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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





So I don't see anything that prevents Commanders or Crisis Suits taking a rail gun or a pulse blaster. What am I missing?

As awesome as it would be to have a bunch of Crisis Suits rocking pulse blastcannons (for 85ppm!), I'm sure we're just missing a list that breaks the options down a bit further. I'm assuming the weapons choices will essentially be the same as they are now and brainstorming accordingly.

After actually putting some reading time in, a few first thoughts:

First, Commanders are pretty great. They look like they'll be really useful for orchestrating alpha strikes with deep-striking suits of various kinds, especially if you can drop a Kauyon/Mont'ka on arrival. It doesn't hurt that deep strike is crazy reliable now, so you can easily precision drop some fusion blasters right where they need to be and unload.

Speaking of deep striking things in, Vespids! Holy crap! They might be useful! Earlier I was musing about plasma Crisis Suits, but really, 5 vespids are the same price as one plasma suit. Given the new wounding table, S5 isn't going to be a lot different than S6 against most targets, so you might as well drop 4 extra shots.

Fire Warrior spam...? With markerlights applying to everything shooting at a unit, MSU troops could work really, really well. Massed S5 wounds just about anything on at least a 5+, so even beefcake units aren't safe. With Devilfish being fairly resilient and fast, Breachers are also a solid option for armor control.

Riptides...the pendulum swung HARD. Sure, they're tougher, but they're basically on par with vehicles. However, they cost a crapload more. That said, the nova charged IA is pretty darn awesome. Then again, it better be for 350pts/model. With fusions, they could be pretty decent giant killers, but I think I'd much rather have a Stormsurge for the price.

Ghostkeels appear okay. At least the fusion collider is usable now, but I still thing the CIR with fusions or maybe burst cannons and an ATS is going to be the way to go. Points-wise, they're not so awful.

Vehicles took a huge buff overall. I like the looks of the Hammerhead a lot, and the Devilfish, as mentioned, is a solid transport option that actually has a fair amount of firepower.

Drones are going to be really important. Sacrificing them to keep big guns off your mega-suits is probably the way of the future.

   
Made in br
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

Naaris wrote:
so the 2 missile pods for the cluster rocket system count as 1 weapon?
I recall GW saying that a stormsurge had 10 weapons

1 main gun
2 sms
2 BCs / flamers or AFPs

What am I missing?


those you have listed and 4 destroyer missiles

edit: alcibiades is right

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 20:05:02


40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

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Made in ro
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

4 missiles + 1 main gun + 2 SMS + 2 flamers + Cluster rockers

10 weapons
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






MilkmanAl wrote:

So I don't see anything that prevents Commanders or Crisis Suits taking a rail gun or a pulse blaster. What am I missing?

As awesome as it would be to have a bunch of Crisis Suits rocking pulse blastcannons (for 85ppm!), I'm sure we're just missing a list that breaks the options down a bit further. I'm assuming the weapons choices will essentially be the same as they are now and brainstorming accordingly.


No, we are not missing a list. its on the second page of tau, same gun options as we did in 7th (except you can have 3 guns now, they cost different and do different things I guess)

MilkmanAl wrote:
After actually putting some reading time in, a few first thoughts:

First, Commanders are pretty great. They look like they'll be really useful for orchestrating alpha strikes with deep-striking suits of various kinds, especially if you can drop a Kauyon/Mont'ka on arrival. It doesn't hurt that deep strike is crazy reliable now, so you can easily precision drop some fusion blasters right where they need to be and unload.


Actually, you can't. you want your fusion under 9", and your deepstrike is at least 6". fusion strikes are pointless now.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Speaking of deep striking things in, Vespids! Holy crap! They might be useful! Earlier I was musing about plasma Crisis Suits, but really, 5 vespids are the same price as one plasma suit. Given the new wounding table, S5 isn't going to be a lot different than S6 against most targets, so you might as well drop 4 extra shots.


Yea, vespids are big winners in this edition, but not due to DS shenanigans, but the sheer movespeed speed.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Fire Warrior spam...? With markerlights applying to everything shooting at a unit, MSU troops could work really, really well. Massed S5 wounds just about anything on at least a 5+, so even beefcake units aren't safe. With Devilfish being fairly resilient and fast, Breachers are also a solid option for armor control.


Fire warriors, also one of the winners of 8th.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Riptides...the pendulum swung HARD. Sure, they're tougher, but they're basically on par with vehicles. However, they cost a crapload more. That said, the nova charged IA is pretty darn awesome. Then again, it better be for 350pts/model. With fusions, they could be pretty decent giant killers, but I think I'd much rather have a Stormsurge for the price.


I don't see myself fielding either currently.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Ghostkeels appear okay. At least the fusion collider is usable now, but I still thing the CIR with fusions or maybe burst cannons and an ATS is going to be the way to go. Points-wise, they're not so awful.


Not awful isn't much of a praise.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Vehicles took a huge buff overall. I like the looks of the Hammerhead a lot, and the Devilfish, as mentioned, is a solid transport option that actually has a fair amount of firepower.


What buff? they cost so much more that any increase in power is negated by sheer costs.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Drones are going to be really important. Sacrificing them to keep big guns off your mega-suits is probably the way of the future.


Drones are also a winner in 8th. just for being cheap and packing two guns.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




No, we are not missing a list. its on the second page of tau, same gun options as we did in 7th (except you can have 3 guns now, they cost different and do different things I guess)
Noted.


Actually, you can't. you want your fusion under 9", and your deepstrike is at least 6". fusion strikes are pointless now.
I do not at all agree that a S8 Ap-4 D6 damage shot is pointless. Picking the highest of 2D6 is obviously better, but that's a lot of pain to dump on a prime target.

Re: Vespids, Stormsurges, and Riptides, I agree on all fronts, except Stormsurges do seem pretty decent still. That pulse blastcannon can really tear into things, especially with an ATS on board. Ghostkeels are probably the best of the bigger suits, but again, definitely nothing I'm super impressed with.

What buff? they cost so much more that any increase in power is negated by sheer costs.
Eh, I disagree. I think they get to where they need to be and unload firepower much more reliably than they did before. They're not THAT expensive, especially when compared with our bigger suits.

Anyway, the road to the greater good seems to currently be paved by the rank and file. Fire Warriors, Gun Drones, and Pathfinders lay down the pain for just about everything and get support from something that can erase big uglies without much trouble. Fusion suits seem like a good option for the latter task to me, but I'm open to whatever other options may present themselves. Ghostkeels, maybe? Broadsides with HRR and plasma?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 21:48:33


 
   
Made in br
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

Fusion Crisis aren't dead. You'll need Homing Beacons for them to work properly, though (it's just like I use them today, so no change there),

On SSs... very few people seemed to notice, but it's only M6" and lost Stomp (wraithknight has a similar ability to Stomp now, as Knights). Looks like the testers really feared it in melee

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 21:41:46


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Dakka Veteran




Yeah, the Surge is now a bit on the pokey side, which limits the blastcannon's effectiveness a lot. That 10" range wasn't nearly as big of an issue when it was effectively 22". Losing stomps hurt considerably, but being able to walk away from combat and shoot a bunch is arguably better (even though everything can do so).

Riptides...ugh. I keep coming back to how hard they got beaten down. They needed a lot of reworking, clearly, but I'm not sure doubling their points cost was the answer. Maybe they'll play a bit better than they look.

So how about Aun'va now? I like the reroll 1s ability, and the 6+ FNP is quite a lot better now, since everything else similar got worse. Rerolling morale is also pretty sweet. All that for a reasonable price, too. He encourages gunlines a bit, but that's okay!

Commanders...4 fusions, anyone?

   
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Riptides needed beat down more than almost anything in the game as in individual unit. GW already has all the Riptide money they need for the next 5 years thanks to 6th and 7th ed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 00:51:28


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
Riptides needed beat down more than almost anything in the game as in individual unit. GW already has all the Riptide money they need for the next 5 years thanks to 6th and 7th ed.


The mere existence of rend and multiple wound damage does a lot to mitigate Riptides, and their absolute biggest boon was their durability.

Hopefully the forge world ones hit a balance point that's a little less "Am I sure I even want to take this?".

Overall though, not liking the lower model count -any- of my armies will be forced to use now, tau or otherwise. Variety is fun, large armies are fun.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




"their absolute biggest boon was their durability. "

No, durability they didn't pay for. Very important. Be as durable as you like, but please pay for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 01:04:59


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Martel732 wrote:
"their absolute biggest boon was their durability. "

No, durability they didn't pay for. Very important. Be as durable as you like, but please pay for it.


That's an oversimplification: If Riptides were priced with their durability as the yardstick they would have had awful firepower for cost.

The real underlying problem was an awkward mismatch of durability to firepower ratio that made it basically impossible to appropriately cost.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




They needed to pay for their durability, regardless of what it did to firepower/pt. That's the price of insane durability. And yes, that's bad unit design.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well, whatever. In any event, Riptides are damned expensive now. I echo the hope that the Forgeworld variants are costed a little less punitively, though that seems pretty unlikely, given that the base model is 200pts. Perhaps drone protection will make enough of a difference for Riptides to be viable, but at this premature stage, I'm leaning towards excluding them from my list entirely.
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






Honestly the riptide's issues all came from one place-invalidating the need to NOVA.

Two things caused it-the IA's pieplate option (there was almost never a need to NOVA an IA riptide's main gun because of it), and the riptide wings.

Other than these two, the riptide really wasn't ever a problem. any riptide that stuck to HBC and not in a wing, was completely fair.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the riptide's issues all came from one place-invalidating the need to NOVA.

Two things caused it-the IA's pieplate option (there was almost never a need to NOVA an IA riptide's main gun because of it), and the riptide wings.

Other than these two, the riptide really wasn't ever a problem. any riptide that stuck to HBC and not in a wing, was completely fair.

Exalted for truth.

It's a slap in the face to all the players with 3 or more Riptides to nerf them so hard. Perhaps they needed a price increase, but what we got? Shame on you, GW! I'm just damn glad I didn't invest in any more of the damn things myself. My one will be quite sufficient now.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 12/01/17, including usual wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10300 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1000 | Space Wolves: ~1500
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~Coming soon!
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~7700 | Death Guard: ~1900 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 10 | Current main painting project: Alpha Legion Sorcerer
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in il
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot






 ZergSmasher wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the riptide's issues all came from one place-invalidating the need to NOVA.

Two things caused it-the IA's pieplate option (there was almost never a need to NOVA an IA riptide's main gun because of it), and the riptide wings.

Other than these two, the riptide really wasn't ever a problem. any riptide that stuck to HBC and not in a wing, was completely fair.

Exalted for truth.

It's a slap in the face to all the players with 3 or more Riptides to nerf them so hard. Perhaps they needed a price increase, but what we got? Shame on you, GW! I'm just damn glad I didn't invest in any more of the damn things myself. My one will be quite sufficient now.


Same here. one for the retaliation cadre was all I ever wanted.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

On a more positive note, it looks like Longstrike got a price cut. He's now only 20 points more than a standard Hammerhead, compared to 45 when he was an upgrade for one. I'll probably take him instead of a regular Hammerhead in most games, as his special rules are good.

It looks like overall our wargear costs a lot more than it did. Not all of it is Riptide bad, but I do get the impression that the playtesters really did not like Tau much. At all. Maybe it'll be justified once we get a few games in and get the feel for them, but on paper it looks like Tau armies will be a lot smaller.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 12/01/17, including usual wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~10300 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1000 | Space Wolves: ~1500
Inquisition: ~200 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~Coming soon!
Tau Empire: ~5700 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~7700 | Death Guard: ~1900 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights: Renegade blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 10 | Current main painting project: Alpha Legion Sorcerer
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block




Having played couple of matches now I can echo what most have said alredy.

Riptide and broadsides are almost useless now due to cost. Crisis suits are decent with the deep strike since you can ensure they can't get alphad(?) out before they get to shoot. Hammerheads seem to be the winner here. Long range, good gun and durability. They can deal with both hordes and heavy vehicles/monsters pretty well.

Infantry is also pretty good now. I've been focusing solely on breaches sine the early takes on this game seems to be armies pushing extremely fast hard hitting units in your face from turn 1. The S6 -2 gun is an amazing counter offensive weapon.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




wighti wrote:
Infantry is also pretty good now. I've been focusing solely on breaches sine the early takes on this game seems to be armies pushing extremely fast hard hitting units in your face from turn 1. The S6 -2 gun is an amazing counter offensive weapon.


Which is nice for people who play infantry, but a lot of people bought into Farsight all-suit lists, in my case because I'd just come off building a horde army and wanted to do something very elite.

Are stealth suits any good? I have 18 of those.
   
Made in br
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

changemod wrote:
Are stealth suits any good? I have 18 of those.


Well, in an edition of every good option of yore getting more points, Stealth Suits kept the same price and got T4 W2. Also, they're the only unit with Homing Beacons (apparentely), so you can drop Farsight/Crisis under 9" of enemy units

40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

Ex-Gue'vesa of the Greater Good. Join us if you want to live!  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Stealth suits are better but still strike me as fairly mediocre. Wouldn't you rather have 4 Gun Drones? The homing beacon isn't a particularly useful upgrade anyway, in my opinion. It makes fusion suit drops a bit more effective, but that's pretty much it. You're otherwise better off staying further away.
   
Made in br
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

MilkmanAl wrote:
Stealth suits are better but still strike me as fairly mediocre. Wouldn't you rather have 4 Gun Drones? The homing beacon isn't a particularly useful upgrade anyway, in my opinion. It makes fusion suit drops a bit more effective, but that's pretty much it. You're otherwise better off staying further away.


Yeah, I'll wait on tetras to see if their homing beacons are more useful, as they're dead fast.

40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

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Made in ca
Repentia Mistress






Here's a thought: instead of using stealth suits to deliver expensive fusion suits into dangerous situations, why not kit out your stealth suits to deliver the fusion themselves? The fusion carrier can take target lock and the unit can (run) and shoot that sucker at suicidal close range with no BS penalty?

Also, while looking over these profiles I realized all the suits still have a 'jet pack' keyword. Are we positive JSJ is dead?

Alcibiades wrote:
The HYMP only has better average damage against really light vehicles.


I see where you're coming from and concede the point. It looks like I underestimated the heavy rail rifle after all.


I've heard it said that she can melt you with her eyes. 
   
Made in br
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon




Lisbon, Portugal

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Here's a thought: instead of using stealth suits to deliver expensive fusion suits into dangerous situations, why not kit out your stealth suits to deliver the fusion themselves? The fusion carrier can take target lock and the unit can (run) and shoot that sucker at suicidal close range with no BS penalty?

Also, while looking over these profiles I realized all the suits still have a 'jet pack' keyword. Are we positive JSJ is dead?


Because if you start with them on the table, they'll get killed. Not always you'll get terrain nearby the enemy unit you want dead or opponents that don't see them as targets.
Also, you need 6 models in a unit of Stealth Suits to bring 2 Fusions, while each minimum unit of Crisis can bring 9 meltas for similar price

---

Nowhere else tells us that Jet Pack does that. Maybe in the codex, but neither in the BRB or in the unit sheet explains anything on it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 16:21:16


40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anyone have any army ideas yet? I'm currently thinking of a mostly troops force anchored by 2 Ghostkeels with a sizable contingent of fusion and plasma Crisis Suits dropping in to eliminate choice targets.

With a little drone support, the Ghostkeels should be durable enough to be a reliable source of fusion and light vehicle/MC control. They'll push forward early and hopefully participate in the Crisis Suit carnage.

A Commander with a bunch of weapons will drop in with the suits, call Kauyon (assuming you can do that), and wipe off a couple priority targets. The suits will max out on Gun Drones for protection and wicked crowd control.

Fire Warriors will form the bulk of the deployed units, with Strikers featuring heavily. I'd also have a unit or two of Breachers for counter-offensives. An ethereal - maybe Aun'va - would allow for increased damage potential.

I'm thinking Pathfinders for marker support, though I'm certainly not opposed to Marker Drones. I like the flexibility having pulse carbines provides, and I'm not certain my plan allows for reliable drone controller presence in my backfield.

I'll work on an actual list shortly.

Ghostkeel - ATS, TL, CIR, 2 fusions, 2 stealth drones - 203
Ghostkeel - ATS, TL, CIR, 2 fusions, 2 stealth drones - 203
Commander - 4 fusions - 160
Aun'va - 2 guards - 75
3x10 Pathfinders - 240
3 Crisis Suits - 9 fusions, 6 gun drones - 459
3 Crisis Suits - 8 plasma, 1 DC, 6 gun drones - 267 1607
30 (6x5?) Strikers - 240
1847

The Ghostkeels are still a bit of a question mark for me. I may be better off replacing them with more Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors. I also think I may be a little Pathfinder-heavy, but they're so cheap!


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:33:43


 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





A Commander with a bunch of weapons will drop in with the suits, call Kauyon (assuming you can do that), and wipe off a couple priority targets. The suits will max out on Gun Drones for protection and wicked crowd control.


Reading over the Master of War and Manta Strike rules, I don't think you can use them in the same turn. Manta Strike happens at the end of your movement phase, meaning only after everything you want to move has moved and right before you go into the shooting phase. Master of War (declaring Kauyon or Mont'ka) is explicitly stated as being used at the beginning of your turn. As the Commander isn't allowed to drop in until the end of your movement phase, well after the beginning of your turn, he would not be able to call a Kauyon until the following turn at the earliest. Unless you want to argue that a model can use abilities when off the table, that's not gonna work. And before we go down that rabbit hole of YMDC, Kauyon only affects models within 6" of the Commander, and if he's not on the table no models will be within 6" of him.

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,046 points (2,650 points fully painted)


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Dakka Veteran




Righto. Good call. I obviously missed that, and it sounded too good to be true.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone




71 points for a Piranha with 2 Gun Drones seems good value now. For the same price as a Rhino we get 12 shots at BS 4+, and 12 shots on Overwatch as well per Piranha. Then split into 2 units as needed. T5 and 6 wounds is fairly resilient for a unit that is fast enough to often pick it's own fights.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Has anyone been able to wrap their heads around the cost choice on Ion rifles for Pathfinders? 7pts, it's a 30" range heavy D3 S8 weapon on overcharge. I don't can if I have roughly a 1/3 chance of killing myself. One markerlgiht greatly reduces that chance.

You could just spam tons and tons of these units. With ethereal buffs, potentially Kauyon as needed. And Darkstrider nearby as a topper.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
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Water-Caste Negotiator





 Coyote81 wrote:
Has anyone been able to wrap their heads around the cost choice on Ion rifles for Pathfinders? 7pts, it's a 30" range heavy D3 S8 weapon on overcharge. I don't can if I have roughly a 1/3 chance of killing myself. One markerlgiht greatly reduces that chance.

You could just spam tons and tons of these units. With ethereal buffs, potentially Kauyon as needed. And Darkstrider nearby as a topper.


There are a couple reasons for the low price point on it, at least as I see it.

1. Outside of its strength and range, it really isn't an amazing weapon. Its only AP -1. Even if you are wounding infantry on 3+ (potentially 2+ if you Overcharge), all but the flimsiest units will get a save against this. It's also only D1, even on the Overcharge profile, meaning that it won't be great at killing multi wound models, especially vehicles and monsters who it will be wounding on 4+ at best and will laugh at the AP -1. It also lacks volume of fire. Rapid Fire 1 means 1-2 shots in normal mode, with D3 (average of 2) shots in Overcharge. We have plenty of other weapons, Ion weapons and Missiles mostly, that have the S7 AP -1 profile, but either have much greater volumes of fire or do D D3 or better. Is the weapon better than the Pulse Carbine? Of course, no one would say otherwise. But its far from this hidden gem of a weapon.

2. You lose the Markerlight in order to take it. No explanation is really needed here, Markerlights are valuable. Especially in 8th where everything can split fire and markerlights are cumulative. The age old argument against taking special weapons on Pathfinders, paying to lose a Markerlight from your army, still rings true. Granted it's not as bad now that everything can split fire so you can shoot that Ion Rifle at a different target, but you are still paying points to take a Markerlight out of your army.

3. You have to take it on a Pathfinder (Hopefully someday the Tau Empire realizes that Fire Warriors are perfectly capable of carrying weapons beyond Pulse Rifles and Carbines and we can see these weapons on guys who could really use them). T3 5+ W1 models are not something we as Tau want to be putting our special weapons on. Pathfinders are just too vulnerable to risk dropping points for a special weapon on, IMO. Even if it is fairly easy to reduce the risk of that mortal wound from Overcharge, the risk is still present and Pathfinders still aren't great at standing up to enemy fire. With the new AP system anything better than standard infantry weapons will knock them down like a bowling pin.

I do see the potential value of Pathfinder Special Weapon teams in 8th (3 guys with Ion or Rail and a Shas'Ui). I think, however, that if you're going to take a special weapon on a Pathfinder, you are much better off taking the Rail Rifle than the Ion. The Rail Rifle is just a better weapon, full stop. Yes you pay more for it, but the damage output is pretty worth it. Still committing the sin of spending points to lose Markerlights, but you'll have real damage output with those. The Ion Rifle, simply put, does a job that Tau don't need anymore help doing. It's role is filled in other places with better options, both in terms of damage output and in terms of the units carrying them. Is the Ion Rifle utterly useless and pointless? No, of course not. Especially in lower point games, it can be useful to have a cheap way of getting S7/S8 in your list. At higher points games where you have access to things like Crisis, Ghostkeels, Broadsides, etc.? You really have no need for it, and the Markerlight you give up will be much more valuable to your army.

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,046 points (2,650 points fully painted)


849 points/ 15 SWC 
   
 
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