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It’s hard for a sequel to live up to the original. But some have just been horrible. It’s all a matter of opinion, but what are your top choices for sequels or story-lines that just failed miserably.

Mine would be:

Star Ship Troopers (The first was awesome. Then they went to B-rated films?)
Highlander (Great idea for a story. Then just one disaster after another)
Predator (Arnold vs. Predator was incredible! Then... Danny Glover. Followed by cheesy Alien vs Predator films)
The Matrix (The first film was outstanding. Then they tried adding in different plot elements that just made it corny)
Star Wars (For the love of god, Jar Jar Binks? And Anakin turns evil for no substantial reason. And yes, these are “prequels” but give me a break!)

FYI: This topic is just meant as a fun idea. It came from a conversation with friends yesterday. Maybe the movie inspired you to write an army list or create a campaign, but don’t get too bent out of shape if your favorite film is on the list! Enjoy.

~Logic

Along side predator, aliens has seen a steady decline.

Its like they are dragging both of themselves down together.

Actually, I'd have to say that Aliens was better than Alien.

Different admittedly, but way better.

Edited to add:

Superman 2? About the same in quality as the first.

And then there's the debate about the even-numbered star trek films being generally much better than the odd-numbered films.

Let's face it, this isn't just a sf phenomenon. Most sequels tend to be worse than the original.

Possible Exceptions in sci-fi/comicbookland:
Terminator 2
Dark Knight
Wrath of Khan

The Matrix Reloaded was a good movie, it just didn't have all the new thrills that the first did, which raised the bar high.

As for The Matrix Revolutions, well.....it did have those mecha suits, kinda corny 'Jesus' undertones and....er........ya

I thought Alien was definitely better than Aliens. Of course, I love BOTH, but the first one just had that 'unknown 'factor that a sequel couldn't equal.

Jaws sequels were pretty terrible.

Rocky sequels had their moments.

A lot of it is expectation which can't be met because we know what to expect.

I did like "Empire Strikes Back" more than Star Wars, though.

Rocky didn't have sequels, but it is science fiction. The entire series was actually just a hypnotic pattern - that mainly consisted of an Italian man with a speech impediment blocking with his head - which deluded us into believing that there was a plot. It's better backwards.

On the subject of hypnotic patterns and backwards , does Charlie and the Chocolate Factory rate as a sci-fi on its own? I mean, that was a remake, but it's at least pseudoscience-fiction... and 'scifi' mostly is anyway. Both of the movies were terrible as well.

The trouble with the Matrix movies is that the first one was plagiarized and the other two were written by the W Brothers. That accounts for the uneven tone and such.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:
On the subject of hypnotic patterns and backwards , does Charlie and the Chocolate Factory rate as a sci-fi on its own? I mean, that was a remake, but it's at least pseudoscience-fiction... and 'scifi' mostly is anyway. Both of the movies were terrible as well.

I'd call it a children's morality story. More Fantasy or Fairy Tale than sci-fi.

Mad Max was not bad considering it's a low budget Aussie movie, way before movies strayed from Hollywood or Hong Kong. The Road Warrior was terrific with a little better budget and a swing into more sci-fi territory (I still watch it when I'm working on speed freeks). Beyond Thunderdome wasn't as good. They got more money and lost the edge....

Logic wrote:
Star Wars (For the love of god, Jar Jar Binks? And Anakin turns evil for no substantial reason. And yes, these are “prequels” but give me a break!)

I agree on the others on you list except star wars
dude, plenty of reasons for him to turn evil. if you cant find em, you gotta see the movie again.

good thread though. so much truth in here.

No. The prequels were crap. The only two good things about them were killed in the first one, which overall was the worst of the three. Just...just awful awful movies.

Agreed. What could have been epic like Shakespearean level epic Fall of Man turned into nothing but special effects and dorky robots. The new one should be better because there's no pretense of acting at this point, its purely eye candy.

Aliens is one of the worst films I have ever seen. Everything that made Alien original, beautiful and horrific is undone within the first hour.

Lets see, Alien is a story of interstellar rape. It puts a small band of civilians up against an unknown creature, with no hope of conventional victory. One by one, this perfect creature destroys them. This was made in the time of Star Wars, where all you had to fear was a dodgy daddy and Stormtroopers who have graduated drom the Stevie Wonder school of ballistics.

It delivers. It is totally bleak, merciless, and utterly unerving. It trashed all the sci-fi nonsense that had come before it. This thing screwed a man, and he gave birth. No wonder it freaked the generation of yesterday. Then the Exorcist of science fiction was destroyed.

Aliens could not have been worse. ''What can we add to the series? I know! Surfer-marines with massive guns, an evil corporation ( a reflection of hollywood? ) and lets make it have several endings! You thought the queen got nuked? Think again!''

It makes me want to puke. The whole genesis of Alien is that we didn't know anything about why this creature was so vicious, where it came from and how it got there. Now they're being blown away like ants. Why do they make that slowed squeal? Add a convoluted motherhood story line, token black drill sergeant, token hispanic lesbian, and token white male hero. The icing on the cake? RIPLEY FIGHTS AN ALIEN QUEEN IN A POWER LOADER.

Congratulations, you've destroyed one of the greatest sci-fi films of all time. Thank christ Blade Runner escaped. If anything, Alien 3 was a huge improvement on the second ''film'', because it took us back to that original feeling of helplessness and unease.

Alien was a work of art; a labour of love and unsurpassed originality. Aliens was simply a pre-emptive Starship Troopers (groan!).
How can anyone disagree?

I believe Alien was better than Aliens, but Aliens wasn't that bad. I look at them as two different genres. Aliens and Starship troopers is what I watch when I'm painting Imperial Guard...

Vasquez wasn't a lesbian, she just wasn't feminine in the traditional sense. A true individual following her own way and knowing who she was. And this was using cool guns to shoot at things. I think it's cool, why can't she?

Vasquez can do as she pleases! Maybe she realised the car crash of a film she was in, hence checking out early?

We'll never know.

The Sixth Element was poorly judged, as were 2002: Another Space Odyssey and Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind.

Anti-Mag wrote:Aliens is one of the worst films I have ever seen. Everything that made Alien original, beautiful and horrific is undone within the first hour.

Lets see, Alien is a story of interstellar rape. It puts a small band of civilians up against an unknown creature, with no hope of conventional victory. One by one, this perfect creature destroys them. This was made in the time of Star Wars, where all you had to fear was a dodgy daddy and Stormtroopers who have graduated drom the Stevie Wonder school of ballistics.

It delivers. It is totally bleak, merciless, and utterly unerving. It trashed all the sci-fi nonsense that had come before it. This thing screwed a man, and he gave birth. No wonder it freaked the generation of yesterday. Then the Exorcist of science fiction was destroyed.

Aliens could not have been worse. ''What can we add to the series? I know! Surfer-marines with massive guns, an evil corporation ( a reflection of hollywood? ) and lets make it have several endings! You thought the queen got nuked? Think again!''

It makes me want to puke. The whole genesis of Alien is that we didn't know anything about why this creature was so vicious, where it came from and how it got there. Now they're being blown away like ants. Why do they make that slowed squeal? Add a convoluted motherhood story line, token black drill sergeant, token hispanic lesbian, and token white male hero. The icing on the cake? RIPLEY FIGHTS AN ALIEN QUEEN IN A POWER LOADER.

Congratulations, you've destroyed one of the greatest sci-fi films of all time. Thank christ Blade Runner escaped. If anything, Alien 3 was a huge improvement on the second ''film'', because it took us back to that original feeling of helplessness and unease.

Alien was a work of art; a labour of love and unsurpassed originality. Aliens was simply a pre-emptive Starship Troopers (groan!).
How can anyone disagree?

I have to disagree strongly. They are wildly different genre films.

Alien, classic horror wrapped in a gritty sci fi wrapper. Absolutely excellent (fyi the evil corporation idea started in that film-you forget who sent them there and made “all other considerations rescinded.”

Aliens sci fi shoot ‘em up, one of the best evah! Good character individualization, and classic scenes/lines.

Both are choice. They are just different genres.

I'd say all the TNG films were worse than the original Star Trek films. 7, 9 and 10 were just long TNG episodes. 8 could have been amazing - but then they used up the entire SFX budget in the first 5 minutes and opted instead for a p155-poor time travel story.

Roll on the JJ Abrams reboot!


P.S. One day I will track down the pillock from the fox props department who put an Alien head in the trophy room of Predator 2. Then I will kill him for denying us Ridley Scott coming back to do Alien 5:Who was the Space Jockey?

(and yes, Ridley did say that he wanted to make that film but thought AvP was such an abortion he wanted nothing to do with franchise after that...)

Anti-Mag wrote:...an evil corporation ( a reflection of hollywood? )

Yeah, totally unlike the first film

And there is no need to ever watch a Star Wars film again, except MAYBE ESB. See other movies.

Aliens is an entertaining film. Alien is a horrifying film. Both good movies, totally different takes.

A3 was miserable and started the series downhill. I refuse to see AvP2 because the first was so bad.

I don't mind bad sci-fi, I can't stand when a plot only works because everyone in the film is a moron.

Star Trek went downhill after Khan, which was a lot better than the first one. The Next Gen with the Borg was pretty good though.

I haven't seen the rest of the Starship Trooper films after the first, but I thought it was sooooo bad, I can't imagine it's gotten worse. I mean, when the author's widow sues to stop it's release, that isn't a good sign. I really enjoyed the novel and the movie was a total letdown. No skinnies? No power suits? Bah!

Totally different films. Agreed.

Why.

Why not make Aliens a love story then? The whole ethos of the first film was abandoned. It bears an extremely weak link to the first film, and tarnished everything it stood for.
Also, I know my Alien background, so don't try and win an argument by making pathetic holes in my opinion. The point was that the second film utilised the company to allow them to make a sh*t film. Unlike Alien, where Ash's schizophrenic and murderous tendencies bloom because of a company loophole, Aliens simply shored up the gaping holes in an already slowed script.

I can't understand how you could like both films whilst namechecking them in the same sentence. If you like Starship Troopers then liking Aliens is a formality. But it's a film without vision, meaning, or artistic merit (either from the viewpoint of HR Giger or Ridley Scott). Aliens is the definitive example of throwing dollars at a film and destroying its soul.

Anti-Mag wrote:
I can't understand how you could like both films whilst namechecking them in the same sentence. If you like Starship Troopers then liking Aliens is a formality. But it's a film without vision, meaning, or artistic merit (either from the viewpoint of HR Giger or Ridley Scott). Aliens is the definitive example of throwing dollars at a film and destroying its soul.

Anti-Mag wrote:Totally different films. Agreed.

Why.

Why not make Aliens a love story then? The whole ethos of the first film was abandoned. It bears an extremely weak link to the first film, and tarnished everything it stood for.
Also, I know my Alien background, so don't try and win an argument by making pathetic holes in my opinion. The point was that the second film utilised the company to allow them to make a sh*t film. Unlike Alien, where Ash's schizophrenic and murderous tendencies bloom because of a company loophole, Aliens simply shored up the gaping holes in an already slowed script.

I can't understand how you could like both films whilst namechecking them in the same sentence. If you like Starship Troopers then liking Aliens is a formality. But it's a film without vision, meaning, or artistic merit (either from the viewpoint of HR Giger or Ridley Scott). Aliens is the definitive example of throwing dollars at a film and destroying its soul.

One can enjoy both for what they are.


on the positive, if anyone is looking for a smart, dark comedy antidote to the comic book films , In Bruges rocks.

Anti-Mag wrote:Aliens is one of the worst films I have ever seen. Everything that made Alien original, beautiful and horrific is undone within the first hour.

Lets see, Alien is a story of interstellar rape. It puts a small band of civilians up against an unknown creature, with no hope of conventional victory. One by one, this perfect creature destroys them. This was made in the time of Star Wars, where all you had to fear was a dodgy daddy and Stormtroopers who have graduated drom the Stevie Wonder school of ballistics.

It delivers. It is totally bleak, merciless, and utterly unerving. It trashed all the sci-fi nonsense that had come before it. This thing screwed a man, and he gave birth. No wonder it freaked the generation of yesterday. Then the Exorcist of science fiction was destroyed.

Aliens could not have been worse. ''What can we add to the series? I know! Surfer-marines with massive guns, an evil corporation ( a reflection of hollywood? ) and lets make it have several endings! You thought the queen got nuked? Think again!''

It makes me want to puke. The whole genesis of Alien is that we didn't know anything about why this creature was so vicious, where it came from and how it got there. Now they're being blown away like ants. Why do they make that slowed squeal? Add a convoluted motherhood story line, token black drill sergeant, token hispanic lesbian, and token white male hero. The icing on the cake? RIPLEY FIGHTS AN ALIEN QUEEN IN A POWER LOADER.

Congratulations, you've destroyed one of the greatest sci-fi films of all time. Thank christ Blade Runner escaped. If anything, Alien 3 was a huge improvement on the second ''film'', because it took us back to that original feeling of helplessness and unease.

Alien was a work of art; a labour of love and unsurpassed originality. Aliens was simply a pre-emptive Starship Troopers (groan!).
How can anyone disagree?

Quiet easily. Alien is great for all the reasons you've stated. Aliens is a completely different film, and good for it. If they tried to straight out copy the tension and style of the first it would have been a bad re-make.
If you like the 80's sci-fi/war movie genre, of which they're aren't many and only Predator can come close to quality, Aliens is a film for you. If you don't like that sort of film then I can understand why you'd dislike it. But a bad film it is not.

Oh and token Black Drill Sgt.? Al Matthews was a drill sgt. in real life. The first black man to do that in the U.S. He is the original in real life!

But if you don't like the film fair enough. It is very different, and relies on a few over the top characters and scenes. I just happen to love it for all that.

On topic:

Predator 2 is a bit boring.

The odd numbered star trek are average.

BUT Empire Strikes Back trumps Star Wars for me any day. It's such an improvement in tone and writing.

Which Sci-Fi sequels were *better* than the original?

Aliens beats Alien hands down. US Colonial Marines, Sentry Guns, PowerLoader and Drop Ship are simply awesome.

The Wrath of Khan is *unquestionably* better than Star Trek TMP. TWOK is easily the high water mark for all ST movies. "Botany Bay? We must get out of here!" "KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!"

And of course, The Empire Strikes Back totally crushes Star Wars. Again, ESB is the high water mark for SW, with Boba Fett and no teddy bear warriors. My only regret is that I didn't stop SW with this film.


And taking a step over to the superhero stuff, Dark Knight is better than Batman Begins.

Anything JohnHwang finds awsome, ruins films for me.

I watched all 4 Alien movies just this weekend, so I figure I should contribute to this thread.

For some reason, I don't really like Alien. Maybe it's because I'm too young, or saw to many "action"-Sci-Fi films before this one, or maybe it's just that I just don't like Horror movies in general. But, I have to say, Anit-Mag hasa point here. At least a little bit:

Lets see, Alien is a story of interstellar rape. It puts a small band of civilians up against an unknown creature, with no hope of conventional victory. One by one, this perfect creature destroys them. This was made in the time of Star Wars, where all you had to fear was a dodgy daddy and Stormtroopers who have graduated drom the Stevie Wonder school of ballistics.

It delivers. It is totally bleak, merciless, and utterly unerving. It trashed all the sci-fi nonsense that had come before it. This thing screwed a man, and he gave birth. No wonder it freaked the generation of yesterday. Then the Exorcist of science fiction was destroyed.

I may not agree with what you say about Aliens, but what you said about the first film sounds good. It's just, that when I watched it the first time, about 6 years ago, I found it to be rather boring, but that may well be because I got spoiled from, let's say, more explosive SF movies.

Aliens, though, I like a lot. It just takes what I thought was cool about the first movie (the Alien), multiplied it and added a bunch of Starship Troopers (I saw Aliens after ST, so that's how it was to me). And I think it works quite fine. It is a totally different movie of course, but it's still cool. And I liked the last fight with the cargo-robot.

So, next on the list, Alien 3. I think that one is rather solid. It's more in line with the first one, since there's only one Alien, but the dog-Alien was a nice little twist. So, there wasn't really much that bothered me about the 3rd one.

.....

..would be nice if it stopped here, wouldn't it....

Alien: Resurection is, in lack of another word....just plain bad. And boring. The sad part about this is, that it was written by Joss Whedon. I don't think I ever saw something from that guy I didn't like. Besides Alien 4 that is.
Where to start? Let's talk about the few good things first. I thought that Super-Ripley as a concept was quite cool, but her dialog was awefull. Especially the lines she exchanged with Wynona Ryder.
I like Ron Pearlman, whatever he does and I really dug the scene with the swimming Aliens. Puts them just a tad higher on the threat scale.
...I think that's about it what I liked in Alien 4. So, what didn't I like?
1. 2 thirds of the mercenarys where useless. That leader guy looked so boring that you knew he would be the one of the first to die.

2. If Aliens can spit acid, why did they have to rip one of them apart to make a whole in their cell.

3. The Hybrid. I HATE that Alien-Hybrid. The menacing thing about Aliens, is that they look at you without eyes. The hybrid looked like a frickin' Gremlin.


I'll rant about AVP later...

JohnHwangDD wrote:Which Sci-Fi sequels were *better* than the original?

Aliens beats Alien hands down. US Colonial Marines, Sentry Guns, PowerLoader and Drop Ship are simply awesome.

The Wrath of Khan is *unquestionably* better than Star Trek TMP. TWOK is easily the high water mark for all ST movies. "Botany Bay? We must get out of here!" "KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!"

And of course, The Empire Strikes Back totally crushes Star Wars. Again, ESB is the high water mark for SW, with Boba Fett and no teddy bear warriors. My only regret is that I didn't stop SW with this film.


And taking a step over to the superhero stuff, Dark Knight is better than Batman Begins.

Don't forget flak armor and 10mm exploding tip caseles rounds, after all they are standard light armor piercing rounds?

AntiMag, not to be persnickity, but you realize Aliens IS filmed 40K correct? Cadians in action baby!
You don't have to detract from one film to extoll the other (I'd Alien up there in the top five horror films of all time)


EDIT: Agreed, the alien-hybrid was gross looking, and in no way scary or in thematic league with the remainder of the aliens.