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well i want to put 2 power fists on my assault sgt. am i able to do this?
its worded kinda funny in the new space marine book.

Yes, as he may replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword with one of the weapons listed.

ill take your word for it thanks

Why do you need to take my 'word' for it? It's right there in black and white in the codex.

im at work with out my book so thats why.

No need to take his word, its in the codex. Also you may give him a pair of lightning claws and keep your bolt pistol or chain sword.

padixon wrote:No need to take his word, its in the codex. Also you may give him a pair of lightning claws and keep your bolt pistol or chain sword.

Sadly this is true, so it is legal to give a Assault Squad Vet Sgt two sets of Lightning Claws.

padixon wrote:No need to take his word, its in the codex. Also you may give him a pair of lightning claws and keep your bolt pistol or chain sword.

Huh? Unless you are totally Easter Egg hunting, each lightning claw requires a swap with the bolt pistol or chainsword.

Homer

No,

You may replace the CCW and/or Bolt Pistol for....

X points you may get ..... or Pair of Lightning Claws.

I am not stating I would do it, but its legal as per the unit entry.

Ghaz is right. You can replace BOTH it says AND. Each one with a fist. THe new dex even has pics of captains and such with two lightning klaws.

smart_alex wrote:Ghaz is right. You can replace BOTH it says AND. Each one with a fist. THe new dex even has pics of captains and such with two lightning klaws.

Careful guys, this is how you confuse the hell out of non-English speaking gaming groups when you "clarify" stuff like this.

You may replace a weapon and/or the other weapon with just ONE ITEM from each listing. You may not take a duplicate entry unless it is listed twice or "as a pair".

Pick the list item you want, pick the item(s) you want to replace, pay the points, keep going to the next entry.

No, no two fists as there is no entry for "pair of fists", neither is a power fist listed 2 times.

Its not worded funny, its explained quite well how the listings work on page 128.

It does seem like you can take a pair of claws and keep your pistol though, and even upgrade that pistol to a plasma.

PolecatEZ wrote:You may replace a weapon and/or the other weapon with just ONE ITEM from each listing. You may not take a duplicate entry unless it is listed twice or "as a pair".

Pick the list item you want, pick the item(s) you want to replace, pay the points, keep going to the next entry.

No, no two fists as there is no entry for "pair of fists", neither is a power fist listed 2 times.

Its not worded funny, its explained quite well how the listings work on page 128.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Nothing says that you may only take an item from the list once. You may replace either, neither or both weapons with any weapon in the list provided. Therefore two of the same weapon is valid an legal.

Im still going with Ghaz. Why would you replace both with one item. Thats slowed in every sense. If that were the case it would just say or. However it says and/or I am sure it was worded this was specifically to add EXTRA clarity that TWO items may be taken. I do agree with polecatEZ in that sense. It is indeed NOT worded funny at all. It is completely clear that TWO items may be taken.

yes, you can take the same thing more than once, there's no reason you can't I'm not sure why the pair of lightning claws snuck in, in fact I think the english version has them on the assault marine sgt, while the german version misses them here but has them for command squad veterans.

PolecatEZ wrote:

smart_alex wrote:Ghaz is right. You can replace BOTH it says AND. Each one with a fist. THe new dex even has pics of captains and such with two lightning klaws.

Careful guys, this is how you confuse the hell out of non-English speaking gaming groups when you "clarify" stuff like this.

You may replace a weapon and/or the other weapon with just ONE ITEM from each listing. You may not take a duplicate entry unless it is listed twice or "as a pair".

Pick the list item you want, pick the item(s) you want to replace, pay the points, keep going to the next entry.

No, no two fists as there is no entry for "pair of fists", neither is a power fist listed 2 times.

Its not worded funny, its explained quite well how the listings work on page 128.

It does seem like you can take a pair of claws and keep your pistol though, and even upgrade that pistol to a plasma.

Hate to jump on the "you're freakin wrong" bandwagon but... (man, I have spent so long trying to figure out how to use this guy in a forum... this is a good day.) The wargear may only be taken once, but not so with weapons.

But I have a question, If you take say2 bolt pistols, it counts as a TL weapon right?

So if you take 2 powerfists, do you get the +1 attack, AND it counts as being MC?

Mastercrafted? ...

... Twin-Linked?

Pretty sure you can only fire with one weapon, unless rules state otherwise (cyclone missiles, techmarine harness, auxiliary grenade launcher). You can buy two in case one breaks or something. Heh.

Well, new SM don't have an 'option' for two bolt pistols anyway.

Shrike78 wrote:The wargear may only be taken once, but not so with weapons.

Only in codices with an Armoury. The new Codex Space Marines does not have an Armoury, therefore the army list entries will tell you whether or not a model can have duplicate items of wargear.

Shrike78 wrote:But I have a question, If you take say2 bolt pistols, it counts as a TL weapon right?

No, it does not count as twin linked.

Shrike78 wrote:So if you take 2 powerfists, do you get the +1 attack, AND it counts as being MC?

No, they do not count as being master crafted.

ok... (depressed sniff)

Shrike78 wrote:

PolecatEZ wrote:

smart_alex wrote:Ghaz is right. You can replace BOTH it says AND. Each one with a fist. THe new dex even has pics of captains and such with two lightning klaws.

Careful guys, this is how you confuse the hell out of non-English speaking gaming groups when you "clarify" stuff like this.

You may replace a weapon and/or the other weapon with just ONE ITEM from each listing. You may not take a duplicate entry unless it is listed twice or "as a pair".

Pick the list item you want, pick the item(s) you want to replace, pay the points, keep going to the next entry.

No, no two fists as there is no entry for "pair of fists", neither is a power fist listed 2 times.

Its not worded funny, its explained quite well how the listings work on page 128.

It does seem like you can take a pair of claws and keep your pistol though, and even upgrade that pistol to a plasma.

Hate to jump on the "you're freakin wrong" bandwagon but... (man, I have spent so long trying to figure out how to use this guy in a forum... this is a good day.) The wargear may only be taken once, but not so with weapons.

You didn't "figure out how to use him", you just kept asking around until you got an answer you liked, it doesn't necessarily make it right, but as you wish.

However, be warned -

1) The general rule in anything WH40K is that all rules are "exclusionary", meaning if it isn't said "you may do this," then generally you can't. Nowhere does it say "you may take a duplicate entry", nor is there anywhere that gives an example of a model having such a duplicate entry as was stated in the OP.

2) I'll smack the first nitwit that actually tries to pull this cheese in a pick up game with me. I'm sure I'm not alone.

3) I'll laugh my ass off when it gets faq'd and all the "loophole hero constructors" have to start ripping apart their models. Why does it always seem to happen to SM players?

4) If you really want twin power fists, there is a specific NPC model which has them as a very special piece of wargear (p.84).

Yes, they do say that you can take multiples. You can replace both weapons with any of the weapons listed. That permits you to take duplicates of the same item. Now show us where it says you can't take duplicates, because the rules say no such thing. If they didn't want you to take duplicate weapons then they would have specifically said so, like they did in the old codices with wargear.

OK. You may replace your bolt pistol with a power fist. Done? And you may now replace your CCW with a power fist. Done? Grats, you now have an assault sgt who spent more on powerfists than you spent on him to begin with, but he now has two power fists, and no invuln.

How is this not a strained interpretation of the rule? When entries, like the one for Vanguard Veterans, allow multiples of items to be taken as replacements for existing gear it says so in the entry. Vanguard Veterans has a listing for "Pair of Lightning Claws". By the logic of some of the posters in this thread that would mean one model could take 2 pair.

Brice

BBeale wrote:How is this not a strained interpretation of the rule? When entries, like the one for Vanguard Veterans, allow multiples of items to be take as replacements for existing gear it says so in the entry. Vanguard Veterans has a listing for "Pair of Lightning Claws". By the logic of some of the posters in this thread that would mean one model could take 2 pair.

Brice

ummm.... no they dont. vanguard can replace their bolt pistol and/or chainsword with X X and a power weapon or lightning claw
nowhere does it say anything about a pair of claws.

Usernamesareannoying is correct. The options for a Vanguard Veteran Squad does not include a pair of lightning claws, only single lightning claws. Only the Assault Squad sergeant has the option of a pair of lightning claws.

Admittedly, I am going from memory, but I think it's under the Vangaurd Sergeant section of the entry. If not, that's how the Chapter Master and Captain entries are written--with "Pair of Lightning Claws" being a separate entry from the other weapons and the only entry indicating doubles.

Brice

P128 SM codex says "where an option states you may excahnge one weapon and/or another you may replace either, neither or both providing you pay the stated points cost"

To me this says if you want two power fist for 50 points you can have it.

( I agree that the assult spgt's option to take a pair of LCs for 30 points muddies the water a bit, but because p128 states thinks so clearly, I think it's just a redundant entry.)

BBeale wrote:Admittedly, I am going from memory, but I think it's under the Vangaurd Sergeant section of the entry. If not, that's how the Chapter Master and Captain entries are written--with "Pair of Lightning Claws" being a separate entry from the other weapons and the only entry indicating doubles.

Brice

Please don't post if you don't have the codex. None of the above have 'pair of lightning claws' listed as an option.

Ghaz,

Really? You sure about that? Did you read Kapitan Montag's post or the codex entry?

Brice

Unlike you, I actually read the codex entry. And if you had read this thread, you would have known that only the Assault Squad sergeant has the option to take a pair of lightning claws as I've already pointed out.

Ghaz,

Obviously I've been reading the thread and the codex, my first post on the issue of "Pair of Lightning Claws" as a unit entry came before yours. What I take issue with, is even though I was correct about it being a list entry option, you felt it necessary to condescend and take this thread off topic.

Brice