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Hey, I'm building some squads of Plague Marines / Regular CSM possibly.

I made a Powerfist champion for each squad.

Is it worth even building a model w/ a power weapon for either of those squads? It seems because of tanks / dreads / other things, everyone equips any squad I4 or lower with a powerfist instead of a PW.

I play Tyranids.
Power fists and chain fists are amusing. Power weapons, on the other hand, can be intimidating.

shrug

In my opinion, Plague Marines are the perfect candidate for Power Fists. At a base of I3, they're already slow, so I1 isn't that much of a change.

And the most important question is "Will this chump live long enough to use that fist?" Of all the troops in the game, Plague Marines have the best chance of answering that "yes!"

groz wrote:In my opinion, Plague Marines are the perfect candidate for Power Fists. At a base of I3, they're already slow, so I1 isn't that much of a change.

And the most important question is "Will this chump live long enough to use that fist?" Of all the troops in the game, Plague Marines have the best chance of answering that "yes!"

Ah, yeah, I3. I definitely won't be building any plague marines with power weapon.

It's odd that blizz sells the 7man plague marine set with no powerfists in it, only a completely useless power weapon.

Fine for me because I just bought 7-man box of plagues + 10-man regular chaos, mix the parts together and get 17 plaguemarines (1 with a powerfist). Another 7 + 10 boxes and that's enough for 3 whole squads.

z0mg the double post

TheBloodGod wrote:It's odd that blizz sells the 7man plague marine set with no powerfists in it, only a completely useless power weapon.

(Bold emphasis is my own.) Do I detect a WOW player here? CSM are part of my ex-WOW recovery plan.

Also, your statement is QFT. The Emperor's Children set is even better--three special weapons and six plastic troop bodies.

groz wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:It's odd that blizz sells the 7man plague marine set with no powerfists in it, only a completely useless power weapon.

(Bold emphasis is my own.) Do I detect a WOW player here? CSM are part of my ex-WOW recovery plan.

Also, your statement is QFT. The Emperor's Children set is even better--three special weapons and six plastic troop bodies.

hahaha. Sorry. I guess I clump big evil greedy corporations together x.x

I don't feel there's much point in making a power weapon model. The power fist deals more wounds on average and is more effective against a wider range of targets. In all but a few cases it's the better weapon.

Power weapon only makes sense for Noise Marines or Icon of Slaanesh CSM. Otherwise the powerfist deals more expected wounds to everything T4 and higher.

On regular CSM, a power weapon here and there is definately not a bad idea, especially if you use a lot of powerfists elsewhere (Oblits, Plague Marines, Terminators). You still get the bonus attack for using two hand weapons unlike the fist.

- Blackbone

Looking at your army composition, you have to decide if a power weapon will provide a given squad better utitlity than a power fist.

Power weapons give you initiative, but will be completely useless against anything with an armor value or high toughness.

Power fists, while going last, will allow you to vap a wide range of models, will crack open everything but AV14, and even then will at least glance AV14.

As mentioned above, if you have an abundance of PF elsewhere, you may opt for the power weapon, but personally I hate being caught with my pants down. I much prefer that as many of my units pose a threat to as many of my opponent's units as possible.

I use power weapons on base stat I5 models and terminators. Otherwise everything gets a powerfist. Powerfists tend to make people think twice about wading into hand to hand with a big nasty, where power weapons aren't as much of a threat. I run powerfists mainly to ward off characters as most players don't like seeing their expensive bad ass vaped in the first round of combat.

I use power weapons on terminators because going first or simo works well for avoiding and inflicting casualties. All powerfists for terminators tend to overkill.

I'm considering Slaanesh Terminators with Twin-Lightning Claws. Seems that if I make them all champions, then they are all I5,A4, St4 reroll wound WS4 powerweapon attacks, 5 each on the charge.

Eh, in berserker squads I go either way. On the charge, berserkers are pretty great with a PW.

My Noise Marine ACs get power weapons. But they usually fail to wound MEQ.

I stopped taking power weapon aspiring champions when I realized that for the price of the champion upgrade and the power weapon, I could have another terminator.

I also stopped taking powerfists when I realized that the aspiring champion with a powerfist is the same cost as a terminator with a powerfist, which comes with a better gun, better armour, an invulnerable save, the same number of attacks, and the ability to deepstrike.

And that is, of course, just talking about UPGRADE costs, not counting the 15 points or whatever that the original model cost.

Spellbound wrote:I stopped taking power weapon aspiring champions when I realized that for the price of the champion upgrade and the power weapon, I could have another terminator.

Good point. But a NM AC with a doom siren is a decent buy.

Yes, definitely. The ability to kill 2/3 of all marines covered by the template is way better than 1 terminator.

Killing the odd guy in close combat, which a terminator could ALSO do, isn't.

Spellbound wrote:I stopped taking power weapon aspiring champions when I realized that for the price of the champion upgrade and the power weapon, I could have another terminator.

I also stopped taking powerfists when I realized that the aspiring champion with a powerfist is the same cost as a terminator with a powerfist, which comes with a better gun, better armour, an invulnerable save, the same number of attacks, and the ability to deepstrike.

And that is, of course, just talking about UPGRADE costs, not counting the 15 points or whatever that the original model cost.

I think you're ignoring the utility a PF gives a squad, at least in your posts so far. Do you leave terminators on your objectives in case an MC shows up or a Dread drop pods in? What do you do if/when your termies take enough wounds to limit their threat/effectiveness?

I'm not talking any gak, just curious how you handle these kinds of scenarios when you don't have any PFs in your troop squads.

I give my champs PF, but i give another model a power weapon, a power weapon (a sword) can be used as a normal close combat weapon, as can in most friendly games a PF.

ueberyak wrote:

I think you're ignoring the utility a PF gives a squad, at least in your posts so far. Do you leave terminators on your objectives in case an MC shows up or a Dread drop pods in? What do you do if/when your termies take enough wounds to limit their threat/effectiveness?

I'm not talking any gak, just curious how you handle these kinds of scenarios when you don't have any PFs in your troop squads.

No, I... actually....leave the tactical squads with the guns on the objectives, while my terminators go out and kill those things....

And the extra terminator bought from not upgrading the champion... kinda.... helps the squad stay viable.... that's kind of where I was going with all that....

Spellbound wrote:
No, I... actually....leave the tactical squads with the guns on the objectives, while my terminators go out and kill those things....

And the extra terminator bought from not upgrading the champion... kinda.... helps the squad stay viable.... that's kind of where I was going with all that....

I'm going to... use a lot of elipses dots like you... That way we'll both be... talking down to each other...

If you...send your terminators off into the fray...how do you...use them to kill...the Dreadnaughts drop podding in on your...objective...?

Sorry if...my attempts to...understand you...warrant more...dots...

yeah,
its my job to three dots on the end of sentences...

Panic...

Looks like someones internet is broken. )

The only reason to EVER give a Plague Champion a power weapon is to be cheap on points. I'm guilty of this, but I wish I gave my two PC Powerfists now. For 10 points more than a power weapon, you double his Strength. Besides, he will probably strike last anyway, so make that strike count. I say Powerfist and either a Combi-melta or Combi-bolter is the best way to tool up a Plague Champ. Death Guard are not close combat specialists, but throw in a Powerfists and most opponets will think twice about assaulting you, especially because of Blight Grenades. Defensively, DG are stellar troops, so sit back and fire off shots, and don't worry about making an assault. Let the enemy come to you. Plus, a Powerfist will let you bring down much tougher enemies than a power weapon will.

A power weapon is not really worth it.
I usually have bad luck with my AC wielding a power weapon. If he hits he doesn't wound. I simply drop it if I'm short on points.

I'd say a power-fist or no special weapon at all. Power weapons on taq marines just don't do enough damage to justify their cost.

Mekniakal wrote:I'd say a power-fist or no special weapon at all. Power weapons on taq marines just don't do enough damage to justify their cost.

Right. But power fists are too expensive for Tacticals.
Today, Tacticals have to be used with care as they are scoring, i.e., Tacticals are more used in the defensive and shooty role.

Which is why Power Fists are a "must have" for tacticals. If you have to hold an objective with troops then it is these very units which will be abused by enemy tanks, dreadnoughts, monsterous creatures etc. Without something that can effectively counter these beasties, your objective will always be in jeapordy.

Democratus wrote:Which is why Power Fists are a "must have" for tacticals. If you have to hold an objective with troops then it is these very units which will be abused by enemy tanks, dreadnoughts, monsterous creatures etc. Without something that can effectively counter these beasties, your objective will always be in jeapordy.

QFT.

Power weapons aren't going to do anything versus rampaging Monstrous Creatures, a tankshocking vehicle, a dreadnaught, a Nob Squad, a Mega Nob squad...

Tactical squads are either their for fire support, holding objectives deep in your back field or shooting others off them, or they need to be able to kick other units off the objective. There is nothing more embarrassing then a tactical squad getting wiped out by a single killer kan because he decided to go with power weapons.