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i truly think that all SM are racist! to the extreme! alien scumm this, xenos filth that. IMO eldar are to arrogant to care, tau want oneness... orks hate EVERYTHING just the same, chaos are to self involved...... but SM OTOH should be called the KKK or something similar lmao. what does everyone think on this?

and ye si play SM lol

Well those aliens arnt a different race, there a different species, thus impossible to be raciest.

Ps this will probibly get closed so fast...

Well it depends on how you see race. But if you look at it that way than yes, not just the Space Marines the Imperium itself could be considered racist, the Ordo Xenos/Deathwatch in particular.

But yes, the Imperium are definetly predjuticed against aliens.

The Imperium doesn't care how dark your skin is, as long as it falls on the black-brown-beige-white scale.

Purple, green or blue, they might take exception to that.

The Imperium of man and the Space Marines are both xenophobic, with the Imperial of man being uber xenophobic more so than Space Marines. If your not superhuman or human then your a xeno to be destroyed in their eyes.

Only on a few occasions are certain xeno's tolerated by Marines or Imperial of man. For example there are stories of Space Marines and also Imperial Guard fighting alongside Eldar to complete a common Goal, but after the battle is won, the Marines/Imperial always turn on the Xeno.

In the new Marine Codex page 48 second paragraph it describes Magnus as having a grudging respect for the Tau having fought alongside them against the Tyranids. But he still turned on them to prevent their expansion into Imperial Space. This appears to be more out of protection of the Imperial planets than out of malice.

So from what I've seen, they are xenophobic but not racist (or speciesist?)
"only when it suits them"

yea i had a hard time using the word "racist" i was trying to word specieist or somthing along them lines and it just wasnt working out right lol. some day we will have equal rights among the stars.......... yea right then 40k would be fall asleep boring im all about the eradication of an entire species

Xenophobia IS NOT the same as racism.

The most commonly accepted definitions of xenophibia are :

1: An exaggerated or abnormal fear of strangers or foreigners.

2: A strong antipathy or aversion to strangers or foreigners.

Similar to, for example, an Englishman (stereotypically white) with an irrational hatred of the French ( also stereotypically white) simply for not being English. Race has nothing to do with it.

In a 40K context, this translates as " I'm Imperial, you're not, so COME GET SOME "

I wonder why the mods havent closed this "Sm should be called KKK" bs thread.

But then if I said something like Salamanders should be called green clad N words id be banned to the moon and back.

Mod please close this failed thread.

Agreed Reaper6, Xenophobia is different to Racism, I was trying to make that point in my post.

Lock the thread? Can't see why, thread is still on topic, no one is ranting and threatening. Just a group of dakkaties talking about the ideals and predjudies of the Space Marines

KKK is a touchy topic at any time, but its part of history and when used in that context and not to insult, then there is no harm IMHO. If it was that much of a problem ... why do they still teach it at school in History Class? (or at least it was when I was at school)

No offence meant, hellsguardian316, merely adding definition to my agreement with your post, for those "hard of thinking" readers who think xenophobia is just part of the fluff.

no problems, didn't see it as offensive, just thought that you had picked up on it as I hadn't made it clear in my own post. Damn my blunt typing

Also, just to add to the OP, after looking at it again, I can see the view that it is a little Over the top to mention KKK in that context. However I have no doubts it was not written to appear in that manner and wasn't meant to get this kind of reaction from people who do find it offesive.

jp400 wrote:I wonder why the mods havent closed this "Sm should be called KKK" bs thread.

But then if I said something like Salamanders should be called green clad N words id be banned to the moon and back.

Mod please close this failed thread.

Mod in:

The reasons why a moderator hasn't closed this thread are:

1. No-one has complained. There is a button to alert moderators to a bad thread. Mods do not have time to read every single thread.
2. If a moderator like me reads this thread, there doesn't seem to have been a break of the Dakka posting rules. IMO.

The no.1 rule is about politeness to other members. While rudeness about companies and organisations is not encouraged, the KKK certainly are racist and the SMs are a fictional group who cannot be offended by being compared to the KKK. No generally inflammatory language, such as the N word or the G word, has been used.

If you are in any doubts, please PM one of the other moderators and give them your opinion. If necessary they will overrule me. None of us are perfect.

Mod out.

The Imperium is a fascist regime and each part of it is a mini fascist regime whether that be the munitorium or an IG regiment. Outside of a few feral or otherwise under-developed worlds the entire Imperium is like that.

Remember that fellow humans who do not wish to follow the light of the Emperor are regarded as traitorous scum who must either comply or die. The Tau have a similar policy except they give anyone the opportunity to live their way whereas the Imperium only lets humans take part in their facism. If real world examples were used the Imperium would be the nazis and the Tau would be the commies.

The Thousandth Son wrote:Well it depends on how you see race.

A race is an established population with obvious physical similarities (that are able to be passed on to the next generation) that fall within a range for that group and can be compared to other populations of the same species. Race is a term used in biology to describe plant groups that have developed local variations (also called eco-types), it's obviously widely used to describe human groups with certain common features that distinguish them from their neighbours, it is cognate with the word 'breed' used to describe pedigreed animals and also the term 'sub-species'.
A race is something that a species is divided into. There is no such thing for instance as the 'human race', the term that has led the races of the 40K universe to be called such. If you only have one race then that race is the species and so that species has no races, there being only one form.

Technically sex between a human and an elf/eldar would be considered beastiality and that includes Arwen and Aragorn from LOTR.

while obviously some people were for some reason offended by my comparison of the SM to the KKK. I wont apologize for what i said. It was merely a joke. I figured most people got it. I play SM, they were my first army and I have a sentimental holding with them. This thread is supposed to be a funny one about the imperium hating anything they dont own.

cadbren wrote:Technically sex between a human and an elf/eldar would be considered beastiality

Buts lots of fun!
I'm pretty sure that there might be the odd Marine looking upon the Eldar Farseer and thinking "damn, what a fine ass, I just gotta hit on that" lmao

KingCracker wrote: This thread is supposed to be a funny one about the imperium hating anything they dont own.

Right cause the KKK is fething so damn funny to joke about.

well if you can't laugh about them what can you do?

The imperium hate anything deviant, they hate 'abhorent mutation', they hate any non-humans. its state fact and if you look at the galaxy can you really blame then?

cadbren wrote:The Imperium is a fascist regime and each part of it is a mini fascist regime whether that be the munitorium or an IG regiment. Outside of a few feral or otherwise under-developed worlds the entire Imperium is like that.

Remember that fellow humans who do not wish to follow the light of the Emperor are regarded as traitorous scum who must either comply or die. The Tau have a similar policy except they give anyone the opportunity to live their way whereas the Imperium only lets humans take part in their facism. If real world examples were used the Imperium would be the nazis and the Tau would be the commies.

I think you're going way too far with this. Fascism entails absolute power of the state, structured social classes, control of the media, nationalist propaganda, among many other things. The Imperium requires only a few things of planets under its control:
1: The pay taxes (either in money or in troops/weapons/etc.)
2: They worship the Emperor. There aren't even any major regulations to this as we have seen in the fluff the methods of worship vary from planet to planet.
3: They turn any psykers over to the Black Ships.

They don't really have much control over their populace, they don't seem to care about what level of development and social organization your planet maintains, they don't attempt to control the media....all of these decisions are left up to the Planetary Governors. They can go millennia without ever hearing from the Imperium. The best comparison I can come up with is the Holy Roman Empire. Its a collection of "states" that barely answer to a thin list of behaviors and are really only allied because the other "states" around them are notoriously hostile. Fascism is an incredibly erroneous term to apply.

From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

Fas·cism
Pronunciation:
\ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date:
1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>


I would say there is much in the Imperium that reminds me of fascism.

Political philosophy -- Yes
Exalts nation/race over individual -- Yes
Centralised autocratic government -- Yes
Severe economic and social regimentation -- Yes
Forcible suppression of opposition -- Yes

Basically an individual planet is to the Imperium what a village was to Fascist Germany. As long as the required amount of taxes, workers, soldiers and materials is supplied each year, they can do what they like because they are too small to be worth bothering with. Any major outbreak of opposition however, is put down with severity.

I'll just bet SM and the Imperium hate broccoli, too!

nice info, thanks
Shame this won't come up in the pub quiz darn!

@Relapse. Guess you never read about the great Cabbage Crusade back in M32
"sighs" so much leafshed, those poor cabbages never stood a chance

Kilkrazy wrote:
Political philosophy -- Yes
Exalts nation/race over individual -- Yes
Centralised autocratic government -- Yes
Severe economic and social regimentation -- Yes
Forcible suppression of opposition -- Yes

Centralised government? How is this possible when its impossible for the Imperium to actually govern the whole of its region? Rule of the planets is left up to the people. How can it be autocratic? An autocracy is rule be a single person. The Imperium is ruled by the Senate of the High Lords, i.e. 12 blokes i.e. oligarchy is probably the best term. Political philosophy? Not really. Again, this is left up to the individual governments. Economic and social regimentaiton? Again - left up to local governments. Exalts nation/race over individual? Yes but that's a topic that will quickly lead us out into utilitarianism. However trying to come up with a descriptor for what type of government the Imperium is seems silly since no civilization in our human history has ever achieved something on such a scale. To think that any of our ideas can apply to something of such a massive scale is probably best described as foolish.

Rule of the planets is left up to the people as long as it does not interfere with the core Imperial agenda.

Mussolini didn't tell Italians how to cook their pasta, because it didn't matter. He had the important stuff tied well down though.

If it isn't an autocracy, why does the council rule in the name of the Emperor? Try turning off the Golden Throne and see how long the Imperium will last.

jp400 Im not seeing where your getting your lines crossed. Im not saying the KKK is a hilarious group that deserves a carton and a line of childrens clothing made after them. I was compairing the fact that the Imperium hates everything other then themselves, like the kkk are known to do. you need to un tighten yourself and just enjoy in the humor that the great and glorious empire is flawed at the very fundamental level.

They are racist (or spiecist, really) because they believe that they are inherently superior to all aliens. They're xenophobic, but they are most certainly racist.

But then again so are all the races in 40K - Orks think they're the best, Tau treat non-Tau subjects as 2nd class citizens, Eldar think they're above everyone else, Chaos think they're better than everyone.

Actually... the only side in 40K that isn't racist, xenophobic or even evil are the Tyranids. They're just hungry.

BYE

Kilkrazy wrote:Rule of the planets is left up to the people as long as it does not interfere with the core Imperial agenda.

I don't know what else to say - you can find it in the fluff: The Imperium does not require planetary governors to do anything other than pay taxes, worship the Emperor, and turn in psykers. Logistically they cannot monitor and control the entire populace. Its beyond them. Control has to be delegated to the local governors or the bureaucracy would be exponentially worse.

i think what alot of people miss, at least, the ones who don't delve too deeply into the fluff, is that each of the 'races' (by races here i mean, the orks, or humans, or eldar, blame my rts xp) is an inherent reflection of some aspect of humanity, whether it be the tribal and xenophobic mentality of the imperium, or the holier than thou attitude of the eldar and so forth...all of these 'racial' personalities can be linked with some behavior or action in modern society, the xenophobia of the imperium is so like a large portion of western culture towards the 'upstart' nations, like china and the rest of asia (and thus the tau and their distinctly communist ideal of the 'greater good'). In all, the fluff of 40k, and i dare say fantasy (though im not a fantasy buff) are all centered around what humanity in general is doing to itself, both the good and the bad, so if you find a similarity between a part of 40k and real life, the likelihood is that the the most holy of mods, Jervis himself, has based some aspect of it from the reality, and subsequently expanded on it.

=][= A Reminder =][=

Yes, the Imperium of Man is an interlocking series of dictatorships.

No, those dictators don't like the Xeno.

=][= A Reminder =][=