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I ran into this problem the other day when i was playin a game of 40k with someone at my local gaming spot. The guy i was playing is

orks, and he had a nobz squad that in my opinion is borderline on legal. He had a hand full of nobz and each nob had 'evy

armor, cybork body, and a pain boy. Almost all these nobz had different weapons options and was using them for a meat sheild for

his boss. When allocating wounds he was rolling for each individual that had different weapons, so after a round of taking wounds from

my shooting he had a couple of nobz with with wounds and the rest were fine. My problem is that it says under multi wound models

you must remove full models whenever possible. At the same time the regular shooting rules says you must roll for each model that

has something that makes them different (weapon wise). He ended up with wounds spread across this nobz squad and by the

time he reached me with those nobz i had only managed to kill 1 of them from shooting. To him he thought it was all legal. We

discussed it and did a roll off and he won (for now) for useing his version of what he thought was right. I just feel its unfair to spread

out all those wounds to guys in the squad which goes aginst the rules for removing multi wound models. So my question to you fine

gentelmen of Dakka Dakka. Which rules do you use for allocating wounds to a nobz squad or do you use both like the guy i played

the other day?

First of all, why would you expect anyone to respond to your post when it is written in a way that is extremely difficult to read?

Please take the time to make your posts legible if you'd like people to give you the courtesy of a response.


Second, if you read the rules for allocating wounds it is very clear that you only must remove whole models where possible when dealing with groups of models that are identical to each other. Since each model is different from each other he can (and must) allocate wounds separately to each different 'group' (which in this case is a single model).

So yes, he played completely correct by the rules and it is how it works now. It certainly makes these kinds of multi-wound units more durable but to be frank these types of units are very pricey points-wise and are very vulnerable to instant death weapons so it really isn't an issue IMHO.

I think the guy was rather clever. That was good thinking on his behalf. I had not really thought of that before.

Just because you don't think it should work that way, it doesn't mean that it doesn't. Calling someone a cheater because they understand the rules better than you is just sour grapes.

Okay, lets say I have a squad of Nobz.

1 nob has a big choppa.

1 nob has a twin linked shoota. (Haven't looked at ork codex recently. May be right.)

2 nobs have power KLAWZ!

1 Nob is a painboy.

You shoot these guys and get 6 normal wounds. The wounds need to be allocated.

I put 1 on the Choppa, 1 on the shoota and 2 on the power claws and 1 on the pain boy. I have allocated the needed amount to all of them, so I can then allocate the last to whomever I choose. I choose the pk nobs.

I roll the saves. I make the choppa save, the shoota save and the painboy save. However I fail two PK nob saves. Now here is where the "Remove whole model" rule comes in. I could keep both alive if I gave them each onpe wound, but I must instead place both wounds on one of them to remove a whole model.

Also of interest is that instant death wounds having to go on unwounded models only applies to groups of same-models. Which is admittedly counterintuitive.

So example A:
Nob
Nob w/klaw
Nob w/Painboy upgrade

The basic nob is already wounded from previous shooting and a lascannon hits and wounds the unit. The ork player can (and should I guess?) put the lascannon wound on the wounded nob. The ork player is required to remove whole models from instant death, but he is in total control over which group of models receives the wound. Give it to the wounded guy!

Example B:
Nob1
Nob2
Nob w/klaw
Nob w/painboy

Nob1 has a wound from previous bolter fire. This time when the lascannon hits and wounds, if you place it on the basic nobs hoping to only take one wound, you'll have a whole model available in that set that will get pulled instead.

Ok, heres a question for you since on the topic:

What about subsequent rounds of shooting? Does "removing whole models where possable" trump the choice of where to assign wounds?

Since orcses are a pretty powerful build right now and our local group hasn't adjusted to match yet us orcsy players have been taking instant death on unwounded nobs and subsequent shooting on wounded nobs first. This has helped encourage friendly play, but I am curious as how you guys see what should actually happen in this case.

Meph

It's actually worded like this:

If the unit includes different models, first allocate the wounds suffered. Then take saves for identical models at the same time as normal.

There's no restriction on which models get allocated saves to take, so you can put the lascannon hit on the unique (and wounded) Nob.

Once you have determined the number of unsaved wounds suffered by a group of identical multiple wound models, you must remove whole models as casualties where possible. Wounds may not be ‘spread around’ to avoid removing models. Track any excess wounds with a note or a marker as noted above. Multiple-wound models in the unit that are unique are rolled for individually and their unsaved wounds must be recorded separately.

The rule about removing whole models where possible only applies once saves have been failed and within the context of a group of identical models. Likewise the rule about removing unwounded models to Instant Death. So Moz's post above has a great pair of examples showing how to do it.

However within a gaming group if there are people who are not comfortable with wound allocation like this, I would suggest trying a few games each way before deciding on a house rule that keeps everyone happy.

Mephistoles1 wrote:Ok, heres a question for you since on the topic:

What about subsequent rounds of shooting? Does "removing whole models where possable" trump the choice of where to assign wounds?

Since orcses are a pretty powerful build right now and our local group hasn't adjusted to match yet us orcsy players have been taking instant death on unwounded nobs and subsequent shooting on wounded nobs first. This has helped encourage friendly play, but I am curious as how you guys see what should actually happen in this case.

Meph

This is what I wonder, I can't check the wording for removing wounded models first but I wonder if they are worded in such a way that you would also have to attempt to wound them.

e.g. 4 unique nobs (each has different wargear) and only 1 has taken a wound already, you get hit by 3 weapons that all allow a save, does the rule imply you have to allocate atleast 1 wound to the already wounded nob or can you miss him altogether.