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I have a problem that hopefully you guys could advise me on:
One of the people I play games with the most has a space marine army
He has dreads and tanks which need taking out quickly before they do any real damage
Alot of people on Dakka just say "put 3 rokkits with every 30 boy group"
But this means that when i do shoot dreads/tanks i will waste a lot of slugga shots and also sacrifice my run
Would it be viable to use a squad (or two) of Tankbustas ,10 or more per squad , all armed with rokits to take these dangerous targets out, or is a waste of points?
Could I use them effectively?
Any comments will be very much appreciated
Thanks

Lootas will kill dreads and ar12 or less, better and faster.

Tankbustas will have a hard time killing ar14. Pretty much your best shot for killing ar14 is pk nobs and warbosses.

3 rokkits in a slugga squad is nigh useless for killing armour 14 tanks. Marginally better then shooting it with grot blastas, but not much.

or a power klaw boss on a bike?

To answer your subject line, the use for tankbustas is to win painting contests. They're fantastic models, with loads of character, and paint up really nicely.

That's about the best thing I can say about the unit. Keep them as far from the game table as possible.

PK boss on bike, small group of nobs on bike, both ( two tanks go down per turn ), 'ard boyz with PK nobs.

Frankly my favorite way to take out tanks is can opener style.

It also seems more versitile than tankbusta's

Another option is twin linked rokkits on a WB which is also another favorite.

WAAAGH!!!

budro wrote:Lootas will kill dreads and ar12 or less, better and faster.

But not everyone like to take the cheese that is lootas. Not all ork armies are sit back and shoot. A KOS style of list can't use lootas as effectively because of all the stuff that gets in the way.

Tankbustas will have a hard time killing ar14. Pretty much your best shot for killing ar14 is pk nobs and warbosses.

Lootas can't kill AV14. At least with enough weapon destroyed/immobilized results rokkits can take down AV14. Still not the best use for them, like you said the PK nob/warboss is by far your best bet.

Tankbustas biggest problem is their glory hogs rule. To get around that you have to field battlewagons. If only to block LOS to unwanted targets and allow your tankbustas to shoot what they need to. I also think that if your going to go tankbustas, you gotta go all out. Take all 15. Get as many hits as possible to maximize their effectiveness and increase their chance of getting their points back. Tankbustas work best in an army that moves and has sufficant vehicles to block LOS. If you run them up a flank, you will practically own that flank. Not too many opponents will want to put their units in the sights of Tankbustas if they can help it.

They're useful for wasting points in an armylist.

Tankbustas can be game winners
i have found that tankbustas can win the battle for you, if played correctly, let me show you how.

i personally play with a mob of 8+ [2 with tank hammers] and 2+ squig bombs,

you may ask, squig bombs? what they are only 18" range, you have rokkits that are 24" range, why risk it? well yes for example i have 6 boyz with rokkits all hitting on 5+ and there have been times when i have missed or hit with all, but the squig bomb hits on 2+ [on a 1 will run at your vehicles, so be warry to keep them 18" away or have a KFF near them] and the squig runs at the closest enemy vehicle, this allows you to shoot at one vehicle and squig bomb another 2 in 1 turn is good and this is do able, done it more than once.

second, your thinking tankhammers, your wasting rokkits. no 6 is more than enough, there are times when you have to face walkers in assault [like when they are sqwishing boyz, like lootas and burna boyz], thats when S10 comes into its own and the other tunkbustas have the tankbusta bombs, but it's nice to know that you have 2 S10's hitting [hopefully].

third, you may ask, what if there are no tanks when i rock up or early in the game, s8 ap3 kills marines real easy.

go tankbustas

Fun to play and paint

Personally, I've had no small amount of luck with Tankbustas.
I like a squad of 7 w/ a PK Nob. I give one Busta a tankhamma, and I buy 3 Bomb Squigs.

Not only have I done well with them against tanks whenever I've used them, I've even cleaned up a SM Vanguard squad of 6 that dropped in and assaulted. That was fun (and, admittedly, lucky).

Eric

Squigherder up above is dead on - they may be one of the best units around for taking down walkers of all types, aren't half-shabby at taking down MCs, and are still able to shoot Marines pretty well.

The Squig Bomb is also fantstic in that it's one of the very few ways to affect two units with only one of your own.

I've had to retire my Tankbustaz since they got badly nerfed in the latest codex. I wish they hadn't taken away their tank hunters special rule.

i think it would be easier if you were less noob.

Throwing suicidal bomb-squigs at that Ironclad over there?

thats the fun, a 5pts "model" which runs at things that move too fast withbombs strappped to it and killing it and earning over 20 times its points is great

Thanks for the help, its good to see both sides the argument, I'm leaning towards using bomb squigs considering how cheap but potentially effective they could be. Darth, you may have beaten me so far, but nothing will stop my (slightly nooby...) Waaaagh!

Darth wrote: i think it would be easier if you were less noob.

You get yourself a 3-digit post-count and we'll talk again

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Darth wrote: i think it would be easier if you were less noob.

You get yourself a 3-digit post-count and we'll talk again

Agreed, if you are under a three digit post count then dont be so aragent

there are 2 big problems with tankbustas:

1) Lack of control. If there is a vehicle nearby, but you really need to shoot and charge something else, you wont be able to. It will lose you games.

2) Use of an Elite slot. There is a lot of competition for ork elite slots. between burnas, lootas and nobs mobs (all of which are better), tank bustas dont really have a place.

orks as an army cant deal well with heavy vehicles at range, its their weakness. the best things you have to deal with light vehicles (like dreads and rhinos) are lootas, that will kill them dead. KoS armies have very fast power klaws (on bike and in trukks) to use. a warboss on a bike scares the bjesus out of most vehicles, and isnt easy to get rid of befroe he tears through them. killa kans are also very useful. even battlewagons with dethrollas (although people will argue with you until they turn blue) are very good at killing vehicles.

you should be taking rokkits in your mobs anyway because they kill MCs and MEQs better than your shootas. its ok to waste some shoota shots on a tank if you really need to kill it. rokkits provide too much flexibility to leave at home.

Squig_herder wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Darth wrote: i think it would be easier if you were less noob.

You get yourself a 3-digit post-count and we'll talk again

Agreed, if you are under a three digit post count then dont be so aragent

Your post count isn't important. It's all about the quality of your posts.

Squig herder dw, i know darth in real life , he is a mate I game with

Fetterkey wrote:

Squig_herder wrote:

Darth wrote: i think it would be easier if you were less noob.

You get yourself a 3-digit post-count and we'll talk again

Agreed, if you are under a three digit post count then dont be so aragent

I think I would gladly keep my post count a low as possible after reading that...

Hey, speaking of Tankbustas, you know what else they're good for?

Killing Plague Marines and Obliterators. Against Plague Marines they cause Instant Death and have AP3, and the volume of Instant Death causing fire will ensure that the few saves Obliterators fail will have dire consequences.

How do get those single-minded gits to pay attention to such targets? Bring batteries of Big Gunz like Zzap guns to deal with vehicles at long range, use Trukks and Battlewagons to control their lines of sight, or simply spam them (three units!) so that enemy armour gets removed quickly and they can get on with smashing enemy heavy infantry.

With Grotz to screen them, you can invest in a Weirdboy instead of a Mekboy, and wait for that 'Ere We Go result that will let you transport 10-15 Rokkits somewhere on the board and shoot after landing!

Tankbustas are terrible at killing Obliterators.

A full sized squad (at a min of 225 points), doesn't even give you an expected result of a single unsaved wound (which would amount to 2 wounds) on an oblit.

I wouldn't really suggest using them for this.

I like rokkits, but I prefer to keep them in my regular boyz squads. This way I can choose what they shoot at, and every wound lost in the squad isn't a 15 point model. They're useful for taking out plague marines, and similar units (death company), and they stop vindicators and other tanks from firing at me while my boyz advance up the field (if there aren't any infantry targets for my shootas to take care of).

I don't see how taking the rokkits as an elite choice is giving you any advantage. You lose ablative wounds, better leadership, and the ability to always choose your target.

Are there any actual benefits to using an elite slot for them?

However Traskel, orks are ballistic skill 2, which means that only one rokkit in three will hit, so you are not garenteed to even wound the target, whether it be obliterators or tanks. so would it not be better to simply have large amounts of rokits in one squad, if you max out to 15, then when you fire at a target you will get 5 hits instead of one. I also think that if there are heavily armoured vehicals near your orks, wouldn't you want to shoot them anyway, regardless of choice?
Nurglitch, your idea sounds pretty good, I may try it out at some point

Jayden63 wrote:

budro wrote:Lootas will kill dreads and ar12 or less, better and faster.

But not everyone like to take the cheese that is lootas. Not all ork armies are sit back and shoot. A KOS style of list can't use lootas as effectively because of all the stuff that gets in the way.

One squad of lootas is hardly cheese. I didn't tell him to use 45 of of them.

Tankbustas will have a hard time killing ar14. Pretty much your best shot for killing ar14 is pk nobs and warbosses.

Lootas can't kill AV14. At least with enough weapon destroyed/immobilized results rokkits can take down AV14. Still not the best use for them, like you said the PK nob/warboss is by far your best bet.

Squig101 wrote:However Traskel, orks are ballistic skill 2, which means that only one rokkit in three will hit, so you are not garenteed to even wound the target, whether it be obliterators or tanks. so would it not be better to simply have large amounts of rokits in one squad, if you max out to 15, then when you fire at a target you will get 5 hits instead of one.

Yes but you also have 26 shootas hitting plague marines or oblits, at the same cost of the tankbustaz squad. That's not even the main point though. Shooting 15 rokkits at obliterators is always going to be a losing battle. You should be assaulting them with a klaw - it's the most effective way to deal with them in the ork list.

Squig101 wrote:I also think that if there are heavily armoured vehicals near your orks, wouldn't you want to shoot them anyway, regardless of choice?

Any competent mech opponent can force you to direct fire at less valuable vehicles. Anyone with a drop pod can position the pod in between your tankbustaz and the squad that comes down, guaranteeing that /some/ firepower is going into the drop pod instead of a target that actually matters. The same thing can be applied to rhinos or similar vehicles in more traditional mech list. Would you rather shoot at a fortuned falcon with a 4+ cover save, or an unfortuned wave serpent sitting right behind it with nasty assault troops/dire avengers sitting inside.

Playing tankbustaz is always going to give you a tactical disadvantage in dealing with mechanized lists.

Traskel:

Rokkits are assault weapons. Why not shoot and then charge?

Also, knowing that your opponent is competent and that they will endeavor to disadvantage your Tankbustas, doesn't that give you the advantage of being able to sucker-punch them with other units?

That's why I suggested pairing massed Tankbustas with other anti-tank units, such as Big Gunz, so that you can not only manipulate your opponent's "competent" reactions to units of Tankbustaz, but also give them an anvil to smash them against.

Uh huh. Toughness 2, leadership 5 armour 10 artilery is an anvil now.

5 S8 hits per 15 tankbustas just doesn't seem scary to me at all, even as a plague marine player.

Zzap Gunz are an anvil, especially now that they have 36" range and they automatically shake vehicles that they glance or penetrate. They don't auto-hit, but they can have ammo-runts, they're cheap, they can have extra krew, and a 4+ cover save always helps.

Maybe you're mistaking the term "anvil" to refer to a tarpitting unit? Maybe the terms "Scylla and Charybdis" would make it clearer. The idea is that if you try to pull something fancy with your vehicles, the Zzap guns clear the screening vehicle for your Tankbustas to hit the good stuff. Heck, you don't need Zzap Gunz for this, a Battlewagon or a Loota Wagon'll be able to do it.

With regard to 5/15 hits from Tankbustas, remember that's just on average, and your Plague Marines will receive anything from 0 to 15 Rokkit hits, and they'll have to depend on a cover save.

Well, anvil is commonly used to refer to a resilient unit that holds up the enemy. I don't see big guns as that, at all. They are easily driven off by heavy bolter fire, and that is abundant in many armies. Sure they can hold up the enemy, one function of an anvil, but they are gone as soon as they are sneezed at by the enemy.
Looted Wagons aren't much good at clearing enemy vehicles , nor battlewagons. Neither get twin linked rokkits.
I'd suggest deffkoptas or warbuggies in that role instead.
I'm aware that 5 is the average, but the average is how it will play out most of the time over a lot of games. Relying on outliers is silly when we're talking theory. I can just as easily say (in fact, it's more likely than the alternative) that my plague marines could pass all of their cover saves.
15 orks in 6+ armour that have to get that close to do damage are a risky proposition. If I were to use them I'd put them in a battlewagon with a boarding plank, and they would rarely get out unless I had moved over 12 and they were sure to be out of range of most of my opponents anti troop weaponry.
I think mobile powerklaws are a more reliable way of dealing with most things tankbustas are designed to deal with.
But I wouldn't tell someone not to use them, because the models and concept are cool. I'm just not sold on them being a great choice.