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From Verifiably Sane @ Warseer:

Librarians.
9 powers:
Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer,
Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn,
Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk...,
Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24",
Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration.
Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,
Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2,
Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10, libby only
Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter...

I am somewhat underwhelmed here.
Avenger: Not bad, a good compromise from overly powerful to useable but not over the top.
Force dome: meh
Gate of infinity: kinda cool but I need to see the rule to know how it exactly works
Machine curse: meh
Might of ancients: meh
Nullzone: kinda meh, but really hoses deamons
Smite: meh and unoriginal
Quickening: since it is libby only (asked him again to confirm and he did) it is not only meh, but rather pointless
Vortex of doom: useful, again nice compromise.

No more broken and cheap abilities any more.

I really do miss might of heroes.... it wasnt broken and the cost was maybe a few points too cheap, but it was good.

Nullzone does a good number on the seer council as well

If all are true, I like the list except for Quickening. I'd really rather not see a lot of powers that are just broken (Lash) ruin the game.

I'm glad to see there is no more Fear of the Darkness.

The powers aren't overwhelmingly awesome, but not completely useless. I'm curious to see how they can be untelized with the rest of the Marine army.

Thanks for the update.

Null Zone equals autowin for Marines vs Demons....?

Might of Ancients looks okay to me, actually. Against a lot of opponents, that is a 2+ to wound with a power weapon. And if you absolutely need that tank opened up, the librarian can do it easily, especially with the new HtH rules against vehicles.

Machine Curse is neat too, an almost automatic "you can't shoot" power. Anything else rolled on the Glancing chart removes a weapon or stops it, so it's not terrible for just rolling 10 or under on 2D6...

Quickening IS kinda pointless...

whitedragon wrote:Null Zone equals autowin for Marines vs Demons....?

No, Nullzone and the Storm Speeder X 3 = autowin for Marines If they get first turn, the Demon player might as well pack up.

The effectiveness of the Librarian will essentially come down to whether or not they can use their Force Weapon the same turn they use another ability.

Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer,

-I can see much use for this, especially in Terminator Squads with an attached Librarian.

Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn,

- Can you see Vets with Relic Blades and an attached Jet pack Librarian. I can.

Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk...,

- Depends if the squad can shoot heavy weapons or not, otherwise it's a glorified veil.

Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24",

- Be a good way to deal with vehicles out of line of sight. Also useful if you play in an area that sees a lot of trucks, but otherwise, I can't imagine the tournament scene using it.

Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration.

- If you are able to combine the force weapon with this, awsome. If not, still awesome.

Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,

- Will mess with many o' Eldar and Deamon player. Also good if you know you are facing lots of Terminators or Cybork bodies. Not tournament useful enough for all comers lists.

Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2,

- Smite keeps changing, and changing and....

Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10, libby only

- Jump Pack Libby anyone, that is an insane combat range.

Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter...

- My favorite of the bunch. Like marines own little Shockk attack gun.



Overall, none of them will have the mandatory status of the previous codex, but I think that is a good thing. The Librarian should be an equal choice with the Chaplain or the Force Commander and shouldn't out shine them like the previous codex in some cases. We still have yet to see a lot of the combos that can come from this codex to put the powers in perspective, but I am already seeing a Jump pack Chaplian and Librarian led Jump Pack Veteran Squad that will just wreck units, even Carnifexes...

No, Nullzone and the Storm Speeder X 3 = autowin for Marines If they get first turn, the Demon player might as well pack up.

Yeah, but who is going to bring that to a tournament.

these powers look good, depending on the points cost. FoD and FuA were both broke, but these powers look to be pretty good. A libby with a jump pack in a squad of assault marines or the new vets. the veil power could be sick with a squad of the sterngaurd vets with low ap boltes or lots of combi weapons. vortex actually makes sense now instead of including all kinds of dumb special rules for it.

do you know how many powers the libby can take?

also, is the 24 inch hood rule universal know? if so, that really blows and makes the eldar runes of warding even more stupidly uber.

i think these look pretty cool to be honest, and not rediculous like some powers have been in previous additions.

I think I am going to take that Ork Weirdboy that turns ICs into Squigs every game now to try to combat these crazy ICs and prevent these powers from existing.

They seem more fair than the last batch that came out for the Libby. Some still seem pretty sick though. I think its funny how Vortex of Doom could scatter back onto the Libby squad. -5" of course thanks to the Libby's BS, but it could still hit someone.

I disagree with Mahu on the Machine Curse. It says shooting attack, shooting attacks require LOS unless otherwise specificed.

nkelsch wrote:I think I am going to take that Ork Weirdboy that turns ICs into Squigs every game now to try to combat these crazy ICs and prevent these powers from existing.

Yes, combat good with broken.

Ironic.

Hellfury wrote:

nkelsch wrote:I think I am going to take that Ork Weirdboy that turns ICs into Squigs every game now to try to combat these crazy ICs and prevent these powers from existing.

Yes, combat good with broken.

Ironic.

Its not that bad. Zogworts Curse only has an 18" range. So psychic hood always in effect. Then it depends on how many orks are around Zoggy for his LD, then its winning on a D6 roll off.

Uber power tempered by probably not working most of the time. You have to get 3 dice rolls to go your way.

Wait, Jervis psychic powers suck?

Say it ain't so.

Can't comment further.

These rumors can't be true. The return to hero hammer should equal better ubber psychic powers. Maybe the hero psychers have better options like Mephiston were they can cast 3-4 per turn.

At least there's something of a psychic phase left.

I was worried that we were headed all the way back to third editions Marine Psykers = Guy with 1 silly shooting power/and or useless attack buff.

Someone bring me up to speed on the range of powers now available to the various races, there seems to be an options fest going on here:

SMs now on 9
Orks 5-7 (mostly random, thanks to Jayden63)
Eldar 5+4 (Farseer+'Lock)
CSM 7 (4 are Chaos power-exclusive)
IG 5 (entirely random selection, thanks to BrookM)
Daemons ??

Is the number of options tending upwards? Is it encouraging HeroHammer (something I really dislike)? Or just an honest intent to give us more choice (and presumably more powers that aren't fully playtested)?

PS. I'd take 3rd edition psychics over the 2nd edition CCG version any day. Ultimate Power FTW!!1! etc.

Orks have 5 powers that are all randomly rolled.

One other power that is unique to a specific psycher

One other ability where if you roll a shooting attack type power while Engaged in HTH your attacks become powerweapons.

So technially there are 7, but only one is a sure thing, everything else is random.

Tribune wrote:
PS. I'd take 3rd edition psychics over the 2nd edition CCG version any day. Ultimate Power FTW!!1! etc.

Please!

You might as well as not had ANY psychic powers at all in 3rd, as far as the Imperium was concerned.

So much for Man's Emergence as a Psychic Race...

And yeah, Ultimate Power for the Win indeed!

Imperial Guard psykers are required to roll a D6 and randomly get one of five psychic powers.

I like them. Presumably the variety makes up for say no Warptime.

Alpha, I'd still rather the minimal 3rd ed to the ridiculous overkill of 2nd. But then 2nd ed was pretty much the Overkill Edition in all sorts of ways. It worries me when people champion that version of the game as some sort of halcyon age.

Tribune wrote:Alpha, I'd still rather the minimal 3rd ed to the ridiculous overkill of 2nd. But then 2nd ed was pretty much the Overkill Edition in all sorts of ways. It worries me when people champion that version of the game as some sort of halcyon age.

yeah eldar swooping hawk exarch type character (?) with fricking vortex grenades. Imperial guard taking eldar titans... the list of stupidity was pretty high. After watching a dozen or so games, I skipped that edition entirely.

I guess when I say I am non plussed by the powers its because I am used to a bit of power in them.

Early third had....smite *woot?* then it just got progressively stronger after that. Balance through escalation I suppose.

I definitely don't want to see a 3 point power where you do d6 str 5 hits in a to every unit that crosses through a straight line across the board without LOS again.
I am sure these powers will be fine. It will just take getting used to. I still don't see much point in Quickening though. Especially if the point cost is high.

Beats Hellfire & Force Barrier, lol

also, is the 24 inch hood rule universal know? if so, that really blows and makes the eldar runes of warding even more stupidly uber.

I'd disagree with this statement.

I play BT and Eldar.

BT can have their own defence against psychics. If they decide to choose it.

Eldar - I've seen one basic libby ruin a strong eldar psychic list with dice rolls.

I know it comes down to dice rolls however I think the 24" range makes it a bit fairer.

The stronger offensive Eldar powers are closer ranged, 24" or less.

So these powers, if true, make it a bit more tactical.

Just MHO.

Hellfury wrote:

Tribune wrote:Alpha, I'd still rather the minimal 3rd ed to the ridiculous overkill of 2nd. But then 2nd ed was pretty much the Overkill Edition in all sorts of ways. It worries me when people champion that version of the game as some sort of halcyon age.

yeah eldar swooping hawk exarch type character (?) with fricking vortex grenades. Imperial guard taking eldar titans... the list of stupidity was pretty high. After watching a dozen or so games, I skipped that edition entirely.

I guess when I say I am non plussed by the powers its because I am used to a bit of power in them.

Early third had....smite *woot?* then it just got progressively stronger after that. Balance through escalation I suppose.

I definitely don't want to see a 3 point power where you do d6 str 5 hits in a to every unit that crosses through a straight line across the board without LOS again.
I am sure these powers will be fine. It will just take getting used to. I still don't see much point in Quickening though. Especially if the point cost is high.

An update for the powers:

The Librarian Upgrade (Epistolary) gets two powers
You choose any two, which are free with the Librarian (Of course, depending on his cost...how free will they be...)
You can cast two a turn

So, you could take Quickening and Might of Heroes and have:

Str. 6, Ini. 10 powerweapon hits ...or...
Str. 4 Ini. 10 Force Weapon hits....or...
Str. 6 Force Weapon hits

Not breaking...but not bad.

@Tribune - you've also got Daemonhunters and Witchhunters each with 7.

AgeOfEgos wrote:


An update for the powers:

The Librarian Upgrade (Epistolary) gets two powers
You choose any two, which are free with the Librarian (Of course, depending on his cost...how free will they be...)
You can cast two a turn

So, you could take Quickening and Might of Heroes and have:

Str. 6, Ini. 10 powerweapon hits ...or...
Str. 4 Ini. 10 Force Weapon hits....or...
Str. 6 Force Weapon hits

Not breaking...but not bad.

It really pisses me off when they release a brand new rule set and the very first codex (always space marines) that comes out has something that ignores all the damn rules. Its almost like the entire book at some point doesn't apply to them.

Why are the marines getting evrything?
Hello, Dark Eldar need a new codex bad! or guard, why are the marines getting eveything, im so sick of every six months they get a ship load of stuff when other races are falliing behind!

I know it's unrealistic but if it were possible and the various books could all be written at the same time and play tested together the Space Marine changes wouldn't look so crazy I mean they could just release models a little later for the sake of balance. But seeing as that will never happen it's gonna look awfully unfair for a while.

Hellfury wrote:Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer,
Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn,
Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk...,
Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24",
Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration.
Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,
Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2,
Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10, libby only
Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter...

So we have the old Squat Force Dome, we have 'The Gate', but it's more useless (can't assault after using it), we have Machine Curse that might be a slight inconvenience, Might of the Ancients, also known as Iron Arm back in 2nd Ed, Null Zone - an old Tyranid Biomorph from 2nd Ed - Smite in all its smite-y-ness, Quickening (now with out the 'The' before it), and Vortex with a silly bit added at the end (when is a Vortex not 'of doom' - it was hardly going to be Vortex of Friendship was it?).

It all feels like Jervis has been at it. Very 2nd Ed-y as far as types are concerned mixed with the blandness you'd expect from an early 3rd Ed Jervis'ed edition of the powers.

Sounds great... if you're into things that are dull.

BYE