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Now that IG Officers cannot be targeted individually in their Command squads (about time), I was wondering if any IG commanders have been toying around with Hidden Powerfists?

In 4ed, a Powerfist was almost always a deathwish for our officers considering that they would almost always die before getting a chance to swing. Now that they are hidden (albeit only by 4 guardsmen), a HSO (JO + HI) can usually live to take out a few bastards in melee.

I have been taking a JO+HI w/ a PF a couple times now to try it out and have had *some* success. Was wondering if more people have been trying this out?

Regardless its 5 T3 guys with a 5+ save. They just die to easy and fast to make it worth it. The powerfist is too expensive for my taste for what it is likely not to do. Plus the squad is still worth 2 kill points so I would rather them running away then engaging anything. Its what mortars are for. Just my 2 cents...

I dunno I think its really worth some considering. The following squad:

Infantry command squad: JO w/ powerfist + iron discipline: 70 pts. Its pretty cheap and would be used as follows; stays hidden 12 inches behind line squads and provides moral. If infantry squads are assaulted it counter charges. Its 25 points more then the standard moral squad and it might (??) be effective. I don't think it should be used on the regimental command squad because the standard bearer is too valuable to waist. At the same time it would have to be significantly effective (net + 25 points) vs assault armies since it would be complete waste vs shooting armies.

Rough riders are clearly the superior choice when compared for combat, but for 25 points you turn something that provides Ld into something potentially effective.

Guard Officers do not fight. They lead. Officer weapons are ornamental, nothing more.

BYE

H.B.M.C wrote:
Guard Officers do not fight. They lead. Officer weapons are ornamental, nothing more.

QFT

BYE

?

Obviously the main objective for Officers is to stay out of combat and provide leadership to the troops. There is no way any IG squad is going to be able to take out a healthy CC specialist squad in melee (or even good sized nilla marine squad).

However, with the increased number of Combat Squads and other 5 man squads, there are many situations where a squad of MEQ has been reduced to less than 5 members, this is the case where having a little CC punch can help. This usually happens on an objective and/or in terrain, where it can be hard to bring a good deal of firepower to bear on the target (MEQ w/ 3+ cover saves can be hard to take out with shooting, and RR get slaughtered charging into cover). Having the ability to get some powerfists swings in can make a difference.

Yes, 20 points is not a small investment, but you target non CC specialist squads that are below 5man strong, you can actually take them out.

This goes against my long held idea of IG officers in only giving them ID and a slap on the back. Still got to run some more games to see if it is worth it.

sgt.salt wrote:?

?

Sgt. Salt wrote:

BYE

?

HBMC ends his posts with BYE. There is no deeper meaning, sorry.

if they have, which i haven't seen any guard players since 5th came out (thinking about starting them for this reason) I'd applaud them for once fightin' good and proppa. after which i'd feel sorry for them because as many people know, 4 IG + 1 HSO/JO aren't gonna put up a good fight with or without the PF. Keep ya command squads where they belong... shooting with the rest of the flashlights of DOOM.

made me laugh a lil'
guard CC... hah.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Guard Officers do not fight. They lead. Officer weapons are ornamental, nothing more.

BYE

Have you actually play tested Guard Command Squads w/ powerfits in the 5th edition, or are you just using the anecdotal evidence that if Guard Command Squads didn't work in 4th they wont work in 5th. If you have play tested them could you elaborate on your results?

There's not much to test, I'm afraid. 5-7 T3 wounds with a 5+ save make for a pretty craptastic survival rate. Everyone knows that Guard fail in close combat, sillypants.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:There's not much too test, I'm afraid. 5-7 T3 wounds with a 5+ save make for a pretty craptastic survival rate. Everyone knows that Guard fail in close combat, sillypants.

You forgot the I3. 5 T3, I3 wounds with 5+ armor aren't going to live long enough to matter. If there's only 1-2 enemies left, just shoot them down.

Spend your 25 points buying 4 flamers for your Officer's buddies. It'll be much more generally effective.

Being new to guard i toyed with giving my officers all sorts of goodies, PFs, PW, Commissar advisors w/PFs, plasma guns, plasma pistols, refractor fields the works... Now before HBCM righteously smites me for heresy, it should be noted that they were used in a counterattack role to stop things like chaos termies and berserks assaulting my tanks/Basilisks. They FAILED miserably. In 4 games in precisely the same circustances their sole succes was a dead Obliterator, after a lot of effort and a few PM with much luck on my part. So now all they do is provide LD or get plasma when i meet alot of termies. (yeah i play mostly against Chaos)

BoxANT wrote:Now that IG Officers cannot be targeted individually in their Command squads (about time), I was wondering if any IG commanders have been toying around with Hidden Powerfists?

Why would you do that?

I take a couple Platoon squads with 4 Plasma Guns led by JO with Plasma Pistol. That's 10 Deep-Striking Plasma Shots for only 90 pts.

You will always earn back 90 pts worth of damage when they arrive.

Hell, I fried a TMC last weekend for 5 wounds over the weekend.

Pure WIN.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I take a couple Platoon squads with 4 Plasma Guns led by JO with Plasma Pistol. That's 10 Deep-Striking Plasma Shots for only 90 pts.

You will always earn back 90 pts worth of damage when they arrive.

10 shots? I don't think pistols shoot twice in 5th edition....too bad.

Somehow my brain got crossed up with 5 guys in the unit and plasma rapid-firing double-tap.

I should have writtten *8+1* shots...

Which, on the receiving end feels an awful lot like 10 shots.

I know some people have used PF officers even in 4th to extremely good effect. I was not amongst them. I've been thinking about this layout for 5th too but since a) I don't have a PF officer model and b) usually need the points elsewhere, haven't tested it out yet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Guard Officers do not fight. They lead.

And do your opponents usually respect that mantra? Because my officers fight quite often (they have powerswords), and not always on my own volition.

A powersword isn't a budget breaker by any standard and can help even the odds somewhat. A powerfist however...you'd need to judge the circumstances quite carefully I think. I won't reject the idea out of hand since there have been occasions where that extra S would have made a difference.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:There's not much to test, I'm afraid. 5-7 T3 wounds with a 5+ save make for a pretty craptastic survival rate. Everyone knows that Guard fail in close combat, sillypants.

The survival rate isn't much worse than against shooting. Yes, there's cover - and thank the Emperor for it - but only until someone drops a heavy flamer template. That combat squad of Tac marines on an objective near your lines for example is one of the targets that can be beaten by a JO + PF, 4 men w/ LP + CCW (by one point; I know there's plasma and battle cannon but there's also cover - that's a whopping 24 plasma or 90 laser shots needed to kill them all). The same goes for depleted Ork mobs.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Why would you do that?

Because it is new, and interesting to leave traditional paths once in a while? Or perhaps because he isn't certain of the effectiveness of this layout?

I take a couple Platoon squads with 4 Plasma Guns led by JO with Plasma Pistol. That's 10 Deep-Striking Plasma Shots for only 90 pts. You will always earn back 90 pts worth of damage when they arrive.

You mean platoon command squads, right? I don't think 'earning back points' is a valid concept. You could earn back 200 points and still lose 2 KP for 1. And some lists rely on the Ld bubble, so they cannot drop CS left, right and centre and lose them the turn after - because that is the usual outcome. Looking only at the survival rate people are so concerned about for a second, what difference does it make?

Hell, I fried a TMC last weekend for 5 wounds over the weekend.

Sure, if you come in at the right time in the right place and every hit wounds and there's no cover and...I don't think that's the norm.

If you DS the CS in a decent location, you won't give cover saves. Then you simply need to score 5 or 6 hits out of 9 rolls, which is around average. Wounding is the tough part, and for that, you need a bunch of 4s or 5s.

I had a couple Stormie squads who couldn't roll a Plasma wound to save their lives.

I give my Command squads a mortar And stick them behind the biggest thing I can find. I give the officer a PW because it's sooooo cheap. So i keep the leadership bubble, can still fire and stay safe, and may get a kill if they ever get charged. And a note on fighting, I was forced to HtH aganst Tau, Close order drill>vespids and fire warriors. I swear winning in combat with guard is the best feeling in the world.

well in the new codex i think that you can have 10 guard in a command