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The thinking behind this thread comes from my Savage Orc's inaugral game (and win!) over Fitzeh's rotten little Stunties.

The aftermath of the game seemed to suggest that because I had underestimated quite how 'ard Savage Orcs are, that I really don't need to worry too much about a 4th Rank. When you are kicking out 3S4 attacks in the first round from your basic guys, and 3S5 from Big'uns, that additional point of combat resolution, considering how much it costs me, just doesn't seem all that essential. A case in point is where 5 Savage Orcs pulled off a jammy flank charge on a unit of Dwarf Warriors, with BSB Thane and Runesmith, and chased them down in the ensuing rout.

So now I am considering investing in an additional Command box, stripping 5 Boyz off each existing unit (so 10 Boyz and 5 Big'Uns) to create a new unit for me to play with.

And it got me wondering just how much tinkering etc the average undergoes during it's early days. For me, the tinker has to be reversible, as although I am happy to spend a hefty amount on an army, I don't like spending on things I won't use all that often. So although I might end up with a superfluous command, when I expand the force from 2,000 to 3,000 points, it will get used. Granted there are limited things I can do with this force (if it's not frenzied, I'm not interested!) so I take that as a Blessing, but do you guys find that in your first dozen games or so that there is a fair amount of tweaking goes on until you are happy with the force.

For another example, the other option open to me is to use the points shaved off from the Boyz to procure 5 more Boarboy Big'uns, making my unit a lot more survivable (a single round of shooting from Fitzeh's Thunderers kind of peed on their chips). Again, in the expanded army, these Boarboyz will be used regularly, so either way I am safe. All it comes down to at the moment though is trying to get more feet on the field (I have 3 units of Infantry, one of Cavalry and a Wyvern. Your usual Orc horde this is not) hence exploring the additional infantry option first, then the Boarboyz as a second.

And do you tweak your character selections? Unfortunately, I feel quite limited by the lack of Savage Orc Characters. There is basically Wurrzagg and thats it. As I already have this as a Shaman, I don't especially fancy converting it further to get some Big Boss' in there, though I would like to run a Shamanless list, just to see how it does (I reckon the extra hittyness of the Big Boss' will pay dividends, particularly in the Boarboyz, as the two Shamans in that unit did precisely nowt in my game!

So yeah, ramble pretty much over, so now it is your turn to describe your tinkering and bodging process.

Our group is nuts. We don't have a set list and then go and buy models for that list. We just buy everything, and then buy everything again, and then buy everything again.

Using my Guard as an example, there are a few different versions of the Russ the Codex allows:

Hull HB
Hull LC
Hull HB w/HB Sponsons
Hull LC w/HB Sponsons

(Ignore the Heavy Flamer option)

Now a normal person would just have one or two of a couple of them, or a dedicated gamer might go and magnatise a set so they can mix and match.

Not me, I own 3 of each of those configs above except the Hull LC w/Sponson HBs config as I own 6 of that one.

Now you'd think that with three Russ Hulls that just have Hull Lascannons that'd be enough if I wanted to do, say, a Vanquisher. I'd get the Vanquisher turret and just take off the Battlecannon turret and there you go. Swap back and forth when needed. Again, no, I own five additional hulls that just have the Hull LC and no sponsons for my 4 Vanquishers and 1 Annihilator. And the three hulls that have Hull HB w/HB Sponsons? Perfect for a Russ Exterminator right? Sure, but if you're me you also have three more Hull HB w/HB sponson tanks just for your three Exterminator turrets.

Then there's the Demolishers, and I think you can see where this is going.

I don't own any Conquerers, come to think of it... hmm...

Friend of mine has 3 Wave Serpents with EMLs, 3 with Starcannons, 3 with Scatter Lasers and 3 with Bright Lances. Then the same again with Falcons.

And each of us own 4 other armies. Each. That are just like this, with the same amount of redundancy. I have a Space Marine Captain model for about 80% of the various useful configs he can take, and then the same models again with Jump Packs. It's a good thing I don't own any bikes...


So to answer your question - we don't tweak or tinker with anything because we have everything to begin with.


It's nuts.

BYE

I'm currently at the beggining stage of this process due to re-doing my stunties.

1. Write list.
2. Post list on internet, ask friends, discuss list.
3.Tinker and tweak.
4. Repeat stages 2 and 3 until satisfied
5. Buy/paint models
6. Play first game
7. Repeat from stage 2 until settled into a good list
8. Hopefully finish painting the army!

I plan alot. Albeit, i don't game much, so basically I just build stuff. Alot of Stuff.

However. unlike the insane gentleman HBMC, I magnetize. Everything.

I've got two Russ hulls. One for a Demo(that is wide tracked btw) and a normal. They both have magnetic sponsons, so I can change the weapons, or not have them at all. I just redid my Chimera so I can change its weapon load out on the fly.

Hell, even my Crisis suits are magnetized.

Yarr. I tend to skip Interwebs advice. No real reason, I just like a steeper learning curve I guess, and I do try to paint as I build. As it stand now, I have 40 of my 60 Savage Orcs, with 20 half painted, 5 Boarboyz all painted Wyvern converted and painted, and 3 Shamans, the two mounted ones have their boars painted and that about it. I only do this because I know the more I collect, and the less I paint, that that is exactly how the army will stay!

My painting problem comes when its time to paint up squads.

I hate it.

However, I will spend countless hours on one-off characters. But 30 mins of speed painting makes me crazy.

I guess I just don't like repeating myself.

My planning stage tends to occur before I purchase models, then I buy small things to fill in gaps. I just pieced together 2500 points of marine spam, so the next few purchases I will make will likely be the exact opposite (antitank vehicles, heavy weapons squads, big angry characters, etc). My purchase model is based around getting the majority of my force for the smallest expenditure possible than accentuating it with more eccentric additions and after the fact conversions. I tend to waste nothing when building a force (I dont have the cash to support a bits box, all that stuff is getting used.

For Warhammer, i am more abit like our insane gentlemen HBMC, however with 40k i plan the list tweak it buy the models and then continue tweaking adding new stuff/dropping new stuff i know later on when i want to play larger game i will use all the stuff ive dropped like for example the 10 posessed would probably make it into a 3000+ point army just for kicks to see how they do i end up with large collections but it means i can tweak army lists again and again until i find one that i love playing with and then finally stick with it until the rules change or i deem its time for a change

i usually end up with a 4,000 point armies after tweaking 2,500 point lists due to taking out units, adding new ones, then using the old ones again.

I don't waist a lot of money on models I wont use, I normally plan out the new army I want, then write out the list I think will work be the best then use other models I already own as stand ins to represent the new list to play test it a few times to work out the bugs and what not before I go out and buy the stuff I need.

How ever when I am upgrading an army I already have (Like my Necrons from 1,500 to 2,000) I will just buy what looks good and what I want with no testing.

I buy the models I like the look of. If the models are sucky, then I don't buy them - or I'll convert up something that suits my army's look better.
I have several falcons and Fire prisms, but all of my Wave serpents are conversions (I don't like the lionfish look) using gemstones (fake) to represent the forcefield.

I'm making up some sternguard for my SM out of plastic SM. I can make combi-weapons. I have enough arms with bold pistols and arms holding bolters. They will look sufficiently veteran to my other marines. I don't like the metal ones. I want my sternguard to look sufficiently different to EVERYONE else's.

I have been playing eldar for 19 years. In this time, I have assembled a substantial guardian force (100 of them - including 20 storm guardians). If I wanted to use Harlequins in this army, I would either buy the models, or convert the stormies to look more like them.
Unfortunately, I dislike the current line of harlequins (except for the Death Jester - always my favourite mini), and their rules so I am unlikely to ever use them.

(Last time I played Harlequins, the Shadowseer, Death Jester and harlequin troupe WERE three separate units with defined roles. Not one composite unit.

I'll tweak and tinker my armies, but I still only play with the models I personally own.

i usually tend to start out with a plan, and then proceed to completely ignore it.

essentially, i tend to just buy the stuff that i think looks cool. for instance, i have 10 (yeas 10) of the forgeworld death riders. i got them cuz they look bad ass (even though they really arent that great in game). i have a squad of ogryns (even tho they "suck" too) and so forth.

i am also a completest. for example, i am currently working on compiling at least 3 of every imperial vehicle.
i currently have
6 or 7 rhinos
2 exorcists
3 immolators
2 or 3 chimeras
1 hellhammer
1 warhound titan
3 LRBTs
1 Valkary
1 hellhound

i just need to get a whole mess more of vehicles then ill be good and i can work on completing my sisters of battle battle company (same format as a SM battle company, and i only need to get the seraphim and dominions, and a whole mess of special weapon sisters), and my company of Imperial Guardsmen (im about 1/2 way there).

im currently at about 13k of imperial stuff (and still growing). though i have lain down the law and i havent bought anything for about 3 months and dont plan to until i have EVERYTHING that i own painted (so i should be good till about this time next year )

so, i basically dont follow any plans (even if i set one) and try and get many of each option in my codex before moving on (on that note, im still working on the army that i started 7 years ago when i began playing 40k).

thanks for reading my ramble
BLARGAG!!!

For Orks and Orcs&goblins I tend to jsut buy everything. multiple times.

For Lizardmen and Tau though I tend to play test a unti before I buy it. If I like the way it plays, I'll buy it and paint it.

so I have completely painted LM and tau forces (which are fairly small 3K and 2.5 K respectively) while the Orks and O&G's are just a never ending process of buying storage space (though most of it is painted...).