Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It is about time I planned my wargaming table needs more fully, and have come up with some fresh ideas. Give me your thoughts expereinces and odd solutions.

My requirements:

1. A table big enough for smaller Apocalypse games approx 3,000 points not including super heavies.
2. A table that can also be used for regualar 40K, Warhammer Fantasy, Battlefleet Gothic and Warmachine.
3. It 'would be nice' for the table to serve other purposes, but not essential.

The problems:

I have a smallish London flat, so my space is very limited. I have a dining table I can lay a gaming table on, and it is fairly big, as a dining table, but not big enough to support a large gaming table in such a way as to take any weigh near the edges.

Ideas so far.

1. A foldable tabletop board. I could store this under the double bed easily enough, and it could fit on the dining table. If I fit straps to it, it could be reasonable secure on the dining table with no problems. However I wont be able to customise the surface really.

2. Wall mounted tabletop board. If I wanted a board that was not surfaced I would not be able to fold it and store it other than on the wall. I could make a games table with a rim with sub boards inside with expnanded polystyrene surfacing on them, it wont be hard to do, the main difficulty will be with the weight.

Suggestions so far please.

I myself made a foldable tabletop board.

My friends and I got 2 of those foamcore project/presentation boards (the ones that fold up the sides a bit and look like \__/ from the top) and taped them together - makes a 4'x6' surface. I purchased some green felt and secured that over the boards, so now we have a decent and light-weight table that can fold to 4'x3' and be tucked under a bed easily. It could use some stronger struts across the width of the board, though.

I'll post up pictures of it after work today.

8 foot by 4 foot piece of 1/4" plywood. (I don't know what measurements the UK uses for this). We're going with 1/4" as it's MUCH lighter than the heavier choices. Some may say that this'll cause an issue with the corners drooping when it's on the dining table, but any size plywood will do that. Since any size will need some reinforcing, we'll reinforce the lightest of them.

Cut it in half width-wise so you end up with two 4 foot by 4 foot pieces. Install hinges to recombine the two pieces. You want to install them on the underside so they don't interfere with the game. I'd use 3 or 4 for strength.

Now to add some strength. Get some 1"x1" pieces of wood (also called 1-by). Install them on the underside and build a frame for each of the 4'x4' sections.

Done. Lightweight, folds in half for storage, large enough for a 3000 point game if you use the whole table. Don't use 2 feet and you have the right size for a regular game as well.

If you want to go one extra step further, I'd paint the playing surface a nice dark green. Do NOT try to do this with spray paint, you'll hate yourself. Buy a roller and a gallon of paint and roll it on. You'll be done in no time.

If you have 10k, there's this:

http://www.geekchichq.com/The_Sultan_.html

What's a good size for the Apocalypse table?

8 x 4?
8 x 6?
8 x 8?????

If you go for the lower one of these, what are the possibilities for 2x2 modular boards. This way, you could store them easily, and still model the terrain onto them. Will your dining table support these?

Actually, if you're gonna use this regularly, surely it would be best to go for a flat table, and various terain sets, rather than set terrain modelled onto the table? Playing on the same terrain gets boring...

:/

Thankyou for the replies so far:

HF For. Interesting, foamcore is light and remarkably sturdy and is on my shortlist.

Lormax We use the same standards for building materials supply, despite madatory metrication. The only reall difference is that widths are usually in millimetres, and any block wood is measures larest measure first. So we say 4x2 not 2x4.
Plyywood is good, but denser than foamcore.

ArbitorIan. I will be coming to that. However 8' x 8' is way out, as you cannot easily reach into the middle.

Problem 1 : Size Limitations.

Foldable underbed table.

I want to give my boards a sculpted surface, in particular depthrather than height. Thisd restricts foldable tables heavily. also anything larger than a 6'x4' is going to have real problems with access. Getting out from and back under the bed will be difficult and anything much longer than 6' will not fit.

My bed is a standard double, which is 4'6" wide. Allowing for a little space thing means I can have a folded 8x6 table technically, but in rality it will have to be much smaller, also a folded table that side will not rest easily on my dining table because of the pressure on the fold.


Freestanding foldable table.

Can be bigger, but make even less sense blanaced on my dining table.


Wall mounted table.

Now if my table is a solid piece it can fit on the dining table more easily, the trouble is how to store it. the only answer thatm akes sense is to hang it on the wall. This immediately means I cvan only use one side, as the other must match as a wall hanging.

My living room is a soft light coffee colour wuith chocolate colured curtains along one side and the opposide side is painted chocolate brown as an accent wall. It looks rather good. A wall mounted games table covered in a faux suede in one of many earth cooihurs would work and not redract from the room, until displayed. My living room is about 14ft by 10ft, and is reasonably free. I can fit an 8' by 6' gaming table in there, so long as it can be invisibly packed away.

Now the trouble here is not size, but mass. There is a limit to how much board I can afford to hang on the wall, and mass might be a problem because I have plans.....

malfred wrote:If you have 10k, there's this:

http://www.geekchichq.com/The_Sultan_.html

That is frickin' crazy. Of course, I want one. But dang.....10K. Don't they know we spent all of our money on our hobby? Very cool.

malfred wrote:If you have 10k, there's this:

http://www.geekchichq.com/The_Sultan_.html

That price is absurd. $9650 and delivered to your door, yeah right. Don't get me wrong I spend money faster than the next guy, but a 10k gaming table stops me in my tracks.

That same table can be made yourself for well under 2000 if you know how to use some tools. I may be looking at the beginning of a new dining room table...

Back to the matter at hand, I don't know what you're going to do Orlanth. It sounds like you have wine tastes in your table with beer space in your apartment. You're gonna have to sacrifice somewhere.

Whynot "store" the table, at any thickness, standing vertical behind a door?

Orlanth wrote:Problem 1 : Size Limitations.

Foldable underbed table.

I want to give my boards a sculpted surface, in particular depthrather than height. Thisd restricts foldable tables heavily. also anything larger than a 6'x4' is going to have real problems with access. Getting out from and back under the bed will be difficult and anything much longer than 6' will not fit.

My bed is a standard double, which is 4'6" wide. Allowing for a little space thing means I can have a folded 8x6 table technically, but in rality it will have to be much smaller, also a folded table that side will not rest easily on my dining table because of the pressure on the fold.


Freestanding foldable table.

Can be bigger, but make even less sense blanaced on my dining table.

Depending on how much clearance you have under your bed, you could just make a couple of 4'x2' or 4'x3' pieces of table (maybe thick foam-core?) and make latches of sorts on the sides/bottoms of these pieces so that once put on the table, they become secure and stable. This way, you don't have to have a foldable table, but can still store neatly under your bed.

If you don't go with a foldable table, you could always get like 1-2" thick MDF boards and put dowels along the sides so that separate segments of the table lock up when in use and can be easily pulled apart when you store it.

i to was limmited on the space i had for a gaming table.

i went to menards (they were actualy cheeper then wal-mart) and picked up 3 2 foot by 4 foot folding tabels.

i leave a 4x4 (for small scale 40k or warhammer, and for warmachine) up all the time, and have a 2x4 table folded and out of sight untill i want to play a game of 40k.

got a pice of green felt to throw on top of it, plan on making a nicer table top.

all said and done, around 120 USD.

Problem 2: Table Quality.

My specifications mean I have four, in fact six games I would play on the tabletop. I should add Battletech and Silent Death to the list. This to me mans two preferably three playing surfaces.

1. A grass green playing surface with no identifiable features except huills pine woods and water features. Or a sand based gaming table.

2. A flat black space gaming table

3. A modern/futuristic urban setting.


SPACE BOARD
The space gaming surface I will cover first because it is easiest. It will be flat black with possibly stars 'dotted' on it. Otherwise featrureless, any celestial phenomena for any scale game is added. Thus if needs be a cloth surface over a flat board will do. For a multiple set of boards having one reverse side paintd black is more thna sufficient.

GRASS BOARD
A grass default surface to go with flock bases and any temperate rural setting game. As most fantasy based games require movable terrain for variety this could also be flat. I would like some sculptured depth innorder to have rivers but rivers are permenant and restrict the game, they can also be raised on levees so this is not strictly necessary.
Hills can be a small rise in a skirmish game, a standard fantssy hill or level one or two (or more) terrain for battletech. All trees are pine trees because thecsapling standing next to your Space Marine, High Elf or Warcaster looks like a mature tree nect to an Epic tank or a Battlemech with no stretches of the imagination required.
The only thing I will really miss out are bridges and roads. Which will need to be added as repalcable terrain based on game scale.

One important point, some terrain is movable within games, such as Wood Elves and tree moving spells.

URBAN BOARD
I want to go for a semi urban setting for my 40K and Warmachine boards. Partly because it is an easy way of distinguishing cover for any type of unit. Some of the buildings I want will be big enough to conceal a titan. I will rely heavily on avenues of fire with miore terrain rather than less, avenues of fire pace a better natural restriction than range in apocalypse. You need too large a play surface to make use of range envelopes for the bigger guns.
Ideally I want this terrain board to have a little depth to it, even half an inch will be suficient, so that Ican have drains pavement to road level changes and partly recesed gground floor/basements.

Lormax "It sounds like you have wine tastes in your table with beer space in your apartment." Very true, but I am a gamer. This is the reaasons for this brainstorm and why I am asking for help with ideas and experiences. Some of what I ask for may well be unsuitable, some may be duplicagt ed for less.

"Why not "store" the table, at any thickness, standing vertical behind a door?" There we are instant thread justication in this once sentrence. While not a complete solution this does indeed work. My living room door is always open, a smallr board with a lengthwise fold can fit behind there and not interefere with the light switch. This is a good interim solution, I am however picky about how I store things in my living room. Board behind the door is in a way something not oput away, just hidden, a little like the dirt under the sofa.

HF For. I am intetrested in the latched pieces ides, if you can show me a workable way of doing this.

Better yet is it possible to have a board made up of square tiles that join together in a stay together way. That would be a very nice in-the-cupboard solution if I can just clip together 2x2 tiles. Or is this not realistic?

My first thoughts are that you don't so much need a table as you need modular pieces that can fit together to form a gaming surface.

For base I'd start off by using 4'x2' sections, allowing you make tables in sizes of 4'x4', 4'x'6', and even 4'x8'. You'll need a way to get them to fit together (more on that in a moment) and then I'd simply set them on top of your pre-existing dinner table.

The pieces are going to need to be sturdy and also thin, so you could stack them easily in the closet or slid under the bed. Plywood is IMHO a bad option. To get it in a thickness that won't bend/warp without proper support will mean it'll be to heavy to be of much use. No sense trying to move heavy boards around in a cramped space. I'd recommend pressboard if you can find it. Really, just shop around locally and find a material you like.

Now then, you'll need to get your pieces to fit together in a way where they can be supported if say part of your gaming surface is hanging off the table it's on. My suggestion is to lay two 6' or 8' boards down as a base to set the gaming surface sections on. You could even go so far to get something like cheap door handles (not knobs!) to use as a guide that the thin base boards will slide through. Kinda of like how drawers slide on that guide rail/wood piece beneath them. Next up you'll want to keep the surface boards from sliding apart. Check out the hardware store and look for latch type pieces. Think cabinet latches. You are looking for a thin piece of metal that looks like a hook or a question mark. You can put this on the edge of a board (bottom or thin side) and swivel it to go over a screw as the catch on the next board. That should keep your surface boards from sliding away from each other.

Problem 3: Size Dilemma

Next comes the big question. How big?

The Apocalypse rulebook suggests that for every square foot you can afford 100pts game for the largest side. Though this does not really account for super heavies, which can greatly increase points totals but not significantly tax playable area. Besides it is only a loose recommendation.

6'x4' the standard GW board is a bit small. If I ever do choose this scale I would want a rim adding at least an inch total to each side for convenience.

8'x4' the other standard. This is the standard historical wargames table size and is just right for deploying musket era armies. The only historical armies I have are long unpainted ECW, which are so low on the priority list they can wait. Also ECW battles were relatively small.

Extend length? Not really needed so much, this makes the game bigger, but doesnt add too much ahem - depth. 7' would be nice but not really needed. The way I see this is that extra frontage can ad flavour to a games manoeuver, but 6' wide is more than enough to contain a tactical game at any level.

Extend width? Now I am theorising that I will get more out by doing this instead. Deeper boards mean deeper deployment areas, or a wider no mans land, the range shift of a wider board is less marked than the range shift for eeper boards, so the extra inches go "further". Also when it comes to surface area extending the shorter side is more beneficial than extending the longer.

So how about a 6'x5' or even a 6'x6' table. The latter will be interesting as after terrain is placed by one player, the other has one of four sides to choose from.


Problem 4: Shape Dilemma

Now I want to propose something a little odd. A non rectangular board. An no I am not talking about a square 6'x6' but an octagonal 6'x6', or perhaps even a little larger. I toyed with the idea of a round table at this point, but storage and preparation are unsurmountable options. It would be nice to place down four "corner" markers and thus have the tabletop played from any direction

The first reason to choose octagonal or better round tables is because they are less intrusive into the room. Its the corners that get in the way, remove the corners remove the problem. Even having the last four or so inches shaved off the corner could help.

Also this helps in game, it removes the tempatation to plonk an artillery piece right in the very corner where it can only be got at from the front. An octagonal board draws corner batteries in a bit, gives them a flank and a more reasonable frontage for you to defend with your second line.

Another advantage I saw was that a 6'x6' octagonal board with four 4' sides and 1' corners shaved off, this naturally shows a cruciform double 6'x4' in th board. So you have an instant standard board with an offtable area that is easily demarked by the shape of the table.

An octagonal 6'x6' will have a 34ft square surface area.

The only downside I think of is that a rectangle will look better hanging on my wall, more modern arty than an uneven sides octagon. Though the idea could grow on me.

Your thoughts, impressions, expressions, dont-do-its!! so far again please.

You started out this table post not including super heavies. Then you posted that you plan on having terrain that'll block LOS to titans, meaning you'll have buildings and other such terrain over a foot in height. If you are having trouble finding the storage place for your table, how do you plan on storing all this terrain?

For the game board itself, since you want to be able to use it in different game settings, don't paint the board at all. Just use large sheets of fabric as the base color...black for space (can add white paint "stars" to it easily), green for rural and grey for urban.

You may want to give up the idea of basements or other things that are "lower than table level". You'll have "holes" in your table that will get in the way during your space games. You'll also have to find a material thick enough for the table that allows this. Doing that means you are sacrificing something else...can't use a really thick piece of wood because then weight becomes an issue. A piece of styrofoam or something would fix the weight issue, but then how do you store that?

ACTUALLY, just as I type that, idea. I'm drawing something in paint, I'll post it up in a bit

Edit: Don't go octagon, just, don't

Edit#2:
Here's my idea. Magnetizing your board. Use a 1/4" piece of plywood as your base. This is surprisingly light, even one person can carry this. Cut it in half width-wise, install hinges so that it can be stored easily. See how this does on your table. If the corners seem to droop a bit, buy a 4x4 piece of wood and cut it down as "posts" that can be tucked underneath each of the corners. Ideally these posts would be just as high as your dining room table. If you don't want to store a bunch of heavy, dirty wood, for your posts, a large diameter piece of PVC pipe would work (2-3 inches thick would do well). Divide each table half into 2 foot by 2 foot sections, then drill into the wood a bit near each of the corners of the sections. You don't want to go all the way through, just enough to recess your base magnets into the wood. A larger, thin disc type rare earth magnet would work great. Drop your magnet into the hole, secure it with some kind of glue then wood putty over it. You'll want to do this at EXACTLY the same spot in each section (say 2 inches in from each side of the corner. The reason to do it EXACTLY the same in each section is so that the magnets in the playing surface (see below) match up to any of the 2 foot sections.

For the playing surface itself, 1" (or thicker) thick pink styrofoam or other similar material. If you can't find it thick enough to your liking, double it up. Cut these into 2 foot by 2 foot sections. You would then install magnets into these as well. After recessing the magnet in you'll want to cover it up as well with some kind of putty or even green stuff. This really helps in preventing the magnet from pulling itself out. After installing those, how do we make sure the surface sections don't get bumped around and knocked away from each other? We magnetize them to each other as well. Drill a hole into the sides of each playing surface section, say 8 inches or so from each corner. You want to get them away from the corner magnets so they don't interfere with each other. I would use two per side. After recessing them in, green stuff/putty over them again. After thats dry, use duct tape or electrical tape and cover all of the sides. This will help a lot in preventing damage to your surface sections, especially the corners. You now have a double sided playing surface. One side you can cut into with your hobby knife and make basements, rivers, creekbeds, canals, whatever. Flip it over and it's complete untouched and ready for your space game, rural game, or what have you. I'd still use sheets of fabric when you use the flat side, and paint the side that you cut into with whatever you want. This could allow you to have a whole table of green painted playing surface complete with rivers cut into all the pieces. A second set of playing surface pieces could all be painted grey with building basements or a sewer/aqueduct system cut into it.

I drew up a little pic in paint to help illustrate what I was talking about.

What are the dimensions of your dining table?

Lormax wrote:You started out this table post not including super heavies.

My fault. I sopuld have been more clear, but clarification requires a long winded explanation.

my largs 40K armies are about 3000ish points, being two detatchments of Eldar.
Though I could amalgamate my Army of the Omperium to 4000ptss.

These figures are not inclusing my super heavies. Which surrently standa at one baneblade, one tempest/Scorpion. and soon to be followed by two revenants a Reaver and a Warhound. These more or less double my army sizes, but only add three models to an army count.

Apocalypse boards recommnd 100pts on the largest side per square foot of table surface. So my proposed boards would fit 3k apocalypse, but not 6k apocalypse. Thus I remove super heavies simply because you can fit them in easily enough, on a urban map where view is restricted even though I have 5k-6k a side on a surface suggested for half that.

Kilkrazy wrote:What are the dimensions of your dining table?

Slightly under 55" by 33". Big enough to support a board, so long as there is no great weight on any one side.

You may be trying to do a bit too much in the space available, by playing Apocalypse games.

I suggest constructing a 9*5.5 foot table -- this will give you double the playing area of your current table.

1. Construct a 4.5*2.75 frame of light wood -- 1 by 2 pine might be OK -- and glue thin plywood on top. This should provide stiffness and light weight. Make two of these. Glue felt or some other padding underneath to give protection to the table top.

2. Put clips or hooks on the sides so you can hook the flats together on top of the table.

3. You'll need to add folding down legs on the corners to give stability. These can be permanently attached with hinges, and hooks to lock them in the down position.

4. Use the magnet method described above to let you put different terrain boards on top, made of foamboard.

Or just use terrain mats.

Lormax wrote:meaning you'll have buildings and other such terrain over a foot in height. If you are having trouble finding the storage place for your table, how do you plan on storing all this terrain?

The Building will be made from Pegasus Gothic buuilding sets. I may well grlue pieces together, but only for each side. Thus a building will flat pack into five walls and a roof. storage for tall buildings is not a problem. Woods pieces are the clumsy bulky items, they will have to go in a box.

Lormax wrote:For the game board itself, since you want to be able to use it in different game settings, don't paint the board at all. Just use large sheets of fabric as the base color...black for space (can add white paint "stars" to it easily), green for rural and grey for urban.

If I go this way I only need one cloth two at most. the board pieces can be alternately grey and black. The cloth is green, or vice versa. green cloth is best then books can be placed under the cloth for instant hills. "Hills" in spacetime being somehat rarer.

Lormax wrote:You may want to give up the idea of basements or other things that are "lower than table level".

Sadly you may be right. A surfaced board with drains and raised pavements would give the board a little something special, but the price might be too high in terms of inconveneince.

However I have my plan.

Lormax wrote: Don't go octagon, just, don't

Why not exactly?

You're much better off with a conventional rectangular table. If you want to stop people hiding in corners, put an obstacle like a lake or a ravine there.

Problem 5: The thickness and design.

My plan is to have a board with a rim poassibly two or three inches high. This rim first helps hang the board on the wall, secondly it is covered with faux suede. This provides the artwork effect, and also protects the dining table from the gameboard.

On the inside of that are the reinforcing batons, likely 1cm section interspaced with 1cm thick foam. This it crafted fior the drains and part cut for swemi recessed basements.

The surface is covered with cheap sandpaper abnd painted as asphalt (idea thanks to a thread here on Dakka) There will be islands of pavement, slightly raised by being mounted on thin foamcard. My buildings are add to these raised areas. Thus the urban surface consstrs of cut out basements and drains, roads pavements and placing points for my gothic buildings. Imperial iconography will be absent so the battlefield could be cities of the 41st millenium, a ruined European old town in the 40's or somewhere in Cygnar.

Now this will not add much height on the interior, and is fairly level. So I cut out a second board out of foamcard paint one side black coat the other side in green cloth and lay it in between. for space or Fantasy/rural games I leavev the board in, otherwise remove. It rests on the non road parts of the surface beneath. It should not weight much. While on the wall it is secured by clips on each side to prevent the inner board from moving about too much.

What do you think?

Kilkrazy wrote:You may be trying to do a bit too much in the space available, by playing Apocalypse games.

I have an itch only titans can scratch. Though I may havev to ration myself to one or two super heavys at a time.

I guess I just don't understand this idea of hanging it on the wall. No matter how you dress it, unless you make one side really "modern artful", it's still a huge piece of wood/board on your wall. I don't see how that can ever be not noticed and not look out of place in an apartment. Anything that big is REALLY going to look out of place...and you had an aversion to storing it behind your door.

Any comments or thoughts from you Orlanth on the idea I illustrated above?

Lormax wrote:I guess I just don't understand this idea of hanging it on the wall. No matter how you dress it, unless you make one side really "modern artful", it's still a huge piece of wood/board on your wall.

Some modern art looks like that.

I have an 8X4 board and a 6X5 board (and this great table cloth that is exactly 4 feet wide, so putting it in the middle of the 6X5 gives me a perfect 6X4).

Neither is big enough for Apoc Games.

The 8X4 is long enough, but not wide enough. Playing short-end to short-end feels like you're playing on a very thin strip of land, and playing long-edge to long-edge just doesn't leave enough in between.

8X6 is what you want for an Apoc board. Or, better yet, an 8X4 and then two separate boards that are 4X2 each that you can tack onto the ends, or use as a separate 4X4 board for much smaller games.

Largest I've played on was 12.5X6. That was too big as it was very difficult to reach into the centre.

BYE

Kilkrazy wrote:

Lormax wrote:I guess I just don't understand this idea of hanging it on the wall. No matter how you dress it, unless you make one side really "modern artful", it's still a huge piece of wood/board on your wall.

Some modern art looks like that.

Very true, I am not particularly houseproud, but large panels covered in suede in a colour that complements the wall works. It would effectively disguise an obscenely large games table in a tiny flat.