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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 killerpenguin wrote:
Do you guys think the taunar points is a mistanke?

The answer has to be yes but frankly I feel more like CA2020 was either a rush job or GW has done another GW and Copy pasted the new points from the codex's without the corresponding rules to justify them.

I expect it to loose the Battlesuit keyword in the updated FW books which would make its points a tad less OP.

Unfortunately Taunar also seems to be the only lists that are seeing success rate in the events so far and even then they are being bettered by Marines, Custodes and GK consistently

Anyone got any bright ideas on how to make Tau work in 9th? Beside Taunar ?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ice_can wrote:

Anyone got any bright ideas on how to make Tau work in 9th? Beside Taunar ?


Start playing Crusade for the next six months and dont give a feth about matched play until GW unbreaks their gak. I really hate to put it like that, but the combination of the gutting of Fly, the Battlesuit keyword doing jack gak, moronic points costs and the smaller table size means that in a competitve setting the margin for success for Tau is just not there. Especially as the new Marine codex is going to drop momentarily and ratchet up the associated armies even more.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Sterling191 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

Anyone got any bright ideas on how to make Tau work in 9th? Beside Taunar ?


Start playing Crusade for the next six months and dont give a feth about matched play until GW unbreaks their gak. I really hate to put it like that, but the combination of the gutting of Fly, the Battlesuit keyword doing jack gak, moronic points costs and the smaller table size means that in a competitve setting the margin for success for Tau is just not there. Especially as the new Marine codex is going to drop momentarily and ratchet up the associated armies even more.


Does feel like that.

The board size destroys any of the Tau advantage I can see. Feels like a Marine Meta in the casual setting, high BS, rerolls and extra shots falling from the sky and a seemingly default -3AP.

I don't want to be one of those 'I don't want to play against Faction X types' but I feel that way about SM atm.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Chenko_chenko wrote:

The board size destroys any of the Tau advantage I can see. Feels like a Marine Meta in the casual setting, high BS, rerolls and extra shots falling from the sky and a seemingly default -3AP.


I see a lot of mention of board size hurting Tau...even though board size is listed as "minimum board size". Is everyone sawing down their 4x6 tables to play minimum size games?

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Unfortunatly while not sewing taping yes. People follow gw and tournaments like lemmings even when change is just for money(and aren't even hiding it. Itc flat out said it's to get more paying players to events).

Despite minimum by definition not be optimal

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
Unfortunatly while not sewing taping yes. People follow gw and tournaments like lemmings even when change is just for money(and aren't even hiding it. Itc flat out said it's to get more paying players to events).

Despite minimum by definition not be optimal

You say like lemmings but events are on the new sizes so if your trying to practice for when you can attend an event not much point practicing on a different size.

Well the social distancing at events will be funny watching the impact on events, but also some personal space which is likely to be mandatory due to social distancing might just change people's opinions that it's worth having more expensive events if it menas you arn't grinding buts with the player behind you.

So far got a list that feels okay for while we are learning but against an optimised marine list I dont want to see how quickly it just evaporates.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ice_can wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Unfortunatly while not sewing taping yes. People follow gw and tournaments like lemmings even when change is just for money(and aren't even hiding it. Itc flat out said it's to get more paying players to events).

Despite minimum by definition not be optimal

You say like lemmings but events are on the new sizes so if your trying to practice for when you can attend an event not much point practicing on a different size.

Well the social distancing at events will be funny watching the impact on events, but also some personal space which is likely to be mandatory due to social distancing might just change people's opinions that it's worth having more expensive events if it menas you arn't grinding buts with the player behind you.

So far got a list that feels okay for while we are learning but against an optimised marine list I dont want to see how quickly it just evaporates.


Yeah, when a board is set up it'd be a bit awkward to go - 'hey can we play on the old sizes?' - and when asked why we'd go 'umm, so that my army works better'.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




PL updates are up for the Crusade oriented folks. Unfortunately, barring the morbidly overcosted Crisis units that came down to something resembling playability (bodyguard units made out pretty damn good all things considered), there isnt much good news. Several units that should have gone down (when looked at by the points spread formula that most armies appear to have been calculated by) by 1 or 2 didnt, and others that should have stayed the same went up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 16:13:30


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




They also Errata'd some point's etc.
RIP Tau'nar.

Either someone thibks the Tau codex works in 9th or someone's been feeding GW some BS information to make Tau uncompetitive.
   
Made in de
Hungry Ghoul



Germany

I'm not sure, what to make of the changes...
Even though some of our stuff got cheaper, it doesn't seem consistent
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






A lot of things are inconsistent as a whole with the new prices

And honestly, with the upcoming SM codex apparently changing the entire game with the new statlines and weapons, it leaves one wondering just what was the point of even having CA2020 point changes, seeing how the entire meta is going to flip around like crazy.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Multi-melta: 2 barrels, 2 shots.
Fusion Blaster: 2 barrels....2 shots? Maybe?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 John Prins wrote:
Multi-melta: 2 barrels, 2 shots.
Fusion Blaster: 2 barrels....2 shots? Maybe?


For Shadowsun's Focused Fusion, maaaaaaaybe. For generic Fusion? Nope.

I am somewhat holding out hope that the Dispersed / Focused become available to battlesuit units in the 9th Codex, but frankly Tau have got far larger structural issues than a few updated weapon profiles.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Sterling191 wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
Multi-melta: 2 barrels, 2 shots.
Fusion Blaster: 2 barrels....2 shots? Maybe?


For Shadowsun's Focused Fusion, maaaaaaaybe. For generic Fusion? Nope.

I am somewhat holding out hope that the Dispersed / Focused become available to battlesuit units in the 9th Codex, but frankly Tau have got far larger structural issues than a few updated weapon profiles.


Oh, I agree that Tau have lots of issues (like internal codex balance) and would love to see a return of Shas'o lieutenant commanders and Monats...but battlesuit weaponry is going to be REALLY lackluster in the face of 2 wound Space Marines.

   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

 John Prins wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
Multi-melta: 2 barrels, 2 shots.
Fusion Blaster: 2 barrels....2 shots? Maybe?


For Shadowsun's Focused Fusion, maaaaaaaybe. For generic Fusion? Nope.

I am somewhat holding out hope that the Dispersed / Focused become available to battlesuit units in the 9th Codex, but frankly Tau have got far larger structural issues than a few updated weapon profiles.


Oh, I agree that Tau have lots of issues (like internal codex balance) and would love to see a return of Shas'o lieutenant commanders and Monats...but battlesuit weaponry is going to be REALLY lackluster in the face of 2 wound Space Marines.


If all this stuff is for real, I fully agree with the need to update our rules. For a elite 'shooty' army, it certainly doesn't feel that way. OTOH, I'm glad that I still have all my Missile Pods.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 carldooley wrote:

If all this stuff is for real, I fully agree with the need to update our rules. For a elite 'shooty' army, it certainly doesn't feel that way. OTOH, I'm glad that I still have all my Missile Pods.


To be entirely, 100% crystal clear: this is all wishlisting. There are no hints as to how (if at all) the army will be adjusted in the new Codex, nor how long we'll have to wait for that update.
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Seeing how even our plasma has failed to update when imperial plasma did long long ago-I wouldn't bet on us getting any updates.

GW does not care about tau at all, in case it wasn't clear from how absurdly unimaginative and effortless our codex is.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in no
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Norway, Tønsberg

What do you guys think of bringing a a riptide or two in FSE?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 killerpenguin wrote:
What do you guys think of bringing a a riptide or two in FSE?

Why not? A Riptide is still a Riptide and unfortunately despite the NERF it's still one of our best units.
The issue is keeping them alive with shield drones now being over costed.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Enclaves are a poor match for riptides due to the fly changes, but as stated even without their tenet powering them up they're still one of the best units in the Tau arsenal.
   
Made in no
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Norway, Tønsberg

Sterling191 wrote:
Enclaves are a poor match for riptides due to the fly changes, but as stated even without their tenet powering them up they're still one of the best units in the Tau arsenal.


You can fall back and shoot if you use montka, since it’s stated as being a “movement” and montka ignores the move.from the latest Goonhammer tau article. And with Farsight you can do it twice pr game.

Just had game against sisters, didn’t have time to finish, pretty close. Ignore -2 and 6+ fnp and 3+ armour is a pain for tau.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 killerpenguin wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Enclaves are a poor match for riptides due to the fly changes, but as stated even without their tenet powering them up they're still one of the best units in the Tau arsenal.


You can fall back and shoot if you use montka, since it’s stated as being a “movement” and montka ignores the move.from the latest Goonhammer tau article. And with Farsight you can do it twice pr game.

Just had game against sisters, didn’t have time to finish, pretty close. Ignore -2 and 6+ fnp and 3+ armour is a pain for tau.


Im aware of the Mont'Ka loophole. It will be FAQed.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sterling191 wrote:
 killerpenguin wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Enclaves are a poor match for riptides due to the fly changes, but as stated even without their tenet powering them up they're still one of the best units in the Tau arsenal.


You can fall back and shoot if you use montka, since it’s stated as being a “movement” and montka ignores the move.from the latest Goonhammer tau article. And with Farsight you can do it twice pr game.

Just had game against sisters, didn’t have time to finish, pretty close. Ignore -2 and 6+ fnp and 3+ armour is a pain for tau.


Im aware of the Mont'Ka loophole. It will be FAQed.

That aside the other small upside though not being in combat would be better is to remember that you still get your rerolls for being farsight if your shooting at units that close.
That said I still feel like we are being charged points that just don't relate to the rules we have currently.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




I think I'd either take the HBC+ATS+CDS to provide FtGG support playing up with others and trying to keep the screening up.

Or the Ion Accelerator prototype to play in the backfield. Maybe with EWO to try and scare off eliminators and the like. Maybe drone controller and some marker drones to put up it's own markers without dropping CP on it.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






So a pair of twitch channels are doing a 'paint a Start Collecting in 48 hrs' thing and I'm going to paint along by doing a box of Start Collecting Tau, as Farsight Enclaves (currently I do bog standard Tau Sept). I will be substituting a Cadre Fireblade for the Ethereal (because no Ethereals in FSE) but am in the planning/building phase and I'd like some advice. I'd like a reasonably self-contained Patrol for small games, but also am thinking about expanding it to the Batallion level because I have quite a bit of Tau on the shelf of shame I should paint but am right bored of grey armored tau. So on to the questions.

1.) Crisis Loadouts: I have some CIBs from Shapeways I haven't been using, so I'm thinking 2xCIB and ATS. This seems effective and futureproof, especially with the extra markerlight trait of FSE within 12" (so always re-roll 1's). Though I do wonder with the price bump on Shield Drones if just taking Shield Generators wouldn't be a good play. Also with the way saves are taken in 9th, is it worth taking Iridium Armor on one of them to soak up the small arms fire?

2.) Breachers rather than Strike Team, because I have a ton of Tau Sept Strike Team and FSE loves that close shooting. Should I bother with pistols? I know a dedicated CC unit will render them moot but those lone fast CC characters might not kill enough breachers to avoid getting pistol whipped a bit. For drones, Guardian Drone and Markerlight seem fairly obvious, but given FSE advantage maybe just a gun drone because I can't rack up a high number of markerlights anyways

3.) SC Tau has 5 Shield Drones, though I can easily scrounge up an extra shield drone to make it 6. Should I bother or go for something a bit more balanced, especially if I take Shield Generators on the Crisis? Or just stick with the all powerful lord-and-savior Shield Drones?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Honestly right now the codex needs to be redesigned for 9th edition.

Magnets are really the only way for crisis suits, GW has put players on notice they are throwing the weapons stats in the bin, or might be in the case of xeno codex's.

Also ap -1and -2 is not a sweet spot as GW seemed to be introducing ignore AP abilities/traits strats, which Ap -3 or more seems to be okay for now.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Ice_can wrote:
Honestly right now the codex needs to be redesigned for 9th edition.


Yes, but it's likely to be as much as a year before that happens. I'm sure GW will buff flamers to 12" and Fusion will get the melta buff, but I doubt Ion weapons will stop being competitive - they'll probably get buffed too, unless they've decided to treat Ion like they did Rail weapons.

Magnets are really the only way for crisis suits,


I can do magnets, that's less of an issue as to what I should be using in the interim.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah the issue is we are stuck living in this odd ball situation where who knows what the weapon stats will be like in 2 months.

Personally for crisis suits I'm finding myself being a bit more experimental with either mass AFP, to just dump past Obscuring Terrain. Also hear some rumbling of top players being pro missle pods as they mean you can keep your suits at a safer range while still bringing damage on the opposition.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Ice_can wrote:
Yeah the issue is we are stuck living in this odd ball situation where who knows what the weapon stats will be like in 2 months.

Personally for crisis suits I'm finding myself being a bit more experimental with either mass AFP, to just dump past Obscuring Terrain. Also hear some rumbling of top players being pro missle pods as they mean you can keep your suits at a safer range while still bringing damage on the opposition.


Well I don't have much AFPs. and while the Missile Pod logic is sound enough (I have missile Crisis for Tau Sept), most of the benefits of FSE skews towards short range.

   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




2x CIB ATS is a lot of firepower and a worthwhile loadout. They're going to need drones to eat firepower directed at them though.

Missile Pods are a fine FSE choice. You get the markerlight(s) from Aerial targeting or the Coordinated Engagement strat.

I'm actually fiddling with a cheap 3-suit Plasma Rifle squad as some gum in the works. You can pick burst canons or AFP instead, I like the Rifle since it doesn't just bounce off Marines in cover. they aren't killy by any means but with shield gen(s) and Iridium they make a speedbump.

On Breachers:
The pistols are free now. Why not take them?
I'd take a shield+guardian drone with them if you have the 5 points - it makes the teensy unit annoyingly hard to budget firepower against. I wouldn't take a marker, maybe a gun drone.
The stratagem to use their guns as Pistols can be extremely good if they survive getting charged as can the strat to shoot full-power at max range. Right now they're the way to go for mid-board objective troops regardless of sept.

Drones: Shield drones are still pretty good if you just want the ablative wounds. But others do look more interesting now. In FSE I probably wouldn't do markers but gun drones are a lot of shots per point.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/06 00:55:55


 
   
 
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