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I got a lot PM's requesting that I post a tactica of how I use my marine army.

First of all here is the 1750 list that will probably be my GT 09 list but, understand that it needs a lot more playtesting.

HQ
Pedro Kantor 175

Elites
5 assult terminaters- thunder hammer storm shield 200
Land Raider Redeemer- extra armor 255

Troops
10 Tactical- power weapon flamer multi melta 185

10 Tactical- melta gun missile launcher 175
rhino 35

5 Tactical- combi melta 100
Razorback 40

Fast Attack
Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Heavy Support
Vindicater 115

Vindicater 115

Land Raider redeemer- extra armor

1750 on the nose.

In Pitched battle deployment I would put a piece of terrain where someone wouldn't psycologicaly put his army in such as a forest or a crater or even a rock pile. He may have no penalty what so ever from being in the piece of terrain but he wont put the bulk of his army there because it's not flat or hillish ground. Craters are especially good for this due to the fact that no one wants to go through the seemingly unessecary hastle of unbalanced models. Put said piece of terrain in the center of each deploymet zone and the corners of each deloyment zone. Who wants to walk through woods in the corner of the board? The enemy will place his army on either 1 of the 2 You want him to pick 1 section and attempt to refuse flank and from expierience that's people'ss first instinct (iknow that's what I would do with my nids. This effectively neuters his bonus of deploying secod and whatching how you deploy since you know where he's going to deploy aswell. You deploy Land raider and vindicater side by side with either the rhino or the razorback behind the 2 so no one can shoot the transport behind, You should hide 1 of the attack bikes behind this wall you've created. Do this semetrically both sections of the board you've created. Spearhead the enemy and use vindies to apply ranged pressure.

With me so far? Hope so because i'm moving on.

In a Spearhead battle you want to do the same thing but in a different pattern Place the crater or forest or rock pile (NOT A HILL, HILLS ATTRACT PEOPLE!) in the 4 corners of the board this will scare people into not deploying as farback as possible to buy time and turn the battle into a gunline masacre. After that there's not much you need to doa s far as terrain. As far as deployment goes pick a side and deploy in this order going in order right to left Vimdicater Land Raider Land Raider Vindiater with everything else behind he wall. Use the vindies to pop anything that tries to flank around the army. And attack with a spearhead of 2 land raiders head on.

Starting to get it, too bad, here's another 1 for ya.

Dawn Of War it took me a little while to come up with a strategy for this 1 and during playtest it cleaned house. Set up terrain just as you would in pitched battle. Because that is what it will come down to in the end. Deploy a combat squad of 5 marines and a misslie just so you wont have to walk on with a heavy weapon a waste a turn of fire and, leave the rest of your army to come on Turn 1. When you do get around to deploying your army deploy just as you would in pitched battle. And play almost identically.

How the army itself deploys?

Put the 10 man marine unit with a power weapon into 1 of the land raiders and the termie unit in the other. Combat squad the other 10 man unit into 5 marines with a missile and 5 marines with a melta gun. Put the melta half in the rhino. Leave the 5 marines in their razorback. Put Pedro (bet you didn't see this coming) in the rhino with the 5 marines. "Wait why is Pedro there and not with the termies or the tactical in the land raider?" It's simple it's because he wants to use that orbital bombardment of his. Take a pitched battle Move up the attack bikes, the 2 raiders and the vindicaters move the razorback or the tactical if you want but keep them close to the rhino. You're now 1 turn away from coiding with the enemy with 2 land raiders 5 termies 10 marines 2 vindies and to attack bikes and you have a rhino a razorback and 5 marines hiding in the backfield let me know if you find an opponent that targets the rhino. so what your turn 1 shooting is like well your land raiders should have went as fast as possible so they should pop smoke th vindies should have only moved 6" get them in range but not into combat or melta range. So your turn 1 fire power should look like 3 S10 AP2 pie plates that kill as much anti tank as possible.

You've now neutered someones long range or I often find myself bombing attack bikes anti tank. Point being killing 2 land raiders in 1 turn is hard as is add in the fact that your 3 anti tank unit down and it becomes nearly impossible. So I get in the enemy's face turn 2 what do I do now? The hard part. Kill him I do it very differently for different types of armies.

Against mech (not mech eldar/dark eldar I have no clue how my army does against them) I'm going to be drwing aa lot from my game with Kirka for specific examples. He had a very competitive sisters list with 3 exorcists 4 sister squads in rhinos a celestian squad and cannoness in immolater and a land raider with mystics inside. He castled up in a corner and tried to shoot me to bits. When His vehicles were all very close together making killing tanks easier for this list. Why? A vindicater shell can glance side armor of tanks even if it's half strength and it nearly auto pens f it hits something and it's more ikely to since they're bunched up. Take a land raider and ram a tank (make sure you do it an angle so that the termies can still unload.) when that happens flame multiple rhinos at once. (you coulod get lucky and blow one up). If not picture this 2 rhinos touching next to each other with an enemy land raider next to the side of 1 (this is what the other land raider is doing) the other land raider on the side of the other to make a sandwich now terminaters unload from 1 of the land raiders and charge the furthest one in the rear forcing them to engage the closer 1 from the rear aswell. With that many attacks especially since Pedro's trying to catch up with his little rhino that could. 20 attacks even hitting on 6's 3 hits 3's to pen 2 pens and maybe a glance 2 immobilized or destroyed rhinos osn't that had to accomplish. And if they're destroyed they have to emergency disembark from the front so they're all bunched up in front and PINNED. Yeah what now meta guns! next turn the redeemers redeeme themselves as the best land raider varients and the termies go exorcist hunting. But wait what about the other sister squads aren't they going to kill the redeemers but the odds of 2 meltaguns killing 2 redeemers are slim and even if it does happen then thunder hammer to the face from termies. I don't care if the redeemers die because if they die than you die to termies. I don't care if the termies die because than you die to redeemers.

Don't froget the vindies and attack bikes are exorcist hunting and that razorback and 5 man tac squad are olding OBJ"s I could care less if they never kill a thing.

Horde well once sisters are out of their rhinos thet're a horde so make 'em choose termies or redeemers. An ork horde is different because unlike an MEQ horde it doesn't have meltas so use the vindies to make holes in the army you'll almost never have a bad scatter if there's 180+ models on the table. And have the redeemers use POMS to drive 12" become next to immune to power klaws and redeeme themselves . (never gets old)! it actually is that simple and if he has nobs... orbital bombardment!

So what happens if he ppops a land raider first turn?

It happened twice in playtesting so I do know what i'm talking about get over it and footslog just keep putting pressure the new terms are as tough as land raiders and if it's the other land raider okay that was their to redeeme things (okay it does get old) and to be a scoring bunker for the tactical. Just keep driving forward. It's not easy knocking out a land raider especially after my first turn and I knock out your anti tank. He got 1 and now your list turns into can he blow up 1 land raider in 1 turn without anti tank? If he can I don't know what happens it hasn't happened yet. At that point my guess is that it probably wont matter because next turn you'll be in charge range anyway.

As far as winning the game if it's objective based it's simple use the rhino squad the razorback squad and the stay at home tactical to claim the OBJ's as said earlier the enemy wont even bother killing them. But be aware kill his maneuverability early on so he can't contest the OBJ's. If it's kill points well in some games you're going to have to table him in others you can win. Remeber despite the list giving up 14 KP's you're only givin up about 9 since everything else should be hanging around the back field taking pot-shots.

Hope this helped clarify how to run this army!

Looks cool so far.

Thanks the rest is coming up.

Looking forward to reading the rest. Gives me some ideas to consider for my Salamanders.

My list is based off salamanders besides pedro and the attack bikes. But I tried to be fluffy and competitive at once.

No disrepect intended but I am not playing an army similar to this list. I primarily play Blood Angels for the past five years. I have run codex SM, 13th company, Emperor's Children and Nurgle Marines but not anywhere near the frequency as BA. I also used to field Dark Angels prior to their new codex.

Keep it up with the tactics... Looks good.

G

Oh I was just making a quick comparison beween your latest all stars list and this one but, i'll edit that.

No problem. : ) I find it interesting you see them as comparable... cool.

G

Honestly I found them comparable because, they both have 2 land raiders that make a dash for the enemy and force the enemy to shoot them instead of the troops which leads to very subtle discrete masacre.

Have you tried the list with vulkan instead of pedro?
mastercrafted thunderhammers for your terminators and twin melta/flamer seems more effective in that list tbh

No but, as I was playing I was thinking that he might be a better choice. But the orbital bombardment is crucial for units in cover that vindicaters will struggle to kill.

Pedro>Vulkan

yermom wrote:Honestly I found them comparable because, they both have 2 land raiders that make a dash for the enemy and force the enemy to shoot them instead of the troops which leads to very subtle discrete masacre.

Okay now I understand.

: )

G

The list sounds quite scary (My marine spam list would likely get destroyed due to my difficulty against armor 14). You're going to have a very difficult time against eldar/dark eldar mechanized lists as well as any opposing marine army with a heavy land raider focus. Surprisingly enough a necron force with a heavy focus on heavy destroyers and monoliths will probably also give you a good run for your money as demolishers aren't the best way to bring down monoliths and if he's playing denied flank he can easily hide and entire army behind the giant green boxes (I've experienced this before, its never pretty).

None of the armies you listed are that prevalent anymore as 5e hurt all of them.

G

Mech DE is about as prevalent as it can possibly be. Its a tourney winner. And even with their reduced capacity people still bring those armies to the table, just not in the incredible frequency they once did.

I agree that dark eldar is deffinetly a tournament winner they just have to play differently than 4th ed. Mech eldar got toned down to a normal ie. not uber level but I believe that both lists are lists that could wreck me if I let them. But my list will EASILY make a mockery of even nob bikers if you let me.

How well do you think this army/tactics would do against a well built tau army or a mech eldar army. I've already accepted that dark eldar= Autoloss but, after that can anyone think of something that could give it trouble. I doubt necros because whats to stop my 2 land raiders from flaming everybody dead even if you do just teleport away to avoid combat I'll catch you.

Against a very firewarrior heavy army with 3 broadside teams of 3 and a couple of devilfishes in there for objective taking you may have some issues. Any army that can KO multiple vehicles semi reliably on the first turn could give you fits, keep in mind the land raider is really only frightening when it has the chance to do its thing amid the confusion caused by the demolishers. Without those demolishers it can only do so much.

Mech eldar will just scoot around and land hits on the vindis side armor. Not sure how much damage they could really do (no mech eldar lists in my area), but you would have a hard time hitting them back.

That's what i'm worried about. I feel that any fast mech army will run circle around me and take pot shots. The tau build I could probably beat if I go first though.

I don't know if a Tau army with 9 broadsides is a common sight... Are people still trying to make mech work or have Tau players gravitated towards gunlines nowadays? I think a gunline would be problematic for you but it isn't as likely considering how easily it can get rolled by other armies.

HQ
Pedro Kantor 175

Elites
5 assult terminaters- thunder hammer storm shield 200
Land Raider Redeemer- extra armor 255

Troops
10 Tactical- power weapon flamer multi melta 185

10 Tactical- melta gun missile launcher 175
rhino 35

5 Tactical- combi melta 100
Razorback 40

Fast Attack
Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Heavy Support
Vindicater 115

Vindicater 115

Land Raider redeemer- extra armor

The list looks quite competitive.
Not sure if you need Kantor?
What is missing is an analysis how to battle top tier lists.

+1 a bubble from the hq, stubborn & ofc orbital bombardement. Spend the extra 50 & get both rules, alot cheaper then calgur.

stubborn

Well, this combat tactics is questionable.
After playing two tourneys I found that the default combat tactics provides more tactical options.

wuestenfux wrote:

HQ
Pedro Kantor 175

Elites
5 assult terminaters- thunder hammer storm shield 200
Land Raider Redeemer- extra armor 255

Troops
10 Tactical- power weapon flamer multi melta 185

10 Tactical- melta gun missile launcher 175
rhino 35

5 Tactical- combi melta 100
Razorback 40

Fast Attack
Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Attack Bike- multi melta 50

Heavy Support
Vindicater 115

Vindicater 115

Land Raider redeemer- extra armor

The list looks quite competitive.
Not sure if you need Kantor?
What is missing is an analysis how to battle top tier lists.

Thatnks for the input that's a great idea I've alredy playtested agianst nob biker but, I have no clue how it will do against lash spam and 9 oblit with plauges since there's no chaos player who's that competitive in our area. But if I get the chance i'll test it out and right a few bat reps on it.

I could roll over a non mech tau army aswell if I go first

Turn 1 I move up and orbital bombardemnt a broadside unit oh did I insta-kill you and didn't even allow you a cover save then vindies do damage to the other 2 units and the 2 redeemers pop smoke and hope for the best but, even if you pop them your facing 5 termies and 10 marines 12" away from you...

Kantor is deffinetly better he is by far my favorite support HQ followed by Vulkan. Althhough I'd rather have combat tactics than stubborn.

I'd run one Redeemer and one Crusader pattern Land Raider. The Crusader is decent vs hordes.

Against top tier Chaos, the enemy will stay back and the Obliterators will try to stop the advance of the Landraider with the Termies inside (if you let the opponent know; I would keep him/her guessing).

My redeemers are WAY TOO GOOD for me to trade them for a cruader they have about the same anti horde ability but, the redeemer also has anti MEQ abilty and, it costs less!

I personally don't let my opponent know unless they ask (unless it's ard boyz then you better get good at guessing)

A Chaos army will first try to destroy your mobility and then to take on your Tacticals while shooting the Assault Termies. Simple tactics; I will field my Noise Marine army in the upcoming GT season.

But how effective are 9 las cannons at 2 AV 14 vehicles that popped smoke last turn. If they can't blow them up they're taking 20 thunder hammer hits to the face.

yermom wrote:But how effective are 9 las cannons at 2 AV 14 vehicles that popped smoke last turn. If they can't blow them up they're taking 20 thunder hammer hits to the face.

True, long range anti-tank is less effective in 5th ed. thanks to the new armor penetration table.
Some armies run only 6 Obliterators (like mine). Then it is even harder. But I run a 10 men Termie squad besides three NM units.
Anyway, the Chaos army will try to immobilize the Landraiders in order to avoid the Assault Termies.