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For whtaever reason, thinking about "finishing" my Guard, I've been contemplating adding a unit of Conscripts.

And then, I was thinking about what they might be like if redone in the upcoming IG Codex. I'm thinking that GW should go farther with them, make them more feral (hence keeping WS3) as a better representative for Penal Legions as horde fodder. This helps show how good regular Guardsmen really are.


Conscripts - 4 pts per model
Conscript - WS3 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv-

Squad: The squad consists of 10 to 20 Conscripts

Wargear: Stub Pistol (or Laspistol) & CCW

Options:
- any models may exchange Stub Pistol for Shotgun or Stubber (or Lasgun)
- for every 5 full models, one model may be armed with (demo charge, flamer, grenade launcher, or heavy stubber) for +5 pts each.

- one model may be upgraded to Taskmaster (BS3 I4 Ld7)


Special Rules:
- Explosive Collar - Remove d3+3 models to pass any Leadership test, or remove d3 models to re-roll a Leadership test.

'Cept they're not all Penal Legionnaires nor are they all Feral Worlders.

Sometimes they're just Conscripts.

BYE

I like this concept JohnH. Why shotguns?

I see Conscripts as a support unit, and want to heavily control access to upgrades so that they always slot beneath basic 5-pt Guardsmen.

Weapon-wise, I want Conscripts to only have simple weapons, with an emphasis on assault instead of shooting. This is why they have no "true" Heavy Weapons (I think of Heavy Stubber is more like a Special, and probably won't see much play, given the options available).

I think the all-Lasgun version is far too limiting, especially as it encourages static play. I start with LP&CCW for a cheap fighty option, and then allow Shotguns for further variety. If someone want to use Conscripts as more of a mobile close support unit, they can do it. They can choose to plink with the Pistol and enjoy the extra attack, or they can blast with the Shotguns and mop up in HtH. Or they can split the difference and let the Shotguns take any HtH wounds. You know, Tactics.

Basically, I want something *different* that's *fun* to play, rather than a cut-rate version of the static shooting I already have plenty of.

Cool. As this is a for fun assignment, I'd posit you might give them a firearms option ala LATD complete with the "gets hot" rule, to represent militia levies.

hey!
thats a bloody grots job!
stop stealin orky ideas

on a true note like the idea, and the collars could be amusing

love the collars, sounds very much like something the guard would o. Probably anemd after some damn big ass commissar to boot. He probably sits at the back with the red button in one hand and a drink in the other with a lackie watching the battle through binoculars telling him who's running.

I do believe thats how it worked back in RT.

Kill off 25-40% of an presumably reduced squad of conscripts to pass any morale test?
I'd never take them, when I could get a full squad of REAL guardsmen instead, with a HW and a Special Weapon.

No save? Cool, let me mow them down with my 5 person command squads when they run out in the open to charge me. They'd make Lasguns just about as strong as Bolters are on Guardsmen. One flamer would decimate a squad.

How do you use conscripts on a world that doesn't have any mutations? What if they're just factory workers or paper salesmen?

If you want to use them as human waves, why is the squad size so small? 50 conscripts can't be munched by a SMtacsqd rapidfiring, 20 can.

A 10man Conscript squad, loaded in a Chimera, with two demo charges would probably be too much. In fact, why demo charges at all?

Sounds to me like you're seeing Conscripts as Subhuman Slave Levies or something.

Frazzled wrote:I do believe thats how it worked back in RT.

Exactly right!

Frazzled wrote:Cool. As this is a for fun assignment, I'd posit you might give them a firearms option ala LATD complete with the "gets hot" rule, to represent militia levies.

Personally, I'd rather they die to the Explosive Collars than Gets Hot!

CaptainFass wrote:Kill off 25-40% of an presumably reduced squad of conscripts to pass any morale test?
I'd never take them, when I could get a full squad of REAL guardsmen instead, with a HW and a Special Weapon.

No save? Cool, let me mow them down with my 5 person command squads when they run out in the open to charge me. They'd make Lasguns just about as strong as Bolters are on Guardsmen. One flamer would decimate a squad.

How do you use conscripts on a world that doesn't have any mutations? What if they're just factory workers or paper salesmen?

If you want to use them as human waves, why is the squad size so small? 50 conscripts can't be munched by a SMtacsqd rapidfiring, 20 can.

A 10man Conscript squad, loaded in a Chimera, with two demo charges would probably be too much. In fact, why demo charges at all?

Sounds to me like you're seeing Conscripts as Subhuman Slave Levies or something.

Sounds to me like you just don't understand how this unit works, or how valuable this unit really would be for the Guard. Also, your math-fu is weak.

Auto-passing a Morale test is quite valuable. Currently Conscripts *will* run from HtH, because they're WS2 A1 Ld5 models. They don't fight well enough to bog the enemy down. But blow off a few heads, and they're going to stay in the fight like Insane Bravery. But go ahead and take those regular Guardsmen who *will* run.

As for your 5-man command squads, it is very rare to see Guard vs Guard. And most of the time, Guard don't get much for their Sv5+. So why bother? And that Flamer is just as effective against ordinary Guardsmen, who cost more.

The 40k universe doesn't have "paper salesmen". They do, however have a level of violence such that hab-block warfare is common. That is, the average Joe thinks nothing of trying to kill the guy who lives in the apartment across the street.

And while, no, they're not "human waves", neither are they "too small". 20 guys is as large as an Ork mob gets. And while, theoretically, a squad of 20 conscripts can be rapid-fired to death by a 10-man Tac squad, the odds against that happening are very low. Odds are 3300:1 against making all 20 hits, 3300:1 against making all 20 wounds, for a total of 11 MILLION:1 against! And if those Conscripts are in cover, then the odds of them missing all 20 cover saves is about 1 MILLON to 1. So when you talk about 10 Tactical Marines rapid-firing 20 Conscripts to death (in cover), we're talking astronomical numbers. 11 TRILLION to 1. "Do ya feel lucky, punk, do ya?"

Demo Charges are carried by Human Bombs. You're too wet behind the ears. Read the RT-era Guard stuff, and you'll undestand where I'm coming from.

concripsts might as well be slaves, they've been conscripted.....they didn't volunteer, they were 'forced' in whatever way, be it the first born must go to war, or 'oh heck, there's baddies coming, quick get everyone over the age of 12, give them a laser pointer, tell them they're a soldier and stick them on the front line'. Some may wish to be there, most wont, so slaves. Explosive collars as already said is a great idea for them! And while they're not going to kill lots of enemy, they should hold them off long enough for the rest of the army to get organised. think WW1 how many died while the generals worked out how to move another 6inches forward?

This version of "Conscripts" just doesn't fit with the Guard. It may fit with an aspect of the old, old Guard, but this seems to clunkily put in, that it really shouldn't take the place of the current Conscripts, which are already used quite a bit and are quite likable. Basically, I just don't see how this is an upgrade from what is available currently, and that it isn't giong to fit. This is perhaps an okay idea for something from Chapter Approved (are they still doing that? I haven't seen a new book in a long while....) but hardly seems legit enough for a Codex.

Actually considering the new codex is likely focusing on platoons this is not bad, either in a standalone context, or modified slightly as a platoon construct.

Exactly. If the IG are going to be Platoon-based, then they will need Storms and Conscripts as smaller, different Troops picks.

I like the rules they bring in alot of the classic element and you don't really lose anything from the current incarnation I think it adds to them really. 50 models a squad was kinda silly, and really how often do you use up all your troop slots. People who want to field these will probably generally go light on what's in their basic platoons, have a couple of lightly upgraded platoons and a couple groups of Conscripts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:And while, no, they're not "human waves", neither are they "too small". 20 guys is as large as an Ork mob gets.

30 guys. An Ork mob goes to 30 guys.

Oops. Oh well.

Anyhow, 20 Conscripts would be enough, as that's the size of the current Catachan box.

It's a minor point, but why do you need to give them stub guns? They have exactly the same profile as a lasguns.

i like but i think that heavy weapons/specially should only be every 10 and the rule about removing some to redo tests is too roky for my liking

I like them the way they are, but your ideas should be additional options

lalabox wrote:It's a minor point, but why do you need to give them stub guns? They have exactly the same profile as a lasguns.

There is no reason - it's just labeling, for variety's sake.

Squig_herder wrote:i like but i think that heavy weapons/specially should only be every 10 and the rule about removing some to redo tests is too roky for my liking

Currently, most armies are 2 weapons / 10 guys, so I simplify that to 1 weapon / 5 guys. If you don't like Explosive Collars, don't use it - it's strictly optional, and you aren't ever forced to blow up any heads.

lordofthedead wrote:I like them the way they are, but your ideas should be additional options

And I *dislike* them the way they are, hence my proposed changes.

5 points is too cheap for demo charges, raise it to 10

Demo Charges are deliberately "cheap", because I want to encourage players to field Human Bombs in Penal Legions. Not that 5 extra points would matter much on a unit of this type. Besides, the new Ordnance rules and BS2 are sure to create a number of amusing results on the battlefield.

This would be cool. Currently I don't use conscripts just because they're restricted, which means I feel I could get more out of my doctrine point by taking COD or something.