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So does anyone actually play Daemon hunters because i dont see anyone here that does. My friends say they lose all the time so I'm guessing they arent so popular

Well, I play them and yeah, i kind of loose all the time.

My loosing streak is gonna change now though, since now I bought a truckload of renegade guardsmen from forgeworld which I'm going to use with the daemon Hunter codex (renegade inquisitor and his loyal followers *muhahahha*).

Seriously I think the grey knights are very cool but I also think most will agree with me if I told you to use daemon hunters as allies in a marine/sisters/IG army instead of going for pure daemon hunters.

/Grindah

I love my pure GK force. It's LR heavy with lots of PAGK's and a few GKT's. My record is undefeated in 5th edition but in 4th I did tend to lose about 40% of the time with them. Their a solid army but do take a bit of a learning curve and if you play pure gk you are limiting yourself to just a few builds.

Friend of mine plays nothing but pure GKs. He loves 'em. They're not really any good - nor are any of the Rogue's Gallery of Inquisitorial units - but they're fun.

BYE

Why are they not good? They have BS 5... I don't know much about them though.

Do they have good stats? Yes. They're expensive, though, and get all these
hand to hand buffs when they seem to do better just shooting at things.
However, I have limited experience.

I am starting a DH force, though I am going to use a few inducted guard to round things out. I plan to play with my casual group and think they are fun.
I do notice that they do not field many heavy weapons though. The only options in the codex for lascannons are LR's and Dreds. This, I think is a pretty big limitation. Not having many options for dealing with Armor or heavy units. One thing that was suggested to me (I wanted to play a mostly Inquistion force) was to use Sisters. For one more point they are a vast upgrade over stormtroopers

captain.gordino wrote:Why are they not good? They have BS 5... I don't know much about them though.

Because they're a mono-dimensional army. They do one thing quite well (HTH usually) and everything else really poorly. They have trouble tackling vehicles unless they take inducted Guard (and even now that doesn't work as Lascannons aren't much use in 5th) or Marines (in which case you can't take GKs). The only unit worth more than the sum of its parts is the Inquisitor Support Unit with Mystics.

I play a pure Inquisitorial force w/Inquisitors, Death Cultists, Daemonhosts and legions of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. I don't use GKs and I don't use Sisters either. They're great fun to play, but they're a worthless army.

BYE

I dunno. That seven Land Raider build that Stelek was going on about looked pretty effective to me.

I use them because I like them and they are a fun army to model and play with.
They don't always win, but if I was going to give them up because of a losing streak, I would've given up 40k in 1988 and switched to tiddly-winks.

There is a steep learning curve, and they are pretty one dimensional, but it doesn't stop me. I'll keep struggling with them. A victory that is not hard-fought and won is not a victory worth the name (a walkover is also not a fun game).

Yeah but he wasn't really playing DH's was he? He was playing Land Raiders. Using the DH list was a means to an end.

BYE

Plus Stelek got rolled in the second round of Ard' Boyz with that list

I thought he didn't go the 2nd round?

BYE

I love my Grey Knights! I've been playing them for two and a half months now and I'm 9 and 1. Understand that these are all casual pick-up games down at GW. I'm not convinced that they are a competative army for tournament play (if you're merely interested in winning any tournaments). They are a very tricky army to play effectively. But I disagree that they are one dimensional.

I think they can do alot of different things fairly well, but no one thing amazingly well (except for maybe kill Daemons, but what did you expect). The tactics I use with them will change from game to game depending on my opponent. My armies in the past have been one dimensional (Iron Warriors, Shooty Guard, Stealer Shock Nids, Speed Freak Orks) in the sense that the army list is designed to play a certain way (read: "stay back and shoot" or "rush forward and attack") and I pretty much stick to the plan regardless of who I'm facing.

With my Grey Knights, I have to be more cagey. Against shooty armies I generally rush foward. Against close combat monsters (I'm looking at you Ork horde) I need to stay back and shoot as much as I can and hope I can reduce my enemy enough to win in close combat when they finally reach me.

I think the Daemonhunters have braved the transition from 4th to 5th better than most (ie:they got better with the new rules). I've played many games where I would have got lost handily in 4th edition (because my army got wrecked and all of my units are below 1/2 strength) but I actually won becuase in 5th the objectives (or kill-points) are all important. My army doesn't give away very many kill points. I've won every Capture and Control mission I've played (I hold my objective with some hard units and I contest my opponents with my Land Raiders/Terminators). The only mission type that gives me real problems is Seize Ground with four or five objectives. I find it difficult for my low model count army to cover that much ground.

Anyways, I've enjoyed playing and painting the army immensly. They have a brilliant model range. You can use them as allies in a Guard or Marine army (or vice-versa). They're a blast to play in apocalypse. I'd encourage anyone who has a few armies under their belt to give them a shot.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but he wasn't really playing DH's was he? He was playing Land Raiders. Using the DH list was a means to an end.

BYE

When the Ordo Malleus finally decides to invade the Defiler Kingdoms, you can bet that they'll want an armoured company or two under their command.

I'm trying to remember what the name of that rare Ordo Malleus variant of the Capitol Imperialis was called... (Looks though files.) Ah yes, the Capitol Daemonicus! I guess if the DH can have THAT, they can have a pile of Land Raiders!

H.B.M.C. wrote:I play a pure Inquisitorial force w/Inquisitors, Death Cultists, Daemonhosts and legions of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. I don't use GKs and I don't use Sisters either. They're great fun to play, but they're a worthless army.

Same here, I play a Radical Malleus/Puritan Xenos mix with Imperial Guard. No Sisters, No Marines, no Grey Knights.

If I could trust GW as far as I could throw them I'd play it with Marines instead of Imperial Guard but I don't think 'allies' will make it into the new book.

hehe... I think most people don't realize how to use PAGKs they are a shooting unit that punishes anything that gets to close and can be assaulted. The trick is in the movement phase and being able to see 2 turns ahead and what they will be able to do to maximize their shooting.

It is a hard army to play and takes a lot of skill to win with

Biggest reason why I asked was because I though about getting some of them. I didnt know I could use grey knights and what not in my IG army, thats really new to me but Im still new as it is. They just seemd tough to beat but i guess not. My friend said about 90% of the time you will be outnumbered 3 to 1 and always lose. Granted I don intend on playing tournaments but i would like to win a few here and there.

frgsinwntr wrote:It is a hard army to play and takes a lot of skill to win with

Yep. Sure takes a lotta skill to roll them dice.

PAGK are a shooty unit. I've seen them used that way enough to know. But once you stop fighting GK's on their own terms (ie. letting them shoot you with the benefit of Shrouding), they fold like something that folds easily. Shorts maybe. Or a T-Shirt.

They are neither a good nor competative army. They have too many dificiencies and are too mono-dimensional to be used against any 'top tier' army. The Grey Knight is good - good shooty, good HTH, quite fast depending on the squad - but he's so expensive, and 40K is such a binary game (units do one thing at a time), that making the most of the potential is difficult, especially when other armies can do two tasks with two units for the same cost.

BYE

Silentway wrote:Biggest reason why I asked was because I though about getting some of them. I didnt know I could use grey knights and what not in my IG army, thats really new to me but Im still new as it is. They just seemd tough to beat but i guess not. My friend said about 90% of the time you will be outnumbered 3 to 1 and always lose. Granted I don intend on playing tournaments but i would like to win a few here and there.

1. You can use them with your Guard. I wouldn't - Guard don't need expensive toys, and more men with more guns is always the better alternative - but if you like the unit there's nothing stopping you. You can take one GK HQ, 1 GK Elite, 2 GK Troops and 1 GK Fast Attack in your Guard army.

2. Tough to beat? No. They're Marines with half the model count. Beat them like you'd beat Marines. Marines aren't hard to kill. Fight them with attrition - they can't stand up to that at all. Fight them with things they can't kill (anything AV12 or better really).

3. Outnumbered all the time? Most likely. Always lose? No... not always, but against a competant player with a competant list you've got your work cut out for you.

4. Doesn't have to have anything to do with tournaments - you wanted to know if they're good. They're good, they're just not as good as other units in your army. They are fun though, and in the right circumstances can be extremely good. Of course you have to get into the right circumstance and that usually relies on your opponent letting you do that, or making a mistake. And if your strategy depends on your opponent making a mistake, you need a new strategy. Psycannons are good weapons, but they have weaknesses (vehicles), and GK's just can't fight tanks reliably or without exposing themselves to the enemy (and they're too expensive and fragile to risk that).

Look, at the end of the day, it is your army, so do whatever you will with it. Try out a unit of GK's - sub them with different models first if you don't want to buy any yet - test them out in a few games with a few different builds, see how they work for you. If you end up liking them then cool, go out and get a squad. If not, you haven't bought any yet, so you lose nothing. Hell, even if they don't work all that well but you like them and like the models (the GK models are very nice), get 'em anyway! This game is about having fun the way you want to have fun, so do what you like (within the rules of course! ).

BYE

Well I most likely wont be playing with them. I do like the models so maybe Ill get a GK Terminator squad or something and maybe sub them in with IG but unlikely. Thanks for the feedback

I have a DH Inquisititor who brings his Mystics, Land Raider, and Assassin bodyguard to support my Guard from time to time...

I also have a small Sisters army, along with a bunch of Inquisitorial Stormtroops and Assassins.

But Grey Knights Daemon Hunters? No, thanks. They're just too expensive to field. Plus, they're not well-balanced from a metagame perspective, due to the wierd Daemon-specific rules.

For example, if you look at a Grey Knight Terminator (46 pts base with a 61-pt Captain), they're just way off. A GK Terminator should be 40 pts each (max), with maybe the Captain for 50 pts. And that'd still be high. Compare to a 30-pt Chaos Terminator, and it's even less playable.

Then also remember that John hates GK's being an army and wishes they were a 0-1 Generic Chamber Militant option.

BYE

Pariah Press wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but he wasn't really playing DH's was he? He was playing Land Raiders. Using the DH list was a means to an end.

BYE

When the Ordo Malleus finally decides to invade the Defiler Kingdoms, you can bet that they'll want an armoured company or two under their command.

I'm trying to remember what the name of that rare Ordo Malleus variant of the Capitol Imperialis was called... (Looks though files.) Ah yes, the Capitol Daemonicus! I guess if the DH can have THAT, they can have a pile of Land Raiders!

OK, twice in one day, I know, but...

Where did you hear about (see? please?) the Capitol Daemonicus?

George Spiggott wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I play a pure Inquisitorial force w/Inquisitors, Death Cultists, Daemonhosts and legions of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. I don't use GKs and I don't use Sisters either. They're great fun to play, but they're a worthless army.

Same here, I play a Radical Malleus/Puritan Xenos mix with Imperial Guard. No Sisters, No Marines, no Grey Knights.

If I could trust GW as far as I could throw them I'd play it with Marines instead of Imperial Guard but I don't think 'allies' will make it into the new book.

Same here. Radical Inquisitor with Daemonhosts, Stormtroopers, Retinues. Couple of Chimeras. That's about it. Works fairly well, I'm about 50/50 with it. No Grey Knights, no Marines, no Guard (though I might add some, with a Russ, and sentinels to up the points value of the army).

I like them a lot and hope they hang around in something resembling their current form (lots of fun units, even if they're not always useful, i.e. Daemonhosts against power armor)

Alpharius wrote:OK, twice in one day, I know, but...

Where did you hear about (see? please?) the Capitol Daemonicus?

Hee hee! I found that info on the (now defunct) Specialist Games forums. Someone posted a few paragraphs from the article "Praetorians: Rules for the Capital Imperialis and Hellbore" by Andy Chambers (from WD#130). I haven't authenticated it, but it sure SOUNDED convincing!

You can see a conversion of one made by Centurion over at the NetEpic/Epicomms/TacComs/whatever-it's-called-these-days, uh, web, site.