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So, word has come that the theme of the new IG codex is "the opening battle of Enemy at the Gates." We all know the scene; mass suicide rush of russian conscripts, most not sure of which end of the rifle points towards the enemy, in a completely useless gesture that ends with the Russians gunning down as many of their own as the Germans did. Epic and amazing scene that portrays the pointlessness of war and the utter ineptitude of the Red Army at the time.

So, who wants to play the suicide rush army? Paint three hundred models, which each have faces and equipment and all that other detail, just to kill them by the score for nothing? I don't know about you, but I don't like padding in an army, and having to pad out hundreds of useless infantry just to get a few good tanks is not my idea of fun.

Not to mention the fluff problems. Anbett and co aside, why the hell would the Imperium bother to use their expensive warp ships to transport men hundreds and thousands of light-years to run them at machine-guns? And you figure, in the three months or so that their on the ship, you could, I dunno, train them? Like what happened in the old fluff?

I've invested a lot into my Guard army, and I really, really don't want to see the whole thing invalidated and turned into a useless zerg-rush horde, but that's increasingly what the rumours indicate. Any thoughts?

I think it's more putting a time stamp on the feel of the IG.

Rather than being a modern day equivilance (I'd say thats more the Tau) they are based on older Warfare.

And that is a single, off the cuff comment from Bell of Lost Souls. I wouldn't go reading too much into it.

Because you have to buy more models?

Massed ranks of below average troops charging = FAIL
Massed ranks of below average troops shooting at the enemy with lame guns (but lots of them) = WIN

It's a horrible movie and the best thing to do right now is to sit down and wait for concrete info to pour in. Once we hit 2009 we'll get the real deal, not some off-hand remark or rumours, which are just that, nothing concrete or solid.

However, I do have a feeling that the days of the "Abnett Guardsman" are over.

The sex scene really makes that movie if they wanted to make IG interesting they would draw inspiration from that.

I keep envisioning the guardsmen as the Germans-knocking the traitor heads about the head and face with armor, airpower, and superior tactics.

Hey come on the movie was good from a sniper point of view, the first scenes, and the images where the snipers are in the department store and the bombers are coming...

But yes, I'm thinking V2. Hordes with guns. Little options.

If you really want to make the Guard interesting then give the people what they really, really seem to want:

Yup! Female russkis ftw!

Well I think instead of making zerg rush guardsmen what they're getting at is you're gonna need to have a lot of men.. in the end though I think you will end up wanting about 50% guys and 50% tanks.

I'm planning to keep my army pretty much the same..

2 platoons of 2 infantry squads, 2 units of stormtroopers and a few vets. CHQ with a unit of lascannons. Maybe it'll change and I'll have 2 units of lascannons 1 in each platoon. The rest is all tanks. Seems to work fine for me now, I don't see it changing much... till they make plastic Valkeryies

ermm one word for those pics....schwing!

open_sketchbook wrote:So, word has come that the theme of the new IG codex is "the opening battle of Enemy at the Gates." We all know the scene; mass suicide rush of russian conscripts, most not sure of which end of the rifle points towards the enemy, in a completely useless gesture that ends with the Russians gunning down as many of their own as the Germans did. Epic and amazing scene that portrays the pointlessness of war and the utter ineptitude of the Red Army at the time.

Any thoughts?

I think you're getting a worried for nothing.

The enemy at the gates thing might refer to a single unit or a set of rule that affect a small number of units.

The IG codex should allow you to create a wide range of army types, a faceless horde being just one of them.

I'm hoping that this 'Enemy at the gates' reference is a hint of upcoming plastic Valhallans and useful Commissars and sniper squads.

If we're really lucky it'll also mean Commissar blocking squads and the occasional female guards(wo)man model, perhaps with a heavy stubber.

The only thing I fear is a radical shake up of the way heavy and special weapons are allocated within a platoon, although I could accept Dawn of War style squads. Oh, and my drop troops needing a major overhaul just to make them playable.

I'm similarly a bit perturbed by the idea that all IG players'll be forcibly moved towards an army based around suicide-rush infantry and craploads of tanks. That's not what I personally want from my IG army, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of other IG players out there, with armies that are more individual than tank-spam and cannon-fodder, are also becoming worried by these rumours.

Currently, my army is based around the idea of a heavy-infantry-ish force with only a Leman Russ Exterminator for heavy support, as a sort of infantry tank. The infantry have the gear to deal with enemy tanks, whilst the Exterminator sits there and blows apart any enemy infantry that comes into its range. I didn't want to go for tank, tanks and more tanks as it seems somewhat unoriginal (plus I tend to baulk at painting tanks). I've developed a fair bit of fluff for my dudes, and I'd rather not be forced by GW to have my PBI as purely living shields for Leman Russ tanks.

"The Imperial Guard is the largest and most diverse organisation the galaxy has ever seen... but we only charge suicidally towards the enemy guns whilst shedloads of tanks blow crap up."

Perhaps this is being taken the wrong way. What if that statement was meant as 'watch the opening of enemy at the gates, and see how the German army was destroying the Russians. That's what we want the guard to be, efficient and deadly with lots of options...'

Ahh, what am I thinking. Good thing I already have a couple hundred painted IG.

Buckethead wrote:Perhaps this is being taken the wrong way. What if that statement was meant as 'watch the opening of enemy at the gates, and see how the German army was destroying the Russians. That's what we want the guard to be, efficient and deadly with lots of options...'

I'd have imagined they'd have been a bit more specific if they wanted to infer that they meant the Germans, rather than the USSR Conscripts.

Maybe they meant both sides?

It was an off the cuff comment from an rumour website. Not a mission statement by GW about their plans!

Osbad wrote:

(Horrible stuff)

Yup! Female russkis ftw!

The next time someone does something like that to me without a warning I'll get angry. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

i think we will be ok, from what i have read the gaurd come base 4 pts and then you can customize the hell out of them from there, making them vets, 10 man heavy weapon squads (finally!), 3 special weapon drop squads, etc.

Brimstone is on the right track i believe, and we shouldnt worry. i have read all thge rumors out so far and that one comment from BoLS is the first i have heard in the direction of enemy at the gates. evewrything else sounds awesome for IG, which i hope is true as they are my favorite army to play.

if the majority of the rumors we have seen turn out to be true, the IG will be a fun army with los of options and even more powerful on the table. I am very optimistic for what is to come.

Just in time for the new IG Codex, and keeping with the theme of this post I give you Angel One:

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=996

Yep thats correct, over 250 models...all female.

"George Spiggott" Drop IG is one of the best armies right now how are you not doing good? There more then playable.

Think they will keep to the current Idea and just make alot of pt adjusment's like 4pt IG

Reecius wrote:i think we will be ok, from what i have read the gaurd come base 4 pts and then you can customize the hell out of them from there, making them vets, 10 man heavy weapon squads (finally!), 3 special weapon drop squads, etc.

Brimstone is on the right track i believe, and we shouldnt worry. i have read all thge rumors out so far and that one comment from BoLS is the first i have heard in the direction of enemy at the gates. evewrything else sounds awesome for IG, which i hope is true as they are my favorite army to play.

if the majority of the rumors we have seen turn out to be true, the IG will be a fun army with los of options and even more powerful on the table. I am very optimistic for what is to come.

Respectfully, I was told that about the Chaos codex as well. I will believe it when I see, but all I am hearing are limitations, not improvements.

There is something left to limit in the current IG list?

Wipe out the doctrines, its pretty limited.

ghostmaker wrote:"George Spiggott" Drop IG is one of the best armies right now how are you not doing good? There more then playable.

To clarify; if I need to make changes when the new codex is released to make it playable like I did after the Elysian Drop Troop WD list became the Doctrines system I will be displeased.

Right now the bulk of my army is HQ squad, Heavy Bolter squad, three squads of Veterans with shotguns, three squads of Grenadiers and two squads of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. I'd like to continue to be able to field all of these in an army.

I'm not an expert on IG or anything, but when I think "opening scenes of Enemy at the Gates" the first two specifics that come to mind are things that either already seem excellent to characterize the IG (namely, that Commissars definitely feel like the officers at the back, fully prepared to shoot cowards themselves as "motivational" inspiration for the rest of the conscripts), or potentially really good abilities that could be applied (in Enemy at the Gates, the Russians, being poorly equipped and supplied, give out weapons to pairs of men -- one gets the gun, the other gets the clip. The guy with the clip is told to run behind the guy with the gun, and pick up the gun when the first guy dies). On the second point, yes, the pessimistic way of looking at that is to assume that the theme is that of underequipped suicidal charging. But I don't think the implication is that the new codex will only issue a lasgun to every other guardsman. Instead, what if that's supposed to relate to the heavy weapons, rather than rank and file rifles. It would certainly be neat if IG got to "pick up" the special weapon of a fallen guardsman, and this could easily be represented in the rules by exempting specially equipped weapon upgrade models from individual wound allocation. And that could be a pretty awesome special rule.

George Spiggott wrote:

ghostmaker wrote:"George Spiggott" Drop IG is one of the best armies right now how are you not doing good? There more then playable.

To clarify; if I need to make changes when the new codex is released to make it playable like I did after the Elysian Drop Troop WD list became the Doctrines system I will be displeased.

Right now the bulk of my army is HQ squad, Heavy Bolter squad, three squads of Veterans with shotguns, three squads of Grenadiers and two squads of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. I'd like to continue to be able to field all of these in an army.

Good luck with that.

Osbad wrote:




Yup! Female russkis ftw!

wow, that looks like it belongs more in C&C Red Alert 3 promo videos than in real life. check out the camera guy trying to get an upskirt video, lol!

I reckon they are going to be one of the hardest armies to design properly. Especially because of that completely arseways kill points rule.
If they do a good job though I'd love to collect a guard army. The way it is now none of the builds I want to play would actually work that well.

Da Boss wrote:I reckon they are going to be one of the hardest armies to design properly. Especially because of that completely arseways kill points rule.
If they do a good job though I'd love to collect a guard army. The way it is now none of the builds I want to play would actually work that well.

the only way i see it working is if they assign a kill point to a platoon instead of individual squads. otherwise, combined with the stereotypical guard flashlights and "slightly better than orkskin" saves, we're toast!