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Every few months or so I get to come back home from College to enjoy a relaxing, stress-free period of days where my only worry is how much sleep I can squeeze into a 24-hour day, and the improvement of my Army Lists. As such, this past Thanksgiving I cracked out the Guard for a looksee.

I want your opinions on this, if you please. I feel like it's nestled in the Semi-Competitive region of Army Builds, but I want to know how to improve.

Thanks in advance.

CK

* * * * *
HEADQUARTERS

Heroic Sr Officer - Iron Discipline
Staff - Plasma Guns (2), Standard Bearer, Medic
Commissar
Chimera - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

3x Lascannon

3x Lascannon

Inquisitor Lord - Psychic Hood, Storm Bolter
Acolytes (2) - Carapace Armor, Storm Bolter
Mystics (2)
Gun Servitor - Heavy Bolter

ELITES

Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (2), Flamethrower

Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (2), Flamethrower

Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (2), Flamethrower

TROOPS

Jr Officer - Honorifica, Iron Discipline
Staff - Plasma Guns (2), Medic
Commissar
Chimera - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) - Plasma Guns (2)

Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) - Plasma Guns (2)

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

* * * * *

2566pts

132 Models, 8 Vehicles.

I'm having trouble deciding what the best course of action is with respect to cutting points. I'm thinking that I will be better off having 3 Gun Servitors with the Inquisitor Lord, and that the Storm Trooper Grenadier Squads can be cut down to size, but I wanted to get some second opinions.

I'm also considering a 3rd Chimera to field an Armored Fist Squad in place of the Storm Troopers to get the bloat down -- I'd be using the Infantry Platoon's Fifth Squad. That would put me at 2471 points -- just enough left over for some Extra Armor on the Russes and maybe a Bolt Pistol or two for the Officers.

So, what do y'all think?

CK

Why are you mixing Flamers and Meltas in the H-Vet Squads. They're going to land, shoot, and then die. In that space of time you need to cause as much damage as possible. 3 Meltas will allow you to do that. A Flamer dilutes their role and other units in your army can do anti-infantry work whereas no one does anti-tank quite like 3 BS4 Meltas.

BYE

My reasoning behind mixing a Flamethrower and two Meltaguns was that if I ended up fighting an infantry-heavy army, or if I scattered away from my intended target, that I would at least be able to fry a couple of critters before biting it.

I guess in the long run the whole duality approach only serves to create a unit that is a Jack of all trades, but a master of none. I'll need to play a few games with them before I'm thoroughly convinced either way.

CK

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:I want your opinions on this, if you please.

[SNIP!]

2566pts (132 Models, 8 Vehicles)

I'm having trouble deciding what the best course of action is with respect to cutting points.

You're aware that Guard are getting redone about 6 months from now, right?

By and large, this looks like a standard Drop Guard force. Assuming that Drop Troops will still be available, with similar options, my comments are as follows:

- In a Drop force, I look at the non-Scoring Command HQ as a disposable unit. So I'll typically throw 4 Plasma guns at it for 8 Plasma shots on the Drop!

- Chimera is a pretty bad choice for the points right now, but the points should come down substantially in the new book. And it's a nice model. With standard Multi-Laser and HB, this works fine.

- HWS Lascannon are kinda expensive and not so good in Drop Troops. I'd rather take SWS Melta / DC teams, and save 70 pts.

- Inquisitor Lord is expensive, but I'd just take 2 Mystics and a Familiar to keep the points down, then toss him in a Chimera (or Land Raider, if you have the points).

- Veterans are good, but why aren't these triple Melta? If you need anti-Infantry, won't your Hellhounds take care of that for you?

- Oh yeah, Commissars are a waste of points, especially after you take Honorifica. Nice models, tho...

- Troops Chimera is points better spent toward a 2nd Platoon

- Autocannon / Plas isn't a bad fit, though you could stand to mix in some MLs for variety / anti-Horde.

- Grenadiers aren't bad to fill the points, and the models are nice. But as foot-Scoring, they're not much good. You're Drop, so if you cut a Chimera and both of these, you could have a 2nd mini Platoon, with a suicide Command Squad with 4 Plasma, backed by a couple cheap Melta squads...

- Hellhounds are great. I need a 3rd.

- If you're taking the fight to them, why not consider Demolishers? S10 AP2 Ordnance makes Nob Bikers cry, along with pretty much anything else they hit. Plus AV13/11 cuts out a lot of the riff-raff.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:My reasoning behind mixing a Flamethrower and two Meltaguns was that if I ended up fighting an infantry-heavy army, or if I scattered away from my intended target, that I would at least be able to fry a couple of critters before biting it.

Pick a single role for each of your squads and stick to that role. A game of 40K isn't long enough, nor do those sorts of units survive long enough, to be able to do more than one thing. There are very few units that can do lots of things. Guard don't have any.

BYE

Does this look better?

* * * * *
HEADQUARTERS

JO - Iron Discipline
Staff - Plasma Guns (2), Standard Bearer, Medic
Commissar
Chimera - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

3x Lascannon
3x Lascannon

ELITES

Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (3)
Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (3)
Hardened Veterans (5) - Bolter, Meltagun (3)

Inquisitor - Psychic Hood
Mystics (2)
Rhino - Extra Armor, Smoke

TROOPS

JO - Iron Discipline
Staff - Plasma Guns (2), Medic
Commissar
Chimera - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad (10) - Autocannon, Plasma Gun

Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) - Plasma Guns (2)
Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) - Plasma Guns (2)

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Hellhound - Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers
Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers
Leman Russ - Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

* * * * *

Comes out to around 2495 points.

The Inquisitor Lord was changed to a standard Inquisitor, and given a Rhino to 1> Utilize the Rhino I have sitting on my shelf and 2> Give him and the Mystics some mobility. I might try to find points and give the Rhino a second SB and Psycannon Bolts (4 Str4 AP4 shots isn't bad IMHO, and it gives the vehicle something to do).

The Officers got downgraded, but with the Commissars and Iron Discipline my squads can still rally at Ld9 when under half strength. If I had the money, I would field Mech IG and not even worry about gear for the Command Squads, but for the time being they get the job done without too much bloat.

Also, I forgot to add Doctrines:

Grenadiers
Iron Discipline
Veterans
Close Order Drill
Drop Troops

Grenadiers allows me to field more than one Troops choice. They hang back and tend to draw fire away from the rank-and-file because my opponents see them as easy points. They tend to either get wiped out (thereby taking fire away from my heavy weapons) or ignored until the double-tap with 5 Hellguns and 2 Plasmas -- at which point they get wiped out (but only after taking something expensive with them). I like them, and they tend to do well for me if I use them conservatively.

Iron Discipline needs no explanation.

Veterans allows me to take what is arguably the best unit in the game, point-for-point. Three Deep Striking (via Drop Troops) Meltaguns per squad forms the bulk of my anti-tank, with the Lascannons and Plasma Guns forming a moderately robust secondary defense.

Close Order Drill -- because I can, and because it's free.

Drop Troops -- See Veterans.

* * * * *

In all, I think 3 Inferno Cannons, 3 Battlecannons, and a whole truckload of Lasgun, Autocannon, Multilaser, and Plasma fire to back it up makes for a decently shooty list that can effectively deal with the abundance of cover saves in 5th without compromising too much of its anti-tank capability.

Thoughts?

CK

Is Inquisitor HQ or Elite, cause otherwise you got 4 Elite there.

The Inquisitor comes from the allied DH. Units selected in this way do not overclock my 3 Elite limit, if I'm not mistaken.

Regardless, I should probably change it to avoid any misunderstandings.

CK

Thats alot of firepower. We should playtest it soon.

I think the Inquisitor needs to upgrade to Inq. Lord with a 3rd model if you have all 3 Elite slots taken by Vets.

Also, the HQ Command doesn't make sense with Standard, Commissar and Plasma. Either:
- all-Plasma as a suicide team, or
- JO w/ Honor; Standard, 48" Heavy gun.

Similarly, the Troops HQ should be all Plasma, as they can't even take Standard. The Medic is a waste, and should just be more Plasma.

In case, lose the useless and bad Commissars to get the points.