Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well... I tucked my crons away for months now since 5th edition as the Mathhammer did not work for them at all, in any way... NOT AT ALL. So I pulled them out, dusted them off with one goal:

KILL GHAZKULL (he has been causing havok among the local gamers) with the Deciever or the Lord with Warscythe... you got a 2+inv huh??? TOO BAD. You are dead! I played the guy, killed ghazkull and somehow won the Anihillation game. I would also like to add...

I NEARLY PHASED OUT 4 TIMES!!!!!!!! It was terrible. I was several leadership tests from just phasing out.. loss... done. OVER. I won because I was SUPER LUCKY.

Seriously... Necrons really got the shaft with CC being so decisive. In no way are crons a viable list for a real "competitive" game.

"turn one on a 4+ I phase out, Turn 2 its a 3+... and on Turn 3 a 2+... on turn 4 its an auto win."...

"as long as thats clear... lets play".

ARGH.


/rant off

/box up crons

Yep, you played one game with them in 5th, and won, so they must REALLY suck. No point in trying to test out new options or try new things. In fact, you should have NOTHING further to do with them. You'd best just mail them to me and I'll dispose of them properly for you.

It's always best to count one's chickens prior to their hatching...

theblklotus wrote:I AM HORRIBLE

theblklotus wrote:...the Mathhammer did not work for me at all, in any way... NOT AT ALL.

theblklotus wrote:My Necrons really got the shaft with CC being so decisive. In no way are my crons a viable list for a real "competitive" game.

theblklotus wrote:I NEARLY PHASED OUT 4 TIMES!!!!!!!! I was terrible. I was several leadership tests from just phasing out.. loss... done. OVER.

Fix'd


Dude, the only thing Necrons really got kinda hosed on is anti-vehicle. The Auto-Glance gauss rule is damned near useless now. Hand to hand is not much different than it has ever been for them. Warriors are still low-initiative Marines, so they are harder to wound than most troops choices for most armies and have a better save than most non-Marine troops choices.

I think your problem is that you need to get the sand out of your vagina and re-evaluate your codex and your army. If you are worried about vehicles, take Heavy Destroyers. Mobile lascannons that glance on a 6. FAR better than most heavy weapon options for most armies. I have a buddy that was one game away from Baltimore in the 'Ard Boys tourney. Granted, it was 2000 points, but so was every other army and he DOMINATED every opponent except a hard-fought loss to a mobile Eldar list. Phase out is an issue for you? Try bringing less Pariahs/Monolith/Nightbringer and bring more Warriors and Immortals. That will also up your firepower to deal with those pesky hand to hand units.

theblklotus wrote:"turn one on a 4+ I phase out, Turn 2 its a 3+... and on Turn 3 a 2+... on turn 4 its an auto win."

I don't understand this at all. How do you phase out like this? A 4+ on turn one? How is this possible? Are you stating this for missions in which the majority of your army starts off-board?



Ghidorah

open spaz function {

um, Monoliths... x2 in 1750 (with 49 warriors) = re-dun-culous
added bonus: Monoliths don't deep-strike fail on troops, they just move the troops out of the way
oh and 14 AV
oh and port crons
oh and block all LOS to the objective they're in front of
oh and pie plate
oh and ignore special armor penetration rules
oh and are only 235 points
oh, did I mention they're AV14 360 degrees, 375 (376 on a leap) days a year, 24/7
and with a res orb, necrons... don't... die....
I <HEART> them.
ignore the tanks, destroy the troops... tarpit tarpit tarpit

} close spaz function

Ghidorah wrote:
Dude, the only thing Necrons really got kinda hosed on is anti-vehicle...Hand to hand is not much different than it has ever been for them. Warriors are still low-initiative Marines, so they are harder to wound than most troops choices for most armies and have a better save than most non-Marine troops choices.

Dude, I think you need to seriously re-evaluate the differences in melee rules between 4th and 5th edition. In 4th, if a Necron squad gets charged, it loses some models, takes a leadership test is has a good chance of passing, then gets teleported out on the next turn. In 5th, Necrons lose a few models, take a leadership test with a significant negative modifier that they'll probably fail and then get wiped out.

There are ways to mitigate this, of course...monoliths being a good example...but it doesn't change the fact that it's still a significant problem a necron army is going to have to address that wasn't as serious an issue in the previous edition.

I do agree that the new glancing rules are a bigger issue for Necrons, though.

Phase out is THE issue.

My list
2 monoliths
Deciever
Lord w/destoryer body/warscyth/orb/phelactry

X10 crons
X10 crons
X10 crons

X5 Destroyers
X10 scarabs
X10 scarabs

Phase out was 9

I said nothing about vehicles and problems... the monoliths take care of them NP. As does a Ctan. Light armour goes down just fine to the destroyers.

5th Edition Sweeping advance takes care of necrons with very little effort after putting in the modifiers. Ld 10 is more like Ld 6 when the smoke clears.

Yes, I won my game. I also stated that rolling ld checks one after another, turn after turn saved me from total wipe. I cannot see how one would avoid this as getting charged is gonna happen. Warriors either rapid fire then stand there.. or charge.

NOTE: Ardboyz was 2500pts.

I agree with blklotus here. Necrons are fighting for last place with the new marine codex.

30 warriors is kinda light for a game of that point level.
If you drop the scarabs, a destroyer and the Phylactery you can have 16 more warriors
for something similar to this:
the Mover
  Deceiver
Troops
  Warriors (12)
  Warriors (12)
  Warriors (11)
  Warriors (11)
Wing
  Lord: Destroyer Body, Scythe, Orb
  Destroyers (4)
Deth-Condos
  Monolith (1)
  Monolith (1)

Points: 1993
Phase Out: 13 necrons

I have yet to phase out in anything more that 1000 point game.
(but I normally walk a lord with an Orb in with 30 warriors if I use a C'tan)

Ghidorah wrote:I think your problem is that you need to get the sand out of your vagina and re-evaluate your codex and your army.

Wow, nice shot - I'll bet nobody saw *that* coming!

theblklotus wrote:Phase out is THE issue.

My list
2 monoliths
Deciever
Lord w/destoryer body/warscyth/orb/phelactry

X10 crons
X10 crons
X10 crons

X5 Destroyers
X10 scarabs
X10 scarabs

Nah dude. Phase out is NOT the issue. Your non-grasp of your army is. Look, I'm not trying to be an asspickle here, but your army just sucks. You have 2000pts on the table and you have 5 long range weapons + 2 templates. Wonder why hand to hand units get all up on you before you can deal with them? Not to mention that you have 21 stands equalling 540pts in non-Necron models. And you complain about Phase Out? Also, putting a Warscythe on a Lord is just a waste. You lose 3 S5, assault3, ap3 shots. Iif you can't do well in CC with a str5 power weapon, you need to stay outta CC...

Got one word for you:
YOU NEED IMMORTALS.

Seriously... I would love to field a Necron Army against yours. I would blast your Destroyers off the table first, then you wouldn't be able to shoot me for basically the rest of the game and I would whittle your Warriors down from beyond your 24".

Grimaldi wrote:In 5th, Necrons lose a few models, take a leadership test with a significant negative modifier that they'll probably fail and then get wiped out.

Fair enough. Let's re-evaluate the above quote. You are not citing an example of NECRONS becoming garbage or uncompetitive in 5th ed. per the OP. The example you have given holds true for any army, any composition slot, and any troop-type or race. With the even playing field you have described above, I would still take a squad of 10 Necron Warriors in melee over a squad of 10 Guardians. Or 10 Guardsman. Or 10 Fire Warriors.

theblklotus wrote:NOTE: Ardboyz was 2500pts.

Typo. Sue me.



Ghidorah

as long as you keep passive cc wise and you don't forget your trusty resurrection orbs handy they'll keep getting back up. its a good idea to tak lots of warriors. that way it takes a lot longer to force the phasing upon the metal overlords.

and don't forget your nightbringer, he scares peoples pants off!

most of crons units are very exspenive like flayed ones and wraiths.

Your list is terrible.

And you still won with it.

If you're playing an army terribly, and it still wins, that says more about the strength of the list than its weaknesses.

The whole concept of Necrons is horrible!

The ultimate power behind the throne of everything concept, the boring model selection, the lack of variety...

Why anyone at all plays Necrons is...

...oh, wait...

Sorry!

You won?

It was a close game?

Sounds like it was fun?

And you're complaining?

Huh?

With greatest respect to people posting negative remarks to the topic starter...do chill out a bit. Honestly theres no need to get so heated just because somebody has a problem with an army. If you disagree with him do either 1 of 2 things

1. Reply with something constructive to say, for example telling someone to remove sand from a body part is not CONSTRUCTIVE....but rather INSULTING.

or

2. Leave it alone and continue on your merry way

Now on the subject of Necrons in 5th, I'll be honest and say that they are in my opinion difficult to construct a tournament ready list with. Bearing in mind that by tournament I mean UK GT standard 1500pts or my local Irish GT standard 1700pts

My reasoning is

1. There are plenty of armies that won't have huge trouble taking out the much vaunted monoliths...Tau in particular make a mockery of them as do Monstrous creature hordes and the like....Also....certain builds just plain outshoot them, and that seems to be as bad for necrons as anything else, for example in 1700pt games what does a Necron tournament army do against a Double Lash Prince pie plate list
2. There are numerous armies that have the ability to get very close to the Necrons very quickly....either through the use of transport vehicles (Eldar/Orks), bikes (Orks/Marines/Eldar) or multi deep striking units (Daemons/Marines).....This ruins a necrons day no end.

Honestly...I'm sure people have had some success with their necron armies so far, to be honest I'd like to learn how this is so....because I'll honestly say I haven't seen it, for example....the fact that not one Necron player made it in to the top 50 at UK GT heat 2 speaks volumes to me

http://warhammerworld.typepad.com/warhammer_world_news/files/40k_tsgt_ht_2_karen6.pdf

Yea... the list was not that great... Remember what the point of the list was... one goal and all... I ACCIDENTALLY WON>... remember that?

The difference between losing necrons and guardians... if you lose 10 guardians its only 80 points and they do not cause eldrad to explode.

How does the orb help exactly from Sweeping Advance?... that is the issue.

Say 5 chaos marines charge into the necrons, 12 regular attacks, 4 powerfist attacks... That is 3 regular wounds and say 2 fist wounds...

So 3 dead crons... vs maybe one or 2 dead CSM... TEST! That is Vs only 5 CSM. Any real HtH beast is gonna lay them down flat.

I really gotta say, this "all you have to do... +you are dumb because... " commentary is really pointless. This is just a "discussion" area... no rules debates... no list review... just talking hombres... good lord.

a.) Chaos Marines would only get three powerfist attacks, not four.

b.) Even in your example the Necrons are only testing on a leadership eight or nine, which is not exactly autofail you know.

Next turn ~two Warriors get back up, the Marines lose their charge attacks, and things start to shift in favor of the Necrons. This is of course assuming you leave them in HtH and don't just pull them out and blow the crap out of those few piddly Marines.

Moz wrote:I agree with blklotus here. Necrons are fighting for last place with the new marine codex.

The New Marine codex is fine if the person playing it knows what he is doing

The necron dex however.. .needs some work!

You are correct... only 3pf attacks. my bad.

frgsinwntr wrote:

Moz wrote:I agree with blklotus here. Necrons are fighting for last place with the new marine codex.

The New Marine codex is fine if the person playing it knows what he is doing

The necron dex however.. .needs some work!

I think the Necron codex is mostly fine myself. Doesn't mean I'm not anxiously awaiting a new one, just to see what cool new stuff and new kits we get. The only real functional changes I would make is the standard switching WBB to FNP and removing Phase Out. Just because I deal with Phase Out doesn't mean I like it .

And anyone who seriously advocates that the new Marine codex is near the bottom... Well I'm not even going to try.

Well, under ideal circumstances for the Chaos marines, and assuming roughly equal points:

10 Chaos marins with an AC with a powerfist get to charge a unit of 10 warriors. Marines strike first and cause 5 unsaved wounds. Necrons stike back and cause about HALF a wound. Then the AC stikes back with his fist, causing another wound. Necron now test leadership at 4 or 5.

How do the marines cause 5 unsaved wounds?
10 x 3 = 30 attacks
30 / 2 = 15 hits
15 / 2 = 7.5 wounds
7.5 / 3 = 2.5 dead necrons

Actually, since the champ uses his fist it's
2.5 x (9/10) = 2.25 dead.

The champ: 3 attacks
3 / 2 = 1.5 hit
1.5 x (5/6) = 1.25 dead
So 3 and 1/2 dead necrons

10 warriors = 10 attacks
10 / 2 = 5 hits
5 / 2 = 2.5 wounds
2.5 / 3 = 8.3 dead marines

Necrons will probably test on Ld 7. (This is still quite a gamble with such an expensive unit.)

whoops, my math was wrong. Sorry about that.

No problem!
Leadership 7 is still nothing to rely on. Not with 180 points.
Necron players need to be a lot more careful now.

I find that in order for a warrior squad to be effective you need 13 warriors. Minimum.
I've had ideal with 15.
It is very had to wipe out 15 warriors. Especially with a Res orb.
All you need is one Warrior alive in that squad and you'll see ~ 50% come back the next turn.
Which works out better than FNP since they can only get downed once, rather than be forced to take multiple FNP rolls.
Also if a unit is going to charge 15 necrons, they'll most likely get a turn of 15x rapid fire on them first.
Plus I want that front squad to get wiped out if I can't pull it out with a Monolith or Lord, since they'll just join the supporting squad of warriors next to them outside of combat.
Warriors should never march alone.
then there is a sweet 55 point 5 wound counter charge insurance unit.
the Tomb Spyder. First turn build 1 swarm, it gets 3 more T6 wounds (though at a 5+ save)

the key = just forget the dang destroyers if your running C'tan or Liths
With Gods and Houses, you need LOTS of warriors.
The Destroyers are just to fragile to run lest than 12

Mathhammer is not warhammer.

Squads of 13-15 warriors is clutch.

"With Gods and Houses, you need LOTS of warriors."

Good point.