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At the hobby store I frequent it seems that the majority of games played are 2players per side, with 1,000 points per player. This is my new IG list that is designed to compliment a sisters of battle force.

The sisters primary roles are fast attack and fire-powered crowd control. point capture is a joint role, but the sisters seem a bit more suited to the task and is uniformly mechanized. This List will probably work fairly well with any non-xenos mechanized build.

The role of this IG list is heavy support, tank hunting and anti av2. Any constructive criticism/positive or negative is very appreciated.

+++++++++++EDIT ALERT, EDIT ALERT++++++++++++
THIS LIST IS NOW IN "FINAL" FORM. THANKS TO ALL WHO PUT IN .02!!!!

Here goes... 1,000 points on the dot

Doctrines: Grenadiers, Drop troops, Veterans, close order drill, iron dicipline
----------------
HQ- 85 points
----------------
Command HQ (drop-troops) -85pts
JO w/laspistol, ccw
4 grunts w/ plasma guns
Iron dicipline

--------------------
Elites- 150 points
--------------------

Vetran Squad #1 (drop-troops) - 75 pts.

srg. w/ lasgun
grunt w/lasgun
3 grunts w/ melta

Veteran Squad #2 (Drop-troops) - 75 pts.

Srg. W/ lasgun
grunt w/lasgun
3 grunts w/ melta

----------------------
Troops - 310 points
----------------------

Stormtrooper Squad #1 -155 pts.

Stormtrooper Sgt. W/ hellpistol & CCW
2 Stormtroopers w/ hellguns
2 stormtroopers w/ plasma guns
Mounted in Chimera w/ HB & Multilaser



Stormtrooper Squad #2 - 155 pts.

Stormtrooper Sgt. W/ hellpistol & CCW
2 Stormtroopers w/ hellguns
2 Stormtroopers w/ plasma guns
Mounted in Chimera w/ HB & Multilaser

------------------------
Heavy Support - 455
------------------------

LRBT w/ 3 heavy heavy bolters

LR Demolisher w/ heavy bolter

LR Demolisher w/ heavy bolter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dat'z the lhist

Drop the plasma guns, use the points to get yourself a Heroic Senior (or to put a Honorifica Imperialis on that puppy).

Your drop-trooping tank hunting veterans are right on the spot.

If you're allying SOB and they have the fast attack and they have the capture of other objectives down (or you want to actually help hold an objective), you're going to want more scoring units out there. Drop a tank - add a platoon of infantry. Two squads of storm troopers equal to 10 wounds that you've left to help score, even mounted, aren't going to stick around that long - if I'm looking to win the game, I'm going to try and pop their Chimera's pretty quickly. Out in the open, my anti-infantry can handle the 10 wounds you've got trying to clutch to cover.

Drop a tank - one of the demolishers. 1 platoon of infantry, dropping out of strategic reserve, gives you three scoring units that can hold your own objectives while the ladies and your Stroopers ramble ahead to take their objectives. For 165 points (two barebone squads + a JO with iron discipline), you can hold down the fort while the other, more expensive units deal with the opponent. As mentioned before, drop them in from your strategic reserve - minimize the rounds they're open to get shot at.

I was thinking about a HSO, but, what purpose would he actually serve? the vets are likely to be dropping all over the place so he won't be likely to boost their ld by 1, and they are suicide troops anyways. As a 3rd drop squad the hq shines pretty well on paper. On foot he won't be able to keep up with the tide of iron and even if he catces up what good will he do? +1 ld? he definately wont provide any real support to the fight as far as shots go. I considered fielding my hq as posted with a chimera for an even 165 points (as opposed to the 2nd demo) and putting it in the tide of iron, still tossing around a bit on that... I'd have to buy another chimera but that's NBD.
The suggestion of the extra troops with HSO is good, but I'm kinda chicken about putting that many moar killpoints on the field considering the amount of vehicles we are fielding.
due to the squishiness of guard infantry platoons I have only managed to win (and this is generous) 1/5 annihalation games...

HSO wouldn't help you here. That CHQ is going to die no matter which way you slice it. The presence of two extra T3 wounds won't make any difference there.

I don't like Grenadiers, I really don't, and I feel that Guard without actual Guardsmen is kinda lame. Just doesn't feel right to me. In any case, if you are going to take them, then make them as effective as you can.

To that end, mixing special weapons will not help these units. You should take 2 Plasma Guns per squad for two reasons:

1. Your 4+ saves makes you less vunlerable to overheatas from rapid firing.
2. You already have two Dropping Melta units.

Mixing weapons dilutes their roll and makes them ineffective.

I suspect the presence of two Demolishers will keep the heat off the regular Russ. I'd consider putting the sponsons on the Russ though rather than the Demolisher.

Otherwise, given your stated aims, this list is fine.

BYE

This looks fine. Tho, if you pull the overpriced Chimeras, you can practically take a mini-Platoon of guys armed with Specials.

Trading 2 non-scoring tanks for 3 more Droppable Scoring units should be good.

You play Guard. You lose at kill points. You really can't win at kill points. This happens.

Your trade off is that you can dig in by an objective, and have numerous scoring units at your disposal.

My opinion is to kill them all and let the Emperor sort them out.

Edit: to the post above me, if you deprive the Storm Troopers of their Escalade, you make them five wound scoring units that have to hoof it everywhere (no Grenadier can infiltrate or deep strike, per the doctrine). This causes him to lose the synergy with the SOB and their mechi-ness, as well as creating two lame duck units that cost more than a squad of infantry.

Foot Grenadiers are fine. You use them as utility guys to shadow Tanks or hold the Objectives in the backfield. A couple BS4 Plasma makes people be a little scared about them, but they're a PITA to hunt down.

Trading non-Scoring, overpriced Chimeras for additions Drop units increases the overall Guard synergy, as you now have 6 Droppable units (HQ, 2 Vets, 3 Troops) to drops in and go after mid-field / enemy Objectives.

Besides, 5 Storms in AV10 Chimeras simply do not compete with 11-pt Sv3+ Sisters in cheaper AV11 Rhinos.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't like Grenadiers, I really don't, and I feel that Guard without actual Guardsmen is kinda lame. Just doesn't feel right to me. In any case, if you are going to take them, then make them as effective as you can.

I haven't been fielding grenadiers for very long, or playing guard for very long either, but the idea of slightly harder to kill and more accurately shooting troops seems fairly appealing to me on paper. In practice only time will tell me, but, I'd appreciate any thoughts you have had on the choice of grenadiers aside from your understandable disposition towards guard that lacks guardsman.

bryantsbears wrote:
no Grenadier can infiltrate or deep strike, per the doctrine)

I was wondering if the drop troops doctrine supercedes this rule as they are in direct conflict. The faq/errata dosn't have anything on this.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Besides, 5 Storms in AV10 Chimeras simply do not compete with 11-pt Sv3+ Sisters in cheaper AV11 Rhinos.

I know!!! My troops are lame/gimp in this build!
The reason I chose to go with this troop type is purly the economics (points wise) to get the chimeras into the tank lines. The 3multilaser, 3 HB, plasma or melta shot from the fire point, and 4 lasgun shots from the chimrea I believe put out a good deal of fire support to the tank line, but, not quite enough to warrent concintrated fire from the enemy. they might be a tempting target due to av12 but there are immolaters, demolishers and juicier av11 rhinos all around that I hope will provide enough distraction to our opponents to let these mobile pillboxes be.

Any thoughts?

Well if you didn't have to stick to the FOC Chart, you could take Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and stick them in a cheaper Rhino.

But that would kind've lose the flavour.

As far as this goes:

I haven't been fielding grenadiers for very long, or playing guard for very long either, but the idea of slightly harder to kill and more accurately shooting troops seems fairly appealing to me on paper.

Everyting in 40K is about roles. You must pick a role for a unit and then use that unit in its role to get the best out of it.

Storm Troopers (and, by extension, Grenadiers) have a different role to Infantry so neither is 'better' than the other. One is designed for holding the line and blazing away with Heavy Weapons. The other is designed for small close-ranged strikes against vital targets (Storm Troopers are, after all, the Special Forces of the Imperial Guard).

However, as you'll quickly find, the extra 4 points per model you're paying doesn't go very far. 4+ save isn't worth 2 points, let alone 4 point, you don't use Frags, you don't need Kraks, Hellguns are pathetic, and you can't get Heavy Weapons. Storm Troops usually die quite quickly - it's the nature of their mission assignments and the types of weapons they get (all around 12" in range). A 4+ save doesn't change that.

Shooting better is nice, but Hardened Veterans (if we're comparing roles as opposed to stats) do a better job at being Storm Troopers than Storm Troopers do, being able to bring more BS4 guns to the table.

In the list you posted the Grenadiers are fine given the type of list you want, but as I said, make sure they're the best Grenadiers points can buy, and to do that you cannot mix special weapons (ie. confuse their role).

Would you be better off with Infantry Platoons? Yes, they're better in the role of general infantry than Grenadiers ever will be, and you can't build an army of Storm Troopers as they are terrible (I know, my Inquisitorial army is 6 units of Storm Troopers in Chimeras and as fun as they are to play, they're horrible). But would Infantry fit in this list? Probably not. It's designed to go with a SoB MechInF force, so you've maxed out on tanks and bought transports for your guys, and anything else you're Deep Striking.

That's fine. I like the concept. What you just have to accept is that Storm Troopers are, comparativley, bad units. Their role is better filled by other units and they are so monofocused that they can't compete against anything else in the list. H-Vets will always win out (until Jervis takes them away in the next Codex).

BYE

Thanks for the helpful suggestions from everyone who has helped give me ideas so far!
The modifications to the list are looking like:

-----------------------------------------------------
The grenadiers are going to be equipped melta/melta and plasma/plasma (due to only having one of each for now
=OR=
Grenadier squads will have one plasma gun each (there is only one fire point for it in the chimera anyways)
the JO will lose Iron Dicipline
A Demolisher will gain Improved Comms, fer the DEEP STRIKES!
-----------------------------------------------------

I can't decide and a coin toss is too much like a guardsman shooting.

*edit*
Also Bolter sponsons will be moved to the LRBT

Do the former (Melta/Melta and Plasma/Plasma).

Eventually you can get a couple of extra blisters of Special Weapons, but for the moment that'll do. What I'd suggest though is checking with your SoB ally to see how many Meltas they're bringing. You don't want to be too redundant.

BYE

Aight! the list has been touched up and is sitting in "final" form or at least it's first final form... I'll throw up some notes on how it performs after 5-10 games. Thank you all once again for all your suggestions!

played this in a team tourney today (my 1st tourney) and did pretty darn good. lost a tie to kp's (by 1) due to a madly saving/WBBacking mad doc grotsnik sweeping 3 squads of sisters tho. Smashed on a lot of ork players. We did not win, but as we've only been playing since august we were proud to take down some VERY exp teams.