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Orginally I had a good idea about building a space marine chapter centered on jump pack troops. This did not work out so well for me. So this chapter decided to go to Chaos. I came up with a list that I thought would be pretty cool. Tell me what you guys think.

HQ:
Chaos Sorcerer 150
Jump Pack, Mark of Slaanesh, Personal Icon, Lash of Submission

Chaos Sorcerer 145
Jump Pack, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

Troops:
10 Chaos Space Marines 210
2 Melta Guns, Power Fist
Rhino 50
Extra Armour

10 Chaos Space Marines 185
Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Rhino 50
Extra Armour

10 Chaos Space Marines 185
Lascannon, Plasma Gun
Rhino 50
Extra Armour

11 Lesser Daemons 143

10 Lesser Daemons 130

Fast Attack:
10 Chaos Raptors 275
Flamer, Melta Gun, Power Fist, Slaanesh Icon

10 Chaos Raptors 275
Flamer, Melta Gun, Power Fist, Slaanesh Icon

The basic concept with this army is to get close fast. The 2 Shooty Chaos Space Marines squad would hang back. The rest of my army would move forward. I would provide cover to my raptors with the Rhinos. Hence the reason I gave them extra armour. I would lash things too me with my sorcerers. All in all I am field 50 marines and 21 Daemons.

I know that alot of people say that raptors are not as good as the space marines but I ran the numbers and for the stuff they almost come out even. The space marines are a better buy but only by 10pts or so.

So what do you guys think.
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I don't like the Lascannon, Plasma Gun combo on the two CSM squads. They might be better off double melta, while the raptors go double flamer. Bunch for templates with lash and assault in. I'd also say the Raptor champs might do better with lightning claws. But I don't have me codex on me if they can't take that disregard that bit. The CSM squads might also do well with an IoCG.

Ok. I mainly took the plasma, lascannon squad as kind objective holders. The lascannons while not the best a busting tanks will keep some faster MEQ players from out manourvering me too much. Most people will be dealing with my raptors and daemons to really give too much of a thought about the two squads in the back.

I like the lightning claw idea but I like the powerfist because it can kinda deal with everything. However, I do have intiative 5 so I will be striking first. They are both the same points cost so I will have to to see which plays better.

My lash will be really effective in pulling squad forward to get into assault which I think is a very important tactical aspect.

Thanks for the input.

CSM squad need IoCG. Pretty much always unless they are long range fire support. Which they don't do good at so ... my suggetion is listen to typeline.

This kind of army also does better with princes (as pretty much every army in the chaos codex does ...) Two princes jumping forward with 20 raptors makes an opponent sweat .. drive the rhinos forward along with it and they have a problem when you have your whole army in their deployment zone on turn two. I like a lash prince and a tzeentch warptime prince combo myself. Together they tear up everything. (except broodlords. Shoot that bad alien dead!)

Rhinos don't need extra armor. They should only be a one turn ride. Start deployed behind them. On your first turn get in and drive 12" and smoke. 2nd turn deploy, move 6" assault 6". (assuming the opponent was at the front of their deployment zone). Fun!



To make this list really work like that drop the lesser demons for a squad of 8 berzerkers and rhino. Change one of your basic marine squads to zerkers in a rhino as well.

The two normal csm squads should have icon, pfist, and a meltagun (or two if they are 10 strong) and a rhino.

Use them as objective grabbers while the zerkers, princes and raptors swarm everyone, or throw them into the assault with everyone else. They are 10 shots and 30 attacks on the charge.

You can also do lighting claw terms in a raider. They eat MEQ squads at every meal, not just breakfast. Give the champ of a squad like this a chainfist and a combi melta for extra versatility (like dreads that try to counter your claws that can't hurt them.)

Oh and though expensive, putting mark of nurgle on a 20 man raptor squad can be a real tough nut for some armies to crack. T5 on jump troops for only 2.5 pts each is pretty cool! I usually put a pfist on the champ though. LC kill pretty well, but you end up vulnerable to getting stuck in with dreds you can't hurt, wraithlords, etc. Plus sometimes the only thing around to charge is a vehicle. Oh, and two melta guns have never hurt either.

Greater demons also are ok in a list like this. Throwing a third MC on the board gives most people a target they will shoot at just because it looks scary. In reality it doesnt do that much but soak up fire, but that helps your killy units take a few less lascannon and plasma shots. Don't throw one in at the expense of other better things though. Usually it is out of range and left behind by your more mobile army.

Just some of the things that have worked for me, take them or leave them as you will.

Meph

i have to say, if you want an army entirely of jump troops then go with blood angels (or a successor chapter). their jump troops are scoring, cheap and you get death company.

your sorcerers are probably better off as demon princes. you dont save enough points to warrant them not being princes.

lesser demons are bad. replace them with more raptors.

your CSM dont need lascannons if they are in rhinos. they should have 2 special weapons instead. dual meltas may be slightly better than dual plasmas considering you are low on anti-tank. (as always plague marines would be better but its up to you)

your raptors should also have two of the same special weapon. since you are giving them an IoS wouldnt twin lightning claws on the champion be better than a powerfist. less good against MCs and tanks but better against everything else. if you meta-game is MC or tank heavy (which i sincerely hope it is not) i would go for an IoK or an IoN instead.

fast chaos armies are hard to do. raptors are good but have to be taken is big squads to make sure tey dont run away and to spread the cost of that icon around.if you do overboard on raptors then you will have fewer troops, thus less scoring units and that will hurt you in a lot of games.

So I redid the list so what do you think about this.

HQ:
Daemon Prince 155
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

Daemon Prince 155
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

Troops:
10 Chaos Space Marines 210
2 Melta Guns, Power Fist
Rhino 35

10 Chaos Space Marines 210
2 Melta Guns, Power Fist
Rhino 35

9 Khorne Berzerkers 214
Power Fist
Rhino 35

15 Lesser Daemons

Fast Attack:
10 Chaos Raptors 300
2 Flamers, Power Fist, Nurlge Icon

10 Chaos Raptors 300
2 Flamers, Power Fist, Nurlge Icon

So I took some of you guys considerations. I don't know about everything but I do like the T5 for my raptors. Think this is a good idea. I will have to play around with some of the #'s.

I really like the big squad of lesser daemons. 8 is about the smallest useful size, but they really come into their own in large squads. You need to take more icons to give you flexibility in where to summon them though. 25pts for two Icons of Chaos Glory (in the CSMs) and one Personal Icon (in the zerkers) need to be found somewhere. Dropping one raptor (with your leftover 6pts) would do it.

If you collapse the raptors into one enormous 19 model squad, you come in under 1750, which is this year's GT size.

Or at 1850, you could make the mega squad, drop two more Raptors, and afford a) a Vindicator and b) to upgrade the raptors' flamers to Meltaguns.

Just curious, do you stick with Slannash for a reason? Specifically with the Daemon Princes. I like nurgle for extra toughness, but I also prefer Warptime.

CoachNitro wrote:Just curious, do you stick with Slannash for a reason? Specifically with the Daemon Princes. I like nurgle for extra toughness, but I also prefer Warptime.

Lash of Submission can be a huge headache for someone. Objective grabbing is hard if your opponent has the last turn and only has to roll average to pull you more than 3" from the marker.

The thing with Slannash on the DP is the Lash of Submission. While they aren't the toughest that lash can pull troops towards my assault troopers makeing me get turn 2 or even turn 1 assaults if I am lucky. The lash in my opinion is by far the best power out ther for Chaos. I can lash people toward me. I can lash people off objectives. I can lash dev squad to were they don't get any shots.