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Notice the new drop pod models, in a fully deployed mode, are "in bloom" and occupy a lot of space. Notice that with true line of sight, they won't impede LoS to even a grot. Notice that enemy and friendly models count as impassable terrain.

Now, deploy two of the new pods close to each other so their "petals" are touching or within 28 mm of each other...

I suppose this has always been possible if one used FW pods instead of the various non-GW versions, but all of the non-GW pods I've seen used have been roughly cylindrical and not particularly large... the new GW model, if deployed "blooming", has a huge impassable terrain footprint compared to the pods I've seen in game.

What happens next before "immobile vehicles count as difficult terrain" becomes a standard houserule?

You shoot it for about two seconds (or assault it) and make it difficult terrain.

Doing that is just like beggging to have people modify their flying bases multiple times per turn to deny you cover saves AND los to their skimmer (the amazing jumping skimmer is back)

Iorek wrote:You shoot it for about two seconds (or assault it) and make it difficult terrain.

Not that it's difficult to kill an AV12 vehicle... but if so, then don't the marines suddenly get a lot of "must-kill" AV12 targets on the board? At AV12, while not hard to kill, it is requiring dedicated anti-vehicle fire to blow up reliably. And then you have to choose whether to apply that AV power to the pods or something packing actual weaponry.

And since they're AV12 all sides, they're actually harder to kill than a Predator in assault, since you need some manner of S6 (or Rending) attack to kill them.

Of course, some lists simply aren't going to care, but if you're playing Orks or 'Nids and need to move a lot of models around and can't trivially kill AV12, empty pods dropped mid-field could be a pretty serious hindrance.

Lowinor: Man, I need to re-read my codex; I was thinking that they were AV10 open-topped. That's my mistake. Seems that I don't have a good solution for you.

cypher wrote:Doing that is just like beggging to have people modify their flying bases multiple times per turn to deny you cover saves AND los to their skimmer (the amazing jumping skimmer is back)

What? A model has ONE base. You don't get to keep swapping it out. Otherwise I could crack my guys off of smaller bases and glue them onto larger ones when I feel like it as well.

I predict that drop pods will be popular. The deathwind launcher is immensely better with the new rules for blast weapons. BS2 isn't such a hindrance anymore.

What? A model has ONE base. You don't get to keep swapping it out. Otherwise I could crack my guys off of smaller bases and glue them onto larger ones when I feel like it as well.

true, but unless you deploy your pods the same way every time (those doors dont have to be down) then im modifing my models on a situation by situation basis too...

Deathwind launcher may be better but it is still expensive.

cypher wrote:

What? A model has ONE base. You don't get to keep swapping it out. Otherwise I could crack my guys off of smaller bases and glue them onto larger ones when I feel like it as well.

true, but unless you deploy your pods the same way every time (those doors dont have to be down) then im modifing my models on a situation by situation basis too...

Deathwind launcher may be better but it is still expensive.

I'm not quite understanding what you're arguing.

You're saying that under true LOS they don't block when deployed doors down, correct? (Which I believe would be the way they need to be deployed to be honest.

Once down they count as impassable terrain. Also correct?

So the crux of the argument is that units deploying behind them would be able to fire out, but the impassable nature would potentially hinder assaulting troops for a turn to go around when a few of them are deployed close together? And that basically it forces an army to devote some AT to destroying them, and thus making them difficult terrain? I don't really see what the problem here is, or what you would be modifying on a situation by situation basis. Just because you don't like how something works doesn't mean you get to create your own way of using it with something that was never intended to be the same. Once a drop pod is down I would think that it would be required for the doors to deploy and stay down, the storm bolter/deathwind is on the inside of the doors.

derek wrote:So the crux of the argument is that units deploying behind them would be able to fire out, but the impassable nature would potentially hinder assaulting troops for a turn to go around when a few of them are deployed close together? And that basically it forces an army to devote some AT to destroying them, and thus making them difficult terrain? I don't really see what the problem here is, or what you would be modifying on a situation by situation basis. Just because you don't like how something works doesn't mean you get to create your own way of using it with something that was never intended to be the same. Once a drop pod is down I would think that it would be required for the doors to deploy and stay down, the storm bolter/deathwind is on the inside of the doors.

Yep, basically. Via true LoS, you'd probably need to deploy them blooming to be able to fire their weaponry anyway. The issue I'm seeing is they now have a much larger footprint (especially as the empty space between the petals, while open, is effectively rendered useless until the pod is destroyed -- doubling the diameter quadruples the area, and with petals extended pods are easily double the diameter of closed pods), and will always block movement for the first turn they're down (as you can't convert them to difficult terrain until at least the shooting phase after they land, making them impassable with no alternative the first movement phase).

A couple of empty pods is going to delay the charge of anything that's not jump infantry by at least a turn -- and then they're going to have to be destroyed as a reasonably high priority, effectively giving other SM vehicles what amounts to cheap ablative wounds.

DP are nice and all but multiple DP in a Kill Point mission and any army with 1/2 decent anti-armor is going to thank their makers for a bevy of easy KP.

Yes Lowinor, it's a obvious and tactic. I don't think anyone is surprised by it. What do you want, how to stop it?

You can't. Smurfs need to really sell, because GW's in the , so they're getting all kinds of bull.

What else is new? This round of Codex Creep is going to be an avalanche?

Smurfs won't suck 3 minutes after release? FINALLY!

I look forward to being cheesed.

cypher wrote:
true, but unless you deploy your pods the same way every time (those doors dont have to be down)

If the doors aren't down, how do the marines get out?

I want rules for my Ork drop-pods! Then they will know the true definition of modeling exploitation!

Nah really I got epicast drop pods I want rules for.

I can see it harming certain armies, assault Nids mostly, but there's also bonuses associated. Orks, for example, will get cover saves when far away and are guaranteed a certain # of inches (instead of running) for assaulting, auto hitting an immobilized vehicle and slapping the crap out of it with 4 S8 attacks or so. Guard and Tau will be able to get cover and easy kill points.

It'll be irritating to some army lists, but irritating and beneficial to some others.

Redbeard wrote:

cypher wrote:
true, but unless you deploy your pods the same way every time (those doors dont have to be down)

If the doors aren't down, how do the marines get out?

I do expect, though, to see a huge YMTC-go-round once the models and book hits on how exactly you have to put your pods on the table if you model them with movable doors.

sourclams wrote:I can see it harming certain armies, assault Nids mostly, but there's also bonuses associated. Orks, for example, will get cover saves when far away and are guaranteed a certain # of inches (instead of running) for assaulting, auto hitting an immobilized vehicle and slapping the crap out of it with 4 S8 attacks or so. Guard and Tau will be able to get cover and easy kill points.

It'll be irritating to some army lists, but irritating and beneficial to some others.

How beneficial it is to some armies is pretty drastically limited by the SM player being the one who decides where the pods go, and whether there are even troops inside them...

Marines deploy from Rhino's all the time with doors not down. Doesn't a drop pod count as "open topped?" It doesn't have access points, does it, so it shouldn't matter.

yeah,

So when deploying, i can see tactically why a player might want to:

1)Leave doors closed. to Block LOS to his troops .
2)to open all the doors. to block enemy movement.

I understand that you think of this is modeling on the fly (to your advantage)... but lots of GW models have moving parts that we move during the game turrets sponsons etc...

why would drop pod doors be any different? after the troops are out what's to stop me closing the doors. I do this all the time with my Land Raider, (mostly because it looks cool!)

I don't see Why this would be a problem, think of this as the marines making a tactical decision.

Does anyone know if Chaos will get a FAQ or something to give them access to Drop Pods? DreadClaws?

PanIc...

whitedragon wrote:Doesn't a drop pod count as "open topped?"

Yes, they do. I'm still struggling with why it's such a big deal. I can see how it can be abused, but I don't think if my opponent dropped two pods close together to block an assault lane it's something I'll be throwing my hands in the air and giving up a game over.

What happens when they drop 4 to 6 of them though. Thats when pods get really interesting, when they can line up to cut off half of the table.

Redbeard wrote:If the doors aren't down, how do the marines get out?

Uh - probably the same way they get out of Land Raider assault ramps that can't open - or Rhino doors, Falcon hatches, etc, etc, etc... doors have never had to open.

Jayden63 wrote:What happens when they drop 4 to 6 of them though. Thats when pods get really interesting, when they can line up to cut off half of the table.

It's basically forcing lists to take weapons able to deal with them. This isn't a new concept really. Metagaming has been around as long as gaming has.

I was under the impression, fluff wise, that when the pod hits the dirt the doors are blown open with explosive bolts and the marines charge out guns blazing. I don't believe the pods are built to be resealed and fly back to the ship on their own. After the battle the pods are collected by support landers and returned to the battle barge.

That said, I feel the pods should be deployed doors down. Otherwise, what's to stop me from choosing, situationally, to deploy doors down, doors up, or mixed, on each pod I land? Doors down at least limits the space it can actually fit into.

Also, isn't there a rule about ignoring everything but the hull of a vehicle for the within 1" rule? My wave serpent has vanes on the front of the hull, but I'm pretty sure enemy models can be within 1" of them. I would argue that the pod doors don't count as the hull of the vehicle...

I'm glad I have the Forgeworld Drop Pods-block line of sight AND movement!

derek wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:What happens when they drop 4 to 6 of them though. Thats when pods get really interesting, when they can line up to cut off half of the table.

It's basically forcing lists to take weapons able to deal with them. This isn't a new concept really. Metagaming has been around as long as gaming has.

Yeah, but now all those HBs and flamers that people are taking instead of Las/plas will not harm a Drop Pod. There are some advantages going mechanized when everyone starts changing out to lower strength high fire rate weapons.

Krak_kirby wrote:I was under the impression, fluff wise, that when the pod hits the dirt the doors are blown open with explosive bolts and the marines charge out guns blazing. I don't believe the pods are built to be resealed and fly back to the ship on their own. After the battle the pods are collected by support landers and returned to the battle barge.

That said, I feel the pods should be deployed doors down. Otherwise, what's to stop me from choosing, situationally, to deploy doors down, doors up, or mixed, on each pod I land? Doors down at least limits the space it can actually fit into.

Also, isn't there a rule about ignoring everything but the hull of a vehicle for the within 1" rule? My wave serpent has vanes on the front of the hull, but I'm pretty sure enemy models can be within 1" of them. I would argue that the pod doors don't count as the hull of the vehicle...

And I think this is a lot of what the question is - fluffwise, we know they're supposed to blow the doors off, but there's nothing in the rules to say that this happens. Frankly, I was wondering this back when the 4E Marine codex came out and I had my FW drop pods. I was always surprised back then that no one was interested in this discussion at the time. I dropped my questions about it when I saw pic after pic of folks using drop pods in tourneys with the doors up. I do hope that GW decides to resolve this either in the rules or shortly after the new codex comes out.

I think the biggest issue is how they will block LOS. My pod doors are glued shut so the block LOD now however if i open them will los not be blocked so they can be shot through. I know it will give a cover save however gled shut they get no shot at all.

Unless otherwise specified, I'm leaving my doors glued shut for the sole purpose that they will be easier to transport and completely eliminates the possibilty of having the doors broken off by accident.

and also against swarm army's if you've got 4-6 with deathwind launchers not only do you cut the table in halve but the army disappears fairly quickly

Lowinor wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

cypher wrote:
true, but unless you deploy your pods the same way every time (those doors dont have to be down)

If the doors aren't down, how do the marines get out?

I do expect, though, to see a huge YMTC-go-round once the models and book hits on how exactly you have to put your pods on the table if you model them with movable doors.

Agreed. I sincerely hope that GW has the foresight to address this in the codex before release. its a huge can of worms, and rightfully so.
Do they have to have doors down to make a huge foot print? or can they keep the doors up and allowing blocking of LOS?

Its going to cause huge headaches, even more so than presently.