Tau 8th Edition Tactics

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**Kanluwen**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Deadawake1347 wrote:
So, after looking through the codex I was curious if anyone had found any mention of anything making use of the Jet Pack keyword, or if it's literally wasted ink on half the entries in the codex.

I didn't find anything making use of it BUT I did notice a lot more of a deal being made about certain aspects of shipboard fighting and things of that nature for certain Septs/color schemes.

Maybe they're planning on adding Zero-G environmental rules?

That is reaching a bit, I think.

I think it is just wasted ink, copied over from the index. Maybe somewhere back in the index design notes there's a rule for us to have JSJ on jetpack units which never made it in. A lost post-it note, blown out the window....

Sure it's reaching--but Chapter Approved has brought new environment rules.

MilkmanAl wrote:Like, we have to play in space now? WTF?!

Hey, you say that--but it was supposed to be the third of the "Warzone" books way back in the day. We were supposed to have Cities of Death, Planetstrike, and "Deadzone"(space combat).

I would totally be down for a specialized set of rules where zero-G "zones" exist, able to only be traversed by Jetpack or Jump Pack units--or things with Fly.

Ahem...

Anyway, I've been thinking more about Crisis Bomb options. Given that we can split fire at will, I don't know that I have much problem running a massive 9-suit unit with supporting drones. Clear the trash mobs with gun drones, maybe have some shield drones for awful things like auspex scanning Hellblasters, and blast away at hopefully 3-5 big, juicy targets with your suits. As I mentioned previously, not much is going to stand up to that volume of fire. I'm thinking I'd have a Buffmander with a drone controller nearby to make the drones more lethal, but I can see the value in giving him a couple fusions to have fusion blades (since he'll be FSE, after all!). The rest of the army would be Battalions to build up CP and get objectives. Maybe have a Riptide or Ghostkeel with a VT in case of flyer spam and to handle a backfield incursion.

I'm honestly not sure how to run a Crisis Bomb at this point. I just don't know what to run for my Tau, but I have a small(50 Power) game slated on Friday so I'll see what I like there.

**Desubot**

Kanluwen wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Deadawake1347 wrote:
So, after looking through the codex I was curious if anyone had found any mention of anything making use of the Jet Pack keyword, or if it's literally wasted ink on half the entries in the codex.

I didn't find anything making use of it BUT I did notice a lot more of a deal being made about certain aspects of shipboard fighting and things of that nature for certain Septs/color schemes.

Maybe they're planning on adding Zero-G environmental rules?

That is reaching a bit, I think.

I think it is just wasted ink, copied over from the index. Maybe somewhere back in the index design notes there's a rule for us to have JSJ on jetpack units which never made it in. A lost post-it note, blown out the window....

Sure it's reaching--but Chapter Approved has brought new environment rules.

MilkmanAl wrote:Like, we have to play in space now? WTF?!

Hey, you say that--but it was supposed to be the third of the "Warzone" books way back in the day. We were supposed to have Cities of Death, Planetstrike, and "Deadzone"(space combat).

I would totally be down for a specialized set of rules where zero-G "zones" exist, able to only be traversed by Jetpack or Jump Pack units--or things with Fly.

Ahem...

Anyway, I've been thinking more about Crisis Bomb options. Given that we can split fire at will, I don't know that I have much problem running a massive 9-suit unit with supporting drones. Clear the trash mobs with gun drones, maybe have some shield drones for awful things like auspex scanning Hellblasters, and blast away at hopefully 3-5 big, juicy targets with your suits. As I mentioned previously, not much is going to stand up to that volume of fire. I'm thinking I'd have a Buffmander with a drone controller nearby to make the drones more lethal, but I can see the value in giving him a couple fusions to have fusion blades (since he'll be FSE, after all!). The rest of the army would be Battalions to build up CP and get objectives. Maybe have a Riptide or Ghostkeel with a VT in case of flyer spam and to handle a backfield incursion.

I'm honestly not sure how to run a Crisis Bomb at this point. I just don't know what to run for my Tau, but I have a small(50 Power) game slated on Friday so I'll see what I like there.

Could of sworn i saw some campaign thing in an older book that was a space station on an asteroid fight. looked really sick. dont forget your helmets.

**ZergSmasher**

Desubot wrote:
Could of sworn i saw some campaign thing in an older book that was a space station on an asteroid fight. looked really sick. dont forget your helmets.

I think something like that was in the 6th edition BRB. It showed Grey Knights fighting Daemons in space.

**Mandragola**

I’ve been looking through the book for less obvious stuff, to see if there are any gems in the rough. Probably not, I think!

The sun shark doesn’t seem bad. It isn’t crazily expensive and, if given markerlight support, it can throw out a lot of shots. It’s been significantly improved by the buffs to ion rifles, which should now be thought of as its main armament. And it can carry on dropping bombs all game, if allowed to.

Missile pods remain way too expensive. I’m thinking about having a long-ranged Commander though, to call Kauyon and use the In Unity Devastation warlord trait. One option for this would be a commander with missile pods - and maybe a DC to buff some marker drones.

That said, if you go in for units of 3 broadsides, maybe an unarmed commander just using the CNC node stratagem would be better. Or even Shadowsun, to call Kauyon twice and use the stratagem. She’s stuck with a totally useless warlord trait though.

Overall I think there’s something to be said for the missile pod commander. He’d do some good against stuff like flyers that are hard to hit, and he’d have the range to stick him where his buffs would do most good - not where he needed to go to get in range. He wouldn’t be as suicidal as a CIB or fusion commander, so he might hang onto that VP a bit more often.

It’s hard not to see the guy as a missed opportunity to take better guns though. Arguably I should just make a Fireblade my commander... though then he couldn’t call Kauyon.

**fartherthanfar**

Is it just me or are Kroot hounds a bit OP, I mean, for the price of a cultist you get a model with 2 attacks that hit on a 3+, has a -1 AP and an amazing 12" Mov plus potential reroll charge roll. Sure, their Fast Attack Beasts so cant capture and have low Ld of 5 but that seems minimal as far as bad compared to all the extra they have over cultists.

I made a list which I feel is really quite strong. Am I missing something?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/753196.page#9886214

**GreatGranpapy**

It seems to be worded a bit oddly in the codex. Can Crisis suits and Crisis Commanders take the Iridium Battlesuit in addition to the available support systems, or is it part of that support system limit? I was wondering if just running a Crisis Commander to give him access to the 2+ save would be worth it but if that cuts into his hard points then it might not be.

**Fueli**

GreatGranpapy wrote:
It seems to be worded a bit oddly in the codex. Can Crisis suits and Crisis Commanders take the Iridium Battlesuit in addition to the available support systems, or is it part of that support system limit? I was wondering if just running a Crisis Commander to give him access to the 2+ save would be worth it but if that cuts into his hard points then it might not be.

Iridium is a separate upgrade from support systems or weapons. It does not take a hard point.

**SonOfTzu**

Is it worth it at all to take Crisis suits armed with anything other than 3 flamers? In the current edition with both hordes and high volume of fire everywhere it seems better to just take a bunch of them, leave them in manta hold, run up with a stealth suit to drop a homing beacon and go to town with the flames. I've lost a LOT of Boyz to flamer suits like this several times...

... And, now that I'm playing primarily T'au, this seems like the preferable tactic.

**the_scotsman**

SonOfTzu wrote:
Is it worth it at all to take Crisis suits armed with anything other than 3 flamers? In the current edition with both hordes and high volume of fire everywhere it seems better to just take a bunch of them, leave them in manta hold, run up with a stealth suit to drop a homing beacon and go to town with the flames. I've lost a LOT of Boyz to flamer suits like this several times... ... And, now that I'm playing primarily T'au, this seems like the preferable tactic.

I think the flamer build seems to be a lot less effective now given that the homing beacon was now changed to be dropped at the beginning of the movement phase, rather than the end. Its much harder to thread that needle and get the beacon within 8" of an enemy unit.

**Kdash**

SonOfTzu wrote:
Is it worth it at all to take Crisis suits armed with anything other than 3 flamers? In the current edition with both hordes and high volume of fire everywhere it seems better to just take a bunch of them, leave them in manta hold, run up with a stealth suit to drop a homing beacon and go to town with the flames. I've lost a LOT of Boyz to flamer suits like this several times... ... And, now that I'm playing primarily T'au, this seems like the preferable tactic.

So, for 207 points you can get a Crisis unit with 12 flamers in it – but no drones.
However, for 210 points you can get 6 units of 5 Fire Warriors. Vs boyz they both do practically the same average damage, and that is before taking into account markerlights and Fireblade buffs.

Which survives longer vs Orkz is debatable and depends on the orkz.

**Mandragola**

the_scotsman wrote:
SonOfTzu wrote:
Is it worth it at all to take Crisis suits armed with anything other than 3 flamers? In the current edition with both hordes and high volume of fire everywhere it seems better to just take a bunch of them, leave them in manta hold, run up with a stealth suit to drop a homing beacon and go to town with the flames. I've lost a LOT of Boyz to flamer suits like this several times... ... And, now that I'm playing primarily T'au, this seems like the preferable tactic.

I think the flamer build seems to be a lot less effective now given that the homing beacon was now changed to be dropped at the beginning of the movement phase, rather than the end. Its much harder to thread that needle and get the beacon within 8" of an enemy unit.

Homing beacons are still ok, but not amazing. To be honest I've never been all that convinced by flamer suits. You pay a lot to get a bunch of S4 hits on a unit, and you need to coordinate stuff with the stealths, which is unreliable. It's not as if we really need a lot more of this kind of firepower. What they do provide is a bunch of concentrated damage in one place.

Meanwhile CIB suits actually seem very good. I think I'd be more inclined to just use those.

I also think that plasma suits are probably viable. They aren't all that expensive and they hit reasonably hard.

Overall crisis suits are kind of ok, without being great. They feel a bit below par, perhaps because there's no obvious thing they are great at. The only really bad option seems to be missile pods. A suit with 3 missile pods costs almost as much as a HYMP broadside - it's actually more expensive before you factor in the SMS that thing also has.

**Ice_can**

Maths on most unbuffed crisis suit weapons comes out on the high side of points per damage on a T5 3+Sv model farsight manta stike strat and markerlights improve them but unbuffed there is better options in the codex. Also trying to thow down enough markerlight on more than one target is a lot of points that will get removed quickly if your opponents got any anti infantry shooting. Riptides ghostkeels and bodyguards realy would have benifited from BS3+. And not needing that 5 markerlights to realy shine. Lots of ok but need support or a game plan to realy shine. The advamtage to manta stike is its one of the few ways we can keep a hard hitting unit from being alpha striked along with commanders.

**Razerous**

Math needs to occur.

How do folk rate 8 burst cannons, 3 suits, drone controller + X number of drones?

**buddha**

It feels like you have to make crisis suits work whereas you can just take a riptide for a more consistent choice. Might just be cynical there if someone can show good cost to damage ratio for crisis.

**the_scotsman**

buddha wrote:
It feels like you have to make crisis suits work whereas you can just take a riptide for a more consistent choice. Might just be cynical there if someone can show good cost to damage ratio for crisis.

You definitely do have to make crisis suits work. They're a unit that is pretty situational at this point, and it's always a shame when an iconic unit is in that place but it's certainly not uncommon - look at Terminators, Guardians, Wyches, Rubrics, etc. And when that happens, a lot of people are going to want to make them work the best they can, because they like playing those units in the army and don't want to give them up.

**vaklor4**

fartherthanfar wrote:
Is it just me or are Kroot hounds a bit OP, I mean, for the price of a cultist you get a model with 2 attacks that hit on a 3+, has a -1 AP and an amazing 12" Mov plus potential reroll charge roll. Sure, their Fast Attack Beasts so cant capture and have low Ld of 5 but that seems minimal as far as bad compared to all the extra they have over cultists.

I made a list which I feel is really quite strong. Am I missing something?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/753196.page#9886214

You are missing something HUGELY important. Battlefield roles. Kroot hounds are fast attack, while cultists/brims/guards/gaunts are all troops. Yes, Hounds ARE stronger than most of them, but they also give a minimal amount of CP compared to their troop counterparts, which in almost anyone's opinion is far more important than having bubblewrap that bites.

**Ice_can**

For 2k lists most tau lists I've thought of revolve around 2 battalions (the +3CP detachment) for 9 CP plus another detachment as points and units dictate. And hopefully another CP.
I dont need fast attack for CP's I need troops for CP and screening and multiple detachments for commanders.

Supreme comand detachment for stormsurge, otherwise most likely a vanguard detachment. Or go full cheese with 3 battalions for 12 CP.
It's not Guard CP insanity but its a reasonable number, but with useful stratageums I can see burning through alot.

**Kanluwen**

the_scotsman wrote:
buddha wrote:
It feels like you have to make crisis suits work whereas you can just take a riptide for a more consistent choice. Might just be cynical there if someone can show good cost to damage ratio for crisis.

You definitely do have to make crisis suits work. They're a unit that is pretty situational at this point, and it's always a shame when an iconic unit is in that place but it's certainly not uncommon - look at Terminators, Guardians, Wyches, Rubrics, etc. And when that happens, a lot of people are going to want to make them work the best they can, because they like playing those units in the army and don't want to give them up.

I'm actually having a hard time justifying them in a list using just Power(that's right, deal with it!). It's 12 Power for 3 Crisis Suits...or 10 Power for a Ghostkeel. Or 12 Power can get me 2 units of 3 Stealths or a unit of 6 Stealths.

I know points != power but man...Crisis Suits.

**Kdash**

Ice_can wrote:
For 2k lists most tau lists I've thought of revolve around 2 battalions for 9 CP plus another detachment as points and units dictate.
I dont need fast attack for CP's I need troops for CP and screening and multiple detachments for commanders.

If you’re going for 2 battalions, you might as well just go for a brigade.

You’re likely going to want things from the other force org slots in your army anyway, so you might as well put it all together. Even with a brigade, you’re prob going to have enough points left over for another detachment of some kind.

**Mandragola**

Well CIB suits do work, on the pure maths. They have a fantastic damage/cost ratio - especially against stuff with invulnerable saves.

They are also good targets for some buffs, like the CNC node and ignore cover stratagems. CIB ones in particular benefit from the Farsight +1 to hit, because it means they can't overheat.

They work really well with drones too. You can have them deep strike in with their own drones, reducing your drop count, or with tactical drone units in a brigade. They give you a cheap slot for a DC and the drones protect them in return. It may actually be worth having an iridium suit in the squad to tank, as hits get passed to drones only after saves have been taken.

Bigger units look quite intriguing. You can magnify the effect of those stratagems quite a bit by taking bigger units - though of course that starts to look a bit risky. One of the good things about this is it gives you the option of a much lower drop-count than Tau would usually have - increasing your chances of going first.

There's definitely an element of wanting to make them work, I agree. But in a game with a very strong alpha strikes around, any unit that's able to avoid them and hit with a seriously powerful strike of its own has to be worth looking at.

It really seems like there are a lot of viable ways to play Tau now. The most obvious option is probably a brigade, but that's far from the only way to go. All kinds of approaches look viable. It's a really fun codex to write lists for, I think. The only hard and fast rule seems to be ion ftw.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
For 2k lists most tau lists I've thought of revolve around 2 battalions for 9 CP plus another detachment as points and units dictate.
I dont need fast attack for CP's I need troops for CP and screening and multiple detachments for commanders.

If you’re going for 2 battalions, you might as well just go for a brigade.

You’re likely going to want things from the other force org slots in your army anyway, so you might as well put it all together. Even with a brigade, you’re prob going to have enough points left over for another detachment of some kind.

There are good reasons against this. Commanders are the most obvious of these.

**Xenomancers**

Kdash wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
For 2k lists most tau lists I've thought of revolve around 2 battalions for 9 CP plus another detachment as points and units dictate.
I dont need fast attack for CP's I need troops for CP and screening and multiple detachments for commanders.

If you’re going for 2 battalions, you might as well just go for a brigade.

You’re likely going to want things from the other force org slots in your army anyway, so you might as well put it all together. Even with a brigade, you’re prob going to have enough points left over for another detachment of some kind.

I disagree - tau elites are expensive and still aren't really up to par. Riptide isn't worth it still (an ion head has practically the same damage output for 130 points less). Ghost keel is good but you can't afford to bring 3 of them. Everything else is really overpriced or do a job you don't really need done. You can take far-sight marksmen but really - they aren't worth a dang thing and just feel like a tax.

In 3 batallions the only unit you are taking which you don't want to is a single etheral or 2nd firebalde as the 9 required troop units are actually good units and not taxes. My 3x battalion takes 3x commanders long strike and 2 fire blades - 9 5x firewarriors. Same number of command points as a brigade but whats best is - 3 commanders.

**davou**

So here's my go at an all suit list (with drone support for abblation and ML)

Anyone got any advice?

Spoiler:

The idea is to deploy the gun drones and commanders into reserve first, then start building a castle using the broadsides, with riptides on flank, marker drones around them to abblate wounds too later on, and then infiltrate the stealth and ghost to either deny drops or counter a juicy target.

Kinda low on CP, but I didn't wanna put troops in there if I could avoid it and break style.

**Ushtarador**

Xenomancers wrote:
You can take far-sight marksmen but really - they aren't worth a dang thing and just feel like a tax.

Are you kidding me? Sa'cea Vanguard detachment with Commander and 6 Firesight Marksmen gives you access to the Orbital Marker Distribution Uplink Stratagem and provides 6 Markerlights that hit at 3+ rerollable and can't be targeted (and they have a 2+ save in cover too). They are the best source of markerlights in the whole damn codex.

**Mandragola**

Ushtarador wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
You can take far-sight marksmen but really - they aren't worth a dang thing and just feel like a tax.

Are you kidding me? Sa'cea Vanguard detachment with Commander and 6 Firesight Marksmen gives you access to the Orbital Marker Distribution Uplink Stratagem and provides 6 Markerlights that hit at 3+ rerollable and can't be targeted (and they have a 2+ save in cover too). They are the best source of markerlights in the whole damn codex.

That's highly debatable. They are very expensive for markerlights and use up 6 drops, seriously reducing the chance you'll get first turn.

I'm not sure what the best way to run markerlights is, but I'm fairly sure that's not it. I guess it could be slightly better if you stuck them all in a tidewall thing, to reduce the drop count, but in that case you may as well use pathfinders. 10 pathfinders in a tidewall cost the same as 6 firesight marksmen on foot.

**Ushtarador**

But 10 pathfinders give you less markerlight hits, are much less reliable (especially against -1 to hit) and get shot off the board by a light breeze. The tidewall also needs a fortification detachment which means you can't take a commander.

The drop count is high that is the main disadvantage, but then it depends on the rest of the army whether it's even worth optimizing for that.

**cmspano**

Xenomancers wrote:

I disagree - tau elites are expensive and still aren't really up to par. Riptide isn't worth it still (an ion head has practically the same damage output for 130 points less). Ghost keel is good but you can't afford to bring 3 of them. Everything else is really overpriced or do a job you don't really need done. You can take far-sight marksmen but really - they aren't worth a dang thing and just feel like a tax.

If you're going for low cost then the FSMs are good. 25 points for a BS3 markerlight that can't be targeted and blown off the table like pathfinders. Plus if you're filling out a brigade you'd want 1 for sniper drones anyway. Sniper Drones are 54 points for a min squad and get the mortal wound on a 6 now. They're a pretty solid character sniper for filling up HS slots that you don't want to put broadsides or hammerheads in.

Ghostkeels got a good buff with the codex. >6 range for their -1 to hit and Cyclic Ion Raker is now a flat 6 shots instead of d6 when overcharging. That's a great buff. I want to say my Ghostkeel came in around 200 points for CIR, 2xFusions, Target Lock, and Shield Gen(only 8 points now)

Stealthsuits are still pretty good. Especially Vior'la. Deep strike a 6 man unit so a horde is the closest unit and shoot twice, 48 shots.

**Mandragola**

Good points - except that stealths can’t deep strike.

Firesight marksmen are decent but I wouldn’t spam them. If I needed to put markerlights on hard to hit stuff I think I’d use fireblades or Darkstrider and then use the d3+1 hit stratagem.

Marker drones are my favourite way to get markerlight hits - I think. They can deep strike in with crisis suits or deploy with stealths - who in particular don’t mind using up a slot for a DC, as they couldn’t have put a gun there anyway.

There’s quite a lot to be said for pathfinders now though - especially now that ion rifles are so good. A couple of units of them in a tidewall shieldline and gunport would be decent, I think. It’s not a bad place to stick characters too if you want a low drop count.

**cmspano**

That's right, I keep forgetting that stealthsuits set up during normal deployment and outside your deployment zone.

Right now I'm running 1 FSM I kitbashed together along side my other elites. Crisis teams, Ghostkeels, stealthsuits, etc.

**Da-Rock**

What about Tetras for Markerlights? In my last game they were the stars of the show......18" move was critcal to get a shot off, but hitting on 5's counters it a lot. (I was lucky and rolled two 6s from my two remaining Tetras to put 6 markers on a must die target).

**davou**

Da-Rock wrote:
What about Tetras for Markerlights? In my last game they were the stars of the show......18" move was critcal to get a shot off, but hitting on 5's counters it a lot. (I was lucky and rolled two 6s from my two remaining Tetras to put 6 markers on a must die target).

feast or famine, with a 60% chance of famine; not for me at all... Shame too cause I own four. I'm hoping FW changes them soon