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I don't, maybe it's just age, but I think you'll appreciate Alien more with time. Aliens is instantly more accessible these days, but Alien is more of a cineaste's film.

They are both better on the big screen, but when Alien came out it was a watershed moment. You have to put yourself in that pitch black theatre and the slow moving shots, no music or sound, just emptiness. If you pop a balloon half the audience would have passed out. Aliens is more of an adrenaline rush.

I like the fact that they are two different movies. Sequels that try to be a rehash of the original film tend to be lackluster.

I don't want to end up being the bad guy here; it seems that some of you agree with me and that some of you don't. I can't see Aliens as a great action movie because of its ties with the first film, which is in my top three films of all time. I get annoyed when I say to people ''Alien is great'' and the knee jerk reaction for most people is to go ''... but Aliens is so much better!''. It drives me insane every time!

I think the previous posts on this thread have been commendably open minded. I know Alien looks a little dated now in some scenes, but there are some shots which wouldn't look out of place today, and in this era of CGI it looks disturbingly real.

When it was released, it must have been genuinely shocking. There is a true story of critics (literally) running away from the premiere screaming, which is funny now but in hindsight much more understandable.

What a film. That first panoramic shot... and those unsettling murmurs of noise. Can't be be beat. The only opening that matches that is the skyline of Los Angeles at the start of Blade Runner. A round of applause for Ridley Scott.

I think, in the same vein, Aliens was of its time. Films like The Terminator etc were all over the cinema; artistry took a back seat. Also, the public had seen the Alien by then, I just wish it hadn't been taken to such a ridiculous extreme in the second film. It's so.... American. No offense, US cousins, but you probably understand what I'm getting at.


(I thought the comparison between Cadians and USMC was quite funny. Personally, even though the Cadian plastics look like members of the NFL, I don't see them to be as boneheaded as Hicks & co. portrayed. I think more Saving Private Ryan meets Killzone, but that's just me).

I'd posit the opening of ROTK, Star Wars (the first and only real Star Wars), Enemy at the Gates, and of course 2001 as equal openings in that regard.

EDIT: Wait, how were the Colonial Marines boneheaded again? They were loud an obnoxious, but generally lethal killers in a situation they were outclassed.

Anti-Mag wrote:I don't want to end up being the bad guy here

You'll often find it's not so much what you say, but how you say it that makes the difference between understanding and being "the bad guy". You didn't just say that you didn't like Aliens, you pretty much were belittling anyone who did and putting some very personal and biased spin on some it. It is a much beloved movie, and for good reasons, but it is also possible to find fault with it without being "that guy".

I'm with jfraz on In Bruges. I was in stitches for some of that film. And it's very well shot.

Sci Fi going down hill...
Spiderman 1, decent.
Spiderman 2, better.
Spiderman 3...noooooooo!

Batman, decent.
Batman Returns...alright.
Batman Forever...okay, who let Jim Carey and Robin in.
Batman and Robin...wtf?

X Men, watchable.
X Men 2, sorta watchable.
X Men 3, shoot me now.

I give Bill and Ted's Bogus journey a nod over Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventure for its vision. Bill and Ted's Excellent
Adventure makes good with the historical and anachronistic
comedy, while Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey nods to different
films, genres, and tropes.

Also, robot Bill and Ted.

When will people learn??? It's Spider-Man! With a - , sorry, I just can't stand it when people make that mistake over and over.

But I agree with you on the rest Boss. Spider-Man had some great Spidey action sequences, but was overloaded and dumbed down. Venom alone would've have been a awesome movie, if they would have done it right, but it feels like Sony pushed Raimi to includ all that stuff.


I actually enjoyed Jim Carrey as Riddler in Batman Forever. The scene where he breakes into Wayne manor, wearing that classic pyjama is IMO just fine. It was the whole braine washing-plot and the suit in the end which made it so terrible. Plus, Tommy Lee Jones was just plain crazy, and Two-Face shouldn't be like that.
The less said about Batman and Robin the better. I recently watched the fight wiht Mr. Freeze again. It feels like Arnie, after 20 years of making all sorts of action movies, kept the worst one-liners he had for himself to use them all in this movie.


I like X2 a lot, but what Retner did to the franchise with last stand was horrible.



And to bring up another movie, I think Terminator 2 is really great, but the 3rd is....awkward. Christina Loken just isn't a good bad guy. Arnie, yes. Robert Patrick as soulless killer machinem hell yeah. But everytime there was a close-up shot with the T-X I just thought: And she is supposed to be more dangerous than the liquid metal guy? Meh.

Anung Un Rama wrote:When will people learn??? It's Spider-Man! With a - , sorry, I just can't stand it when people make that mistake over and over.

Peter Parker, the Spider-Man - super hero
Peter Spiderman - accountant from Queens

Anung Un Rama wrote: it feels like Sony pushed Raimi to includ all that stuff.

It feels that way becuase that is exactly what happened. Raimi doesn't really like Venom, or any of the villains created after 1980. Sony and Marvel pushed it down his throat.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I actually enjoyed Jim Carrey as Riddler in Batman Forever.

I'm sorry to hear you were sufferering from head trauma when you saw the movie. I'm hoping you got better.

Well, Carrey's Riddler was at least better than Tommy Lee's Two-Face and Kilmers Batman and Bruce Wayne.

The 90's Batman films were fine, it was not supposed to be taken with any level of seriousness. The current Batman provides that.

Alien/Aliens. Both verygood films, but while Aliens was a lowbrow 'awesome ZOMG' film, Alien was a work of high art that also happened to be gritty and exciting. The rest were just crap plug-ins to milk the franchise.

Bladerunner should be ranked alongside Alien, frankly I think they are two of the finest films ever made.

Of the films eclipsed by the sequels Mad Max 2 tops the bill, which was an inspired follow to a lacklustre original. Dungeons and Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God, deserves special mention because it was not only a far better film than the orginal, but also produced on a much lower budget.

However its a rare trend, some films can be improvements Empire Strikes Back and Wrath of Khan come to mind but follow great originals. Few good sequels follow a poor original, yet there are numerous poor sequels.

I think most people could see the writing on the wall with Return of the Jedi. The prequels are just building from the Ewok tradition.

I forget who commented that they won't watch AvP2 cuz of the first one, though you might want to give it a chance. The second one was everything the first one was not. A much better movie all around. Helps that it has an R rating (1st one was pg-13).

AvP was bad, AvP2 was worse in most categories: acting, directing, and writing.

Ahtman wrote:AvP was bad, AvP2 was worse in most categories: acting, directing, and writing.

It sucked. But at least many of the annoying characters died.
The ones that lived were just a annoying but it was nice to see some heads roll.

Plot, None
Characterisation, Hurr!... Worse than not having any.
Action, couldn't even get close to making the film enjoyable.

AVOID

Ahtman wrote:AvP was bad, AvP2 was worse in most categories: acting, directing, and writing.

And lighting too ! Seriously, we ramped up the brigtness on the idiot box to the max and we could still only just make out what was going on at times in the film.

.... Superman II was better than Superman though right ? " Kneel before Zod " Classy.

I dunno, I guess I could enjoy the movie for what it was.

Thats almost like saying Snakes on a Plane was a bad movie. Of course it was bad if you compare it to something like Dark Knight, ESB, or whatever "good" movie you want to put in here. But if you take the movie for what it was, a horror movie that didn't take itself seriously, I really enjoyed it.

Dungeons and Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God, deserves special mention because it was not only a far better film than the orginal, but also produced on a much lower budget.

Yeah well it wouldn't take much of a budget to polish up a better looking turd than the first one. I was glad I watched it on DVD so I: a/ didn't pay theater prices for that crap
b/ cloud watch the deleted scenes that actually made the plot make some sort of sense!

Really, watching Jeremy Irons writhe around and overact in the first one was horrible to see. Almost as bad as Harvey Keitel (sp?) as (gay?)Satan in Little Nicky.


Alien, Aliens are two totally different movies, both good, one arty and slighltly boring, one action packed and slightly 80s action dumb.

Looking forward to Dark Knight, loved Batman Begins (except for the stupid "5-seconds of thought" title). After "Batman" the earlier movies sucked balls! The last one was worse thn the intentionally campy Batman movie based upon the TV show (love that Bat-Shark Repellant in the Helicopter locker).

Did I see mention of "The 6th Element"?! Never heard of it, please expound!

ESB, my favorite SW movie!

He likely meant The Fifth Element.

Greebynog was being witty. C'mon, don't make us all look like mouth-breathers in front of the Brits!

Anti-Mag's Alien vs. Aliens was one of the most awesome nerd rants I've heard in awhile. Good job man. I totally agree.

Resident Evil > Resident Evil 2 > Resident Evil 3 > Resident Evil 4 a.k.a. Ultraviolet.

I'd say that Dark Knight is superior to Batman Begins, but not by much. They really got the Joker right, this is no Caesar Romero funny-man.

There were parts of Alien Resurrection that I liked just because they were different. But, the best part of the storyline, the second generation synthetics, they glossed over. And how much did Joss Whedon 'write'? I got the feeling that was a group-effort, which means that either had to re-work someone else's crap or someone re-worked his stuff into crap.

I can watch Aliens anytime, it's a very entertaining movie. It's not an art-piece. Alien still gives me creeps, but is a 'higher quality' film.

I've always been surprised that no one has attempted to do a sequel to John Carpenter's The Thing. Rumor is that someone is working on a remake.

Because Carpenter's the Thing is itself a sequal to pure AWESOMNESS?

More importantly I think the concept has been done to death several times now. It infects you. Know one knows who's good or bad. You're possessed, almost like a zombie...

Joss Whedon is credited for writing the sreenplay in Resurrection.

Arkion wrote:Greebynog was being witty. C'mon, don't make us all look like mouth-breathers in front of the Brits!

Anti-Mag's Alien vs. Aliens was one of the most awesome nerd rants I've heard in awhile. Good job man. I totally agree.

Resident Evil > Resident Evil 2 > Resident Evil 3 > Resident Evil 4 a.k.a. Ultraviolet.

Lol Mouth-breathers...

I feel bad that Joss wrote Alien 4. I only remember it being very bland.

Alien is my favorite, but I still like Aliens for what it is- a classic sci-fi actioner, much different from Alien’s horror film in space.

There were some great concepts in Alien 4. I really liked most of it, up to but excluding the end. I read a review of it in which the reviewer touched on the evolution of Ripley through the series. In the first movie she’s a horror film protagonist. In the second film she’s an action hero. In both, she is us; the figure the viewer identifies with. At first horrified and uncertain, and in the second the voice of experience; she’s seen these things before. The fourth film turns this around. With Ripley’s changes, she is now the Other. Ryder’s android is in some ways the most human character, as we are no longer sure if Ripley is.

I have to admit I’ve never watched 3 all the way through. I heard so many bad things about it when it came out, and wasn’t happy about the resolution for Hicks and Newt. I’ve heard more good things about it since, though, so it’s on the list of stuff I want to check out.

For the record, I liked Predator AND Predator 2. I even liked the alien skull/head in the ship. But then, that gave me a good deal of nerd joy at the time, as I had already read and really liked the original Dark Horse Aliens v Predator story from 1990. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_vs._Predator_%28comic_book%29

Arkion wrote:Resident Evil > Resident Evil 2 > Resident Evil 3 > Resident Evil 4 a.k.a. Ultraviolet.

Is Milla buck-naked full-frontal in Ultraviolet? If so, then UV >> RE.

Lormax wrote:Thats almost like saying Snakes on a Plane was a bad movie. Of course it was bad if you compare it to something like Dark Knight, ESB, or whatever "good" movie you want to put in here. But if you take the movie for what it was, a horror movie that didn't take itself seriously, I really enjoyed it.

Snakes on a Plane is a movie that only exists to fulfill a marketing exercise. That said, horror movies are inherently bad, so it's kind of like youre saying "this isn't the worst turd sandwich I've ever had". The fact that you need to push the bar down to low-budget horror, instead of big-budget action should be a sign of how bad it is. What's next? Lowering the bar down to Uwe Boll levels, or maybe a Ron Jeremy-Rocco Siffredi tag-team?

dietrich wrote:IThere were parts of Alien Resurrection that I liked just because they were different. But, the best part of the storyline, the second generation synthetics, they glossed over.

I can watch Aliens anytime, it's a very entertaining movie.

I've always been surprised that no one has attempted to do a sequel to John Carpenter's The Thing. Rumor is that someone is working on a remake.

I actually enjoyed Resurrection, precisely because it focused on the synths - I always enjoy watching Winona.

And Aliens is just incredible great fun to watch. I should get out the DVD this weekend...

So it'd be a remake of a remake? If we're going to remake any of John Carpenter's movies, why not remake John Carpeter's Vampires. *That* is pure entertainment: "Did you get wood, Father?"

Arkion wrote:

Anti-Mag's Alien vs. Aliens was one of the most awesome nerd rants I've heard in awhile. Good job man. I totally agree.

I'm back. Oh dear ( I really should find a new thread!)

I'm done with the Alien vs. Aliens saga. It was good fun, I enjoyed it, and my opinions still stand. Thanks to all of the positive feedback, and to the people who still disagree... fine. Opinions make the world interesting.

I think Alien 3 is a little misunderstood. If you can, check out the ''making of'' DVD which came in the quadrilogy boxed set. I'm not sure if this got released stateside, but In England it was a nine disc set. Each of the films were covered with directors cut and theatrical releases, and each had a complementary disc of features, which were well worth watching. The Alien 3 disc gives incredible insight into the chaos which surrounded its conception and execution. In hindight, and with the knowledge gained from the disc, Alien 3 can take on a whole new dimension for the discerning viewer.

I think most people will agree that Ressurection is a poor film, with forgettable characters, a Ripley with little personality and a convoluted hybrid creature that reeked of desperation. But I hope Alien 3 is not overlooked. I'm sure that the Quadrilogy is available in the US, but it might have different featurettes. If you can't find it, I really recommend importing it in. The documentary by Mark Kermode, a fellow Englishman, is worth the price alone (I'm not being patriotic, it really is excellent). I couldn't find it online unfortunately, but hopefully you'll have better luck.

If you do find it, enjoy.

How is Alien 3 misunderstood?

jfrazell wrote:How is Alien 3 misunderstood?

It has been sort of the black sheep of the films. After Aliens most theatergoers were expecting an action film. It was not an action film but more like the original. The expectations were off on it and it gained something of a bad reputation and was quickly dismissed. It certainly is flawed but it's ambitious in it's style and setting. That fresh young director by the name of David Fincher may have a future.

Yes that box set is available in the US.

I think part of the difficulty for Alien 3 is that its just so goawful depressing. Thats something different from the earlier films.

*Alien. Its a freighter crew. Indeed when the space wasp isn't around they are a happy bunch looking forward to their return home and their "shares." very real, with realworld griping. Once they realize what it is they develop a plan (sorry Dallas plan no worky), then deal with the droid and decide to blow the whole thing up. Its terrifying, its "real" but its not a buzzkill.

*Aliens. Marines come. Marines get butt kicked but shoot up some bugs. Bugs get uppity and marines squoosh a whole lot of bugs. Heroes escape, one caught. Big Hero goes back in. More partying ensues. Later Mamma bug gets uppity and gets a stern talking to. Most heroes survive or go out in cool Viking/samurai manner.

*Alien III. Its a prison. All the heroes start the movie, well dead. No one can leave. Most of them are idiots and we feel the bugs need to eat a better class of human or it might start infesting trailer parks. Even the guards are pathetic morons. The doctor is an addict and there's lots of depressing drug references. The heroine has a bug in her and knows she's gonna die. They have nothing to fight the bug with. Later other guys turn up and turn out to be holes too. One could argue its an emo fantasy. You can almost see the front row filled with emo kids, cutting themselves and saying "life is pointless." After the movie they are robbed by Heads. Score One for the Heads.

I would say most sequels--unless conceived of as really a part two+ and are part of the original vision--are basically pants. Likewise going past sequel 1 unless there's already a vision. Any part 3 is just a money grab.

The LOTR trilogy was fine (though ROTK goes on a bit. Then again, so does Mozart)
Superman 1 + 2 are great. After that...not so much
SW and ESB are great...ROTJ is alright. The prequels are, unfortunately the exception that proves the rule to the above statement.
Batman 1+2 (both series): fine. After that...
Spider-man 1+2: fine
X-men 1-2: fine
Hellboy 1-2: fine.

Predator, SST, Highlander (I refuse to acknowledge any of the sequels, even though I saw all but #2 in the theater) etc. sequels are all crap.