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Any thoughts on a first-pass concept for my Chicago GT list:

Emperor's Children

Flying Lash Prince (155)
Flying Lash Prince (155)
Noise Marines: 9 w/ sonic blasters + Champion w/ doom siren & powerfist (300)
Noise Marines: 8 w/ sonic blasters + Champion w/ sonic blaster & powerfist (265)
Noise Marines: 5 w/ 1 blastmaster (140)
Noise Marines: 5 w/ 1 blastmaster (140)
Two Obliterators (150)
Chaos Land Raider (220)
Chaos Land Raider w/ Dirge Caster (225)

It looks to be very balanced between MEQ and hordes. One concern is the Land Raiders. From the limited pics I've seen from LA Gamesday, terrain looks to be exactly the same as last years tables. Based on that, I don't recall much at all that would get you any type of cover save. While armor 14 is very, very good now, I think Melta weapons trump it. I may be in the minority, but I'm a big fan of Fire Dragons, Exarch, Firepike, Tank Hunter and Crack Shot(although probably not necessary). I've even been toying around with Fuegan(at 1750 points, I may not, however). Locally, a lot of armies have either been going mechanized or multiple armor 14, thus necessitating melta.

How have your playtest games (if any) gone regarding two Chaos Land Raiders? I like the list overall and think you've created a viable tourney list while also trying to retain some of the fluff, which is great to see IMO.

Redbeard wrote:
Flying Lash Prince (155)
Flying Lash Prince (155)

A very strong, solid and flexible HQ, keep them

Redbeard wrote:
Noise Marines: 9 w/ sonic blasters + Champion w/ doom siren & powerfist (300)
Noise Marines: 8 w/ sonic blasters + Champion w/ sonic blaster & powerfist (265)
Noise Marines: 5 w/ 1 blastmaster (140)
Noise Marines: 5 w/ 1 blastmaster (140)

a good strong 4 squad of troops that are both themed and yet practical, well done

Redbeard wrote:
Two Obliterators (150)

I like, these are fantastic CSM exclusive models that have a tool for every problem, they are great kan openers!!!!!

Redbeard wrote:
Chaos Land Raider (220)
Chaos Land Raider w/ Dirge Caster (225)

I fear that you land raiders will be wasted, as there are the only tanks on your list, they will be picked on alot and mostly taken out in the first half of the game, may i suggest taking a squad or two of havoks instead, they fit in with the foot slogging and serve a few purposes, such as pranging kanz open.
Or may a vindicator!! i love them!!!!!

One of the reasons for the land raiders is because they're big enough to block line-of-sight to the daemon princes, something that I'm not sure any terrain at the GT will be able to handle.

They're also the transports for the big noise marine squads, which are going to need to go and get to objectives. Noise marines are expensive and no more resilient than other MEQs, so walking to objectives seems out of the question. Noise marines are solid assault troops as well, and so the ability to pour 19 of them out of land raiders into assault should cause some armies real problems.

yeah,
I agree that the landraiders are questionable... not totally out there though.
kill tanks provide cover transport troops...
lots of uses they can also contain the last man of a dying squad to protect his KP.
but they do clock up 445pts!

without the landraiders you can deepstrike (with the wings) the deamon princes into whatever little cover there is.
but that will deny you the lash for a couple of turns...?

vindicators are great, blast strength 10 with armour 13 on the front.
PIE thats Good at taking out hoards and high toughness elites.
hell i've lost two squads of PMs in two turns to a vindicator sitting on the objective i had to assault... In KP range is a issue at 24"... but you have the lashs.
a pair will come in at 250pts, leaving you with another 200 to spend. and they offer some cover to your princes, you don't count wings as part of the model for TLOS.

two preditors one annihilator one destructor, again with av13 on the front... more balanced weapons...
destructors are cheap at 100pts.. annhilators not so cheap...

a couple of rhinos can race to contest objectives in the last turns...

My thoughts
PAnic...

Panic wrote:
but they do clock up 445pts!

But they've tended to survive in 5th ed. So far...

without the landraiders you can deepstrike (with the wings) the deamon princes into whatever little cover there is.
but that will deny you the lash for a couple of turns...?

I really don't want to keep models off the table if I can avoid it, and deep strike is so unreliable, especially if you're going for LOS blocking stuff in 5th. Even slight deviations can leave you sitting in front of a window... And I don't expect there to be much in the way of cover at all, but will wait the Vegas results before making a final judgement about that.

vindicators are great, blast strength 10 with armour 13 on the front.
PIE thats Good at taking out hoards and high toughness elites.

And Armour 11 on the side and Armour 10 on the back.... With one weapon-destroyed result leaving you with a useless hunk. I'm not impressed with short-range pie-plate shooters. They're a big threat, but have to be in vulnerable range to use it. I've got blastmasters and plasma cannons to deal with plague marines, from outside the range they can strike back.

they offer some cover to your princes, you don't count wings as part of the model for TLOS.

I'm not looking for 'some cover', I'm looking for stuff that blocks line-of-sight to them. Lash princes are such a huge threat that any gun that can see them will probably shoot at them. And a 4+ cover save from being partially behind a vindicator isn't going to save them. The Land Raiders are tall enough to completely hide the princes.

a couple of rhinos can race to contest objectives in the last turns...

And can give up kill points pretty easily, and don't allow assaulting out of them, limiting their tactical flexibility.

I've found, playing my Emperor's Children, that tactical flexibility is a must, as is controlling what your opponent can shoot at. Your guys are expensive, so each casualty hurts. I'd rather have Land Raiders, which can hang back firing their lascannons when the situation calls for that, or that can drive a truckload of noise marines down your throat, if that's what is called for.

the LR's could be a prob with tight terrain, i would reccomend dropping them, add a few more oblits and add another unit of noise marines.

while LR's are annoying to kill they will rarely get much use, with oblits they can be used to gun down anything.
and another scoring unit makes it alot more flexible.

yeah,
GT never have Tight terrain!!!
which means the raiders will give cover to his princes, but mostly be sitting in the open..

PaniC...

I like the list it looks very versatile and strong. Although to be honest you lack anti-tank. Those Oblits and the DPs are kind of it against those AV 14s that will undoubtedly be running around. The DPs aren't going to be able to go out and take on the tanks by themselves and the Oblits are going to be overwhelmed with good targets. My suggestion is to drop the dirge caster Land Raider and add 3x Oblits. You still have a Land Raider to hide the last man of a squad, run a squad out to the front lines, drive up on an objective and all sorts of other stuff. Your army is really shooty though and you should try to preserve that. Given that you might drop a land raider you could retool the squad of 8. Dropping the champ and his stuff to get another man into that squad and then there is also 20 points left over to slide in somewhere.

nothing good about leaving 220 or so points sat there for the taking, even if its a shield, best off using a rhino or 2 as shields, block off parts of the board or just kamakazi them into units

JD21290 wrote:the LR's could be a prob with tight terrain, i would reccomend dropping them, add a few more oblits and add another unit of noise marines.

I think two lash princes is pushing it - something I don't feel too bad about because I'm running a solid slaanesh list, but some people might. Combining that with obliterator spam, I think, is overkill, and may lead to bad feelings from opponents. Obliterators weren't part of the old Emperor's Children army. I'm more tempted to cut them completely than to add more, but having one unit gives me at least some hope of dropping a pair of meltaguns in behind a hammerhead that's corner-lurking with it's 4+ cover gadget.

redbeard, i know this may sound very un sporting, but in a GT i tend to go for crushing an opponent, thier feelings are secondary to me.
being a competition its ment for winning, i know its for fun aswell, but i play friendly matches for fun.

only complaint ive had is with my nidzilla army with mass trygons and raveners, and thats because nothing of his army was left in turn 4.

I'm going to have fun. Here's my thoughts on that;

If I go to a GT, or a tournament where painting scores are judged, and sportsmanship scores are handed out, I'd honestly rather win Best Painted than Best General.

So much of tournament play is based on matchups that I'd rather be recognized for the three months I spent making the army look nice than for the three hours that I played it.

If that means taking sub-optimal list choices because I think the models look better, so be it. I'll save the super-mean lists for Gladiator tournaments, 'ard-boyz, and the like.

That doesn't mean I want to take a push-over list. But, I really don't mind losing a game here or there. I don't want to be 'that guy' that no one wants to play against.

So, no obliterator spam. I'm playing Emperor's Children.

only reason i got into all out crushing is last year i lost out on a tourney (got 2nd) due to an army of pure monolith and destroyer spam, since then ive decided not to let it happen again.

ok, less crushy, but more looky, could allways drop a LR for a heavily converted dread, then you get to show off painting and converting aswell as keeping a great theme.

currently working on a catatchin devil convertion for a fex with talons and crushing claws. (still think you should be allowed 2 sets of claws)

but anyway, good luck in the tourney, looks like a nice strong list, most people with chaos get caught up with exensive units, then have no troops to grab objectives.

also, take my advice, if playing against a mono spammer just phase them out
i was 2 models short of doing this when i lost, and to make it worse last shot was a barbed strangler, that missed his warrior unit-_-

Well, if you're going to use the obliterators just to drop in and take out tanks, perhaps consider swapping them for Terminators with combimeltas? Roughly the same points - 4 Termies, 4 combimeltas, a power fist - and they'd be more EC themed.