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Hey, I'm considering getting back into 40k.

I played heavily back in the days of 3rd edition, most commonly as World Eater CSM.

Tons of armies can all do the shooty thing or basic tactical stuff, but I want to know what army is most powerful without relying on heavy shooting. (Unless it's like... orks and somehow might be amazing at both, I Don't know how things are in this edition.)

Possible choices such as:
1) Vanilla Marines w/ tons of assault squads or scouts or veterans. Maybe a special character or something. I think vanilla marines might be cheaper than chaos specialists, but not as awesome.
2) Chaos Marines w/ assault focus.
3) World Eaters chaos.
4) Orkz with lots of melee bikers and melee troops.
5) Tyranids (although I refuse to play as the bugs)
6) Blood Angels or Space Wolves or Black Templar - Although unless their codex are made for the current edition, I'm not sure if they're fair game. Black Templar might get nerfed to be more like normal SMs later.
7) Other.

I'd have to class Imperial Guard / Tau / Necrons / Eldar as races which Must shoot to win.

Thoughts from those who've played large numbers of games in current edition?

Black templar with the emperor’s champion that gives you preferred enemy.

Grimaldius
Chaplin with 3 cenobite servitors
2 or 3 of the 20 man templar squads with melta gun, power fist.

Las plas squads... or anything that has a lascannon on it for anti tank.... the las plas are good for holding an OBJ or quarter.

If one of the models in a templar squad dies, then they take a ladyship test. If they pass (with grimaldus and the Chaplin you are fearless) then you move D6 inches toward an enemy of your choice (without the Chaplin, it is to closest enemy).

For each of those servitors you have you add +1 inch to that movement.

If you have the points, take a tech marine with servo harness and attach him to one of the squads. He adds more power weapon and power fist attacks.

Well, the best melee armies are Orks and Nids.
Chaos is good in hth, too. But the army is rather expensive model-wise.

3 posts without mentioning Daemons? Ridiculous. Play a game without a shooting phase vs. a good Khorne Daemon list and it's over before it starts.

Khorne Daemons
Orks
Nids
Black Templars
Chaos Space Marines

CK

Grimaldus + marshal is better.. Why do you need 2 chaplains when with grim you can give all your units the chaplain ability within 6".. Just mix each unit inside one another

Marshall allows Grim to be almost immune dying, 95% chance to save vs every single weapon in the game an unlimited amount of times

It's almost like having a falcon with vectored engines (except he cant be shaken or immoblized!)

Kirasu wrote:Grimaldus + marshal is better.. Why do you need 2 chaplains when with grim you can give all your units the chaplain ability within 6".. Just mix each unit inside one another

Marshall allows Grim to be almost immune dying, 95% chance to save vs every single weapon in the game an unlimited amount of times

It's almost like having a falcon with vectored engines (except he cant be shaken or immoblized!)

How long ago was the BT codex released? I'm just hesitant of going SM if only a non-vanilla SM codex is more effective than say, ork nobz or chaos stuff.

Well probably not the best by any stretch but pretty scary if done right. Necrons.

Nightbringer
Necron lord w/destroyer body
9 tomb spiders
3 x 10 scarab swarms with Disruption fields
5 flayed ones out flanking
3x10 necron warriors

Army grows 27 wounds a turn and has tons of monstrous creatures running around. With the Nightbringer you have the nastiest CC monster in the game. Not to mention turbo boosting swarms with 3+cover save. That tarpit units till the big nastys get there. It runs like i had envisioned Tyrinids should play.

Not the best but wanted to offer you another option. But it is hella tough to get all the swarms.

ladyship test.

Hilarious. I thought it was a typo at first.

I get scarred when a HUGE group of blood crushers are charging towards my lines.

Just melee army- Deamons either tons of bloodletters and bloodcrushers or a nugle based army with the tally.

Really scarry shooting & melee army- Nob Bikers

It's not so much that BT is more effective persay.. Just that it's really brutal in CC.

Edit - nm

Black Templars are good.
Chaos Space Marines are good.
Nids are good.
Daemons are good.
Orks are good.

Which is the best? Its hard to say. But these armies are the Close Combat kings. They all have their advantages. There are a few I have experience with:

Templars: They have can take an upgrade which gives everyone preferred enemy and they have righteous zeal. This is a very deadly combo. Not only will they get to you faster, but they fight better than most things.

Chaos Space Marines: Daemon princes are amazingly cheap and kill most everything. Khorne Berzerkers in rhinos or Land raiders kill most things.

Daemons: Power weapons everywhere. They have obscenely good HQ choices that can dominate the game. They also have bloodcrushers, which are arguably the toughest and hardest fighting unit in the game.

They use a bit of dakka 'cause it is built onto their bikes, but a good nob biker army is almost unbeatable when played properly.

People will post methods on HOW to beat them, but when the dice start rolling and they get to krumpin' there is nothing that can stop them.

Daemons are the scariest after the nob bikers.

i think a full on melee nids army would be the best.

Either Footsloggin Orks (with Stormboyz and kommandos) or Biker Orks by far.
Currently they are cheaper than nids and have more attacks (it think) otherwise for swarm armies I'de have to say nids.

For SM i would personally put BA and then BT at the top (BA due to all being jump pack troops if you want + Deathcompany)

BA lead by Dante and Corbulo with lots of power fists in the area of their effect.

G

I'm with Nids.

The whole army is going to basically have preferred enemy thanks to ubiquitous 1pt feeder tendrils on genestealers. Beyond that you've got plenty of monstrous creature CC love mixed in with effective CC in your troop slots.

Nids are unique in that you can really pour every last point of your list into making it better at closecombat, every other list is saddled with points burned in pistols, leadership upgrades, transports, special weapons. Nids just buy more teeth and more claws.

I have seen biker nobz blast through nids too many times. I have seen biker nobs blast through everything when played properly.
If you have never seen them actually maul an army, you wouldn't believe how effective they are.

When the first squad hits and starts stompin, it looks bad. The Kommandos then insert behind as the bosses biker mob hits.

It is a thing of beauty.

Ork Biker Nobs are currently the best melee army in the game; followed closely by Ork Horde.

I'm going to have to say Orks, simply by the sheer number of good, cheap combat troops they can get that can be given an Inv or cover save and swamp you.

Tyranid close combat stuff, I think, is currently overcosted. So Hormagaunts are fast. They are 10 points for T3 and a bare minimum save, even more expensive with upgrades. Orks will laugh at them. Rending is nerfed, so I think the rending upgrades are a bit overcosted now. Stealers are still good in certain situations, but Raveners and Lictors were all but killed off by the new combat rules. At least Lictors still give preferred enemy

I would say CSM's.

lots of powerful CC HQ's, troops, beasties, and I havent really had any problems with nob bikers when I hit them with a squad of zerks. (easy to do when you tarpit them with a big unit of lesser daemons the turn before).

I would not argue that orks are probably the most powerful CC army, but I feel CSM's are a more effective one. they have better staying power for being MEQ, have access to MC's, and in general benifits from higher base str, WS and I.

Khorne daemons (especilly skar lists) are probably the most brutal CC army, but that power is dificult to direct effectivley.

I do think that orks would not be in the running for top CC army if it were not for nob bikers. they are sick, no doubt, but an opponent who faces them often will develop tactics enough for dealing with them, and your group's metagame could change to include lots of anti-nob-biker units and weapons. best not to rely one one unit to cary you through all the time.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! You guys don't realize that Tau are the best CC army.

Tyranids win out simply because of lashwhips.

Deamons are the best overal HtH army. With eternal warrior widespread and the ability to take either a godzilla list or blood crusher list, there isint too much that can stand up to that kind of HtH.

Nids.

Well, indeed, Nids are the best cc army.

Daemons ftw.

Orks win hands down. They have the best mix of CC and shooty.

you can totally do a CC + Shooty list that will outshoot a shooty list and out CC an All CC list.



best CC unit in the game = Nobz Bikers followed by Bloodcrushers

Nobz bikers wins hands down because they can handle any threat. Bloodcrushers cant handle tanks or walkers also crushers are slow and suffer from random arrival via deepstrike

armies in order I think

Orks
Chaos Deamons
Tyranids

other armies can be argued either way....since they have CC specialist but the entire army doesnt specialize in CC.

The title says best cc not best cc+shooting, its nids.

Railguns is right: 'Nids are not as awesome in CC as they used to be. Still respectable, but the rending nerf makes a huge difference.