexes / tyrant will roll enough sixes on their shooting to beat AV12.

Now potentially, a bit of side armour manipulation with solve the AV13 problems, but I'd like something more reliable than that, and against Liths / LR there's no chance.

Which takes us to CC !!

I could go full tilt and kit all 3 TMC up for assault, but then I lose my shooty troop killing goodness, and there's a good chance that LR will just stay away. Or I was thinking of making my Tyrant flying.... but that leaves him slightly alone until the stealers turn up in the right place....

So, is a balanced list viable / possible or am I dreaming?

Well since "most" things are AV10 in the rear, giving your hormies str4, your leaping warriors +1 str or rending or charging them with your stealers should take care of that.

AV14 all around (Lith, LR, etc) is a whole different ballgame. Flyrant for the LR is my first suggestion. Carnifex's with Str 10 can still bring a Monolith down. Carnifex's with deathspitters are str7, rerolling scatter.

Finally, Zoanthropes or the Tyrant with Warp Blast is always an option.


edit: typo

The problem with balanced nids is that it ignores the sheer cheapness of Dakka-fexes. It's a staggeringly good unit, with great short range shooting, some mobility, nice durability, and almost no serious competition in the elites slot.

Every "Balanced" nid list runs into the same problem: warriors just aren't very good at anything. There are some decent builds floating aroudn for them, and leaping is a great place to start (if pricy), but they're simply an overcosted unit for what they bring.

Withouth warriors, however, your synapse more or less has to come from tyrants and zoeys, but both are fine units.

Landraiders can be dealt with by Tyrants (even balanced lists are allowed to take 2), by carnifexs if they get too close, or by warp blast. Monoliths should basically be ignored: worry more about phasing them out then destroying the bricks.

Only a carnifex can penetrate monolith in CC. MC bonus and rend is ignored, Living Metal and all that, no?

Use Zoanthropes 6"move +18" shot. bad odds, but better than anything else at range. And its another model type. Alternate is letting the HT do it, if you want to give it Warp Blast. Warp Blast is really fun in 5e and is the best AP in the Tyranid list - even the blast is enough most of the time.

Or phase out, as was said. But you asked how to deal with it, not how to ignore it. I run a "balanced" list with a good record (also with three MC, walking tyrant, dakkafex - and a crazy monstrousity no one else would use ^^ hehe)

The synapse thing is the real bugger, running hormies you really need something that's going to keep pace - i.e. leaping warriors or a flying rant.

One thought that crossed my mind is to ditch one unit of the warriors, 129 pts, and buy a broodlord & make one of my stealer units his retinue, although that would take me down a scoring unit. It would replace one synapse option with a better one that's likely to be further up the board... The spare points probably beef up the remaining warrior unit to 4.

Mixing the Warriors in with the Hormugaunts seems like a good way to go with the broods you send upfield.

Likewise the Warp Blast seems like the best Tyranid shooting, and might combine well with a Hive Tyrant armed with both the Lash Whip and Bone sword, and a Venom Cannon. Its ability to fire two weapons to hunt both tanks and light vehicles means your opponent couldn't ignore it, while the Catalyst from the Bone Sword would help make any assassination attempt dangerous. Surround the whole unit with some Termagants and you'd have a solid swarm.

I'd avoid the "Dakkafex" because my experience is that they have to get really close to their targets and are easily boned in close combat by stuff like Dreadnoughts, Wraithlords, hordes of Ork Boyz, and so on. The problem is that the 115 point ceiling, after Twin-Linked Devourers and Enhanced Sense, leaves you with a relatively squishy unit that punches below its weight in close combat and has to close for the best effect.

I think you'd be better off with units of Warriors and Lictors. Warp Blast via Tyrants and Zoanthropes will be more effective against Monoliths (and Land Raiders...) than a Carnifex's weapons or close combat ability due to the matter of range.

You can also make a double extreme list of Horde+Zilla.

8 Cheap TMCs, over 100 Gaunts...

Use shooty Tyrants to corall the gaunts for scoring purposes & pound the enemy with shooty and cc fexes on the cheap. There may even be room in there for a unit of scuttling Genestealers for added punch or perhaps a brood of 3 Zoanthropes for Warp Blast.

You really have tons of flexibility building Nids and there are a LOT of builds that work well. This one is also fun for the 'ulp-factor'...

When your opponent asks you "Godzilla or Hordes?" when you start pulling out bugs & you simply answer... "Yes."

Rockit, that might actually be something I could build my nids towards...

Yeah, I really love watching those games, too, lots of fun.

I have a tyrant with 2 Twin-linked Devoler, 1Heavy CC Fex, and 1 Sniper Fex.

is that an unbalance TMC ever made??

I've been using a list kinda like that currently and it works pretty well. 2 tyrants, 6 fex's, 60 gaunts, and 2 scuttling stealer units at 1850. You could drop one of the stealers units for 30 more guants if you wanted.

Havent had a chance to play eldar of either variety yet but it beats the pants off everything else.

Following thought, and reading of other people's list critique... list posted here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/215770.page#346317

hello? it seems nobody answer my question...

I don't fully understand your question....

"is that an unbalance TMC ever made??"

okay, forget it

Rockit wrote:You can also make a double extreme list of Horde+Zilla.

Running semi-Zilla Tyranids is all about figuring out the synergies. On their own, shooty MCs and Gaunts are both solid units, but getting them to work together properly can take some practice. I haven't given 5th edition CC Carnifexes a try, but in theory they should synergize well with Gaunts.

I ran something like this at the Baltimore GT last year, and it was completely viable under 4th. I'd make changes for 5th, but with Warriors getting better, the basic idea should only be stronger.

Winged Tyrant
Walking Tyrant
Dakkafex
Dakkafex
3 leaping Warriors
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Spinegaunts
16 Termagants
16 Termagants
8 Genestealers
Ravener
Ravener
VC/BS Carnifex
VC/BS Carnifex
2 Zoanthropes