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Got a tournament coming up in a few weeks at Gorilla Con in Ypsilanti. 1500 points, "Ard Boyz" style.
http://gorillatactics.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=63

Haven't decided what I'm going to take, but here's an amusing Daemonhunters list I came up with:

HQ: Grand Master /w NFW & Storm Bolter
HQ: Brother-Captain Stern
E: Inquisitor /w incinerator, Emperor's Tarot; 2 mystics; 3 warriors /w flamers; Land Raider
T: Justicar, 4 Grey Knights, 2 incinerators
T: Justicar, 4 Grey Knights, 2 incinerators
HS: Land Raider Crusader
HS: Land Raider Crusader

Obviously, the GM and BC-Stern each join a Grey Knights squad. All the infantry stay holed up in their Land Raiders until the opposition is a bit thinned out, then get out and flame away. GK Land Raiders have old-style hurricane bolters, so moving 12", firing the hurricanes at one target, and multi-melta-ing another is fair game.

Would be amusing to play, if nothing else. Only problem is there's no psychic hood. :( I suppose I could go stelek-style and use =][= Stormtroopers for Troops, but the incinerators are quite nice and handy to have around.

Only problem is I don't have a GM who's modelled as I listed - my GM model has an incinerator.

Centurian99 wrote:Got a tournament coming up in a few weeks at Gorilla Con in Ypsilanti. 1500 points, "Ard Boyz" style.
http://gorillatactics.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=63

Haven't decided what I'm going to take, but here's an amusing Daemonhunters list I came up with:

HQ: Grand Master /w NFW & Storm Bolter
HQ: Brother-Captain Stern
E: Inquisitor /w incinerator, Emperor's Tarot; 2 mystics; 3 warriors /w flamers; Land Raider
T: Justicar, 4 Grey Knights, 2 incinerators
T: Justicar, 4 Grey Knights, 2 incinerators
HS: Land Raider Crusader
HS: Land Raider Crusader

Obviously, the GM and BC-Stern each join a Grey Knights squad. All the infantry stay holed up in their Land Raiders until the opposition is a bit thinned out, then get out and flame away. GK Land Raiders have old-style hurricane bolters, so moving 12", firing the hurricanes at one target, and multi-melta-ing another is fair game.

Would be amusing to play, if nothing else. Only problem is there's no psychic hood. :( I suppose I could go stelek-style and use =][= Stormtroopers for Troops, but the incinerators are quite nice and handy to have around.

Only problem is I don't have a GM who's modelled as I listed - my GM model has an incinerator.

3 Landraiders and 2 NEMESIS force weapons in 1500, dirty dirty.

...me likey.

Wow. This list packs quite the punch at 1500pts. I like it a lot.

Capt K

Well the problem is that there is only 2 troop choices. So holding objectives is out of the question. Also if you moving with the Landraiders you are not shooting. If you are only moving 6 inches at a time you can't get to the fight. If your units are running across the table they are going to die.

Force weapons only work on multi wound models. So Force Weapons are not that big of a deal. Vs Internal Warriors they are useless.

At 1500 points the vehicles are strong but the lack of troops in 5E makes this list suspect.

Flamers only work well vs 5+ and 4+ for the Inc. Vs 3+ armies they don't do much. You get one good round of flamer and then die.

The mystics are great anti deepstrikers but who are you going to drop that shot off to? Maybe the GK but they don't have any real long range fire. 6 Stormbolter shots are just not that scary.

This list would have problems with deep striking dreads. I'd deep strike so no other LR could get a shot on me and then multi-melta the one I'm near. Next turn the squad inside is going to die. I'd even think about taking out one with a troop choice. They have nothing to bust my armor and would die after I charged them.

I would ignore all of the above post.

Yea, basically.

@Mauleedlovesyakeface

It helps to know FAQ and the codex in question before you post....

I see you suffering from good long ranged shooty army's. Obliterators or broadsides for example are going to be a pain in the ass. I run a two LRC templar army, and those are the armies that toast me.

Deadshane1 wrote:Yea, basically.

@Mauleedlovesyakeface

It helps to know FAQ and the codex in question before you post....

Deadshane...

at least he tried to explain what he thought were weaknesses. He, unlinke you, didn't just say "you're stupid."

Why not explain where he went wrong? It would help him and others who may be making the same incorrect assumptions.

BTW...Love the list. Incinerators are sweet and, with the little i know of it, I think it'll do well in an ard boyz style environment.

ender502

ender502 wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Yea, basically.

@Mauleedlovesyakeface

It helps to know FAQ and the codex in question before you post....

Deadshane...

at least he tried to explain what he thought were weaknesses. He, unlinke you, didn't just say "you're stupid."

Why not explain where he went wrong? It would help him and others who may be making the same incorrect assumptions.

BTW...Love the list. Incinerators are sweet and, with the little i know of it, I think it'll do well in an ard boyz style environment.

ender502

I didnt just say "you're stupid"

What I said was that it's helpful to at least have an idea about the rules and FAQ you're talking about (apparently he doenst realise that Grey Knights get the decent Machine spirit and souped up Force weapons)...before giving advice.

and um, why dont you calm down? I wasnt THAT nasty.

Deadshane1 wrote:apparently he doenst realise that Grey Knights get the decent Machine spirit and souped up Force weapons

See, that's better.

Deadshane1 wrote:nd um, why dont you calm down? I wasnt THAT nasty.

I think it's your avatar...I want to punch it in the face. Not you, just your avatar. Unless you are Gary Busey...then i may want to take a swing at ya.

ender502

"...Grey Knights get the... souped up Force weapons)...before giving advice."

If you are talking about 'kills outright' it has not even been FAQ'd that it reduces a multi-wound model to zero wounds with one hit. Basically some people that really love DH believe this to be the case and yakface supported it with some Apoc rule. It's not going to fly everywhere. Just saying.

G

Says it kills outright, does not say it inflicts instant death. Will it fly everywhere? No, but then you're probably getting 3+ storm shield saves as well with Assault Cannons that are Heavy 4.

Bat swings both ways.

Green Blow Fly wrote:"...Grey Knights get the... souped up Force weapons)...before giving advice."

If you are talking about 'kills outright' it has not even been FAQ'd that it reduces a multi-wound model to zero wounds with one hit. Basically some people that really love DH believe this to be the case and yakface supported it with some Apoc rule. It's not going to fly everywhere. Just saying.

G

I know what you mean, those places where people like to ignore rules even when you throw the print directly into their faces will likely still disagree that this is the case.

codex>rulebook

Yeah, DH are a messed up codex. Force weapons that don't instakill, so they ignore eternal warrior. Hurrricane bolters that let you move 12" and fire. And the new machine spirit, so they can shoot a second weapon at a different target at BS4.

Massed obliterators is tough, I'll admit, but only if they get within 12". Otherwise, I'll take that duel. Broadsides...well, bad matchup.

i personally see this list working and kicking some butt. 1 landraider can be a pain to get rid off let alone 3. good luck with the list. and post something if you please when you playtested it.

thx

Wait what?

What do you guys mean about "souped up force weapon"?

Pdeflorio wrote:Wait what?

What do you guys mean about "souped up force weapon"?

With GW's declaration that you use the codex as written, Daemonhunters have force weapons that don't cause Instant Death. They simply kill a model regardless of remaining wounds. So Eternal Warrior doesn't defend against it.

Wow. That's bad ass...

Ya, I would hate to be against broadsides with this list.

However, against anybody else... At 1500 points, most armies have trouble dealing with ONE land raider, let alone 3.

This army would be fun to play with. Not quite as much fun as the 3 LR in 1000 points, but still quite fun

I'm waiting for the day that they let DH use those new FW redeemer variants Killing bloodletters on twos, me likey likey

Centurian99 wrote:

Pdeflorio wrote:Wait what?

What do you guys mean about "souped up force weapon"?

With GW's declaration that you use the codex as written, Daemonhunters have force weapons that don't cause Instant Death. They simply kill a model regardless of remaining wounds. So Eternal Warrior doesn't defend against it.

That is a rule interpretation from here at Dakka. It has not been FAQ'd. Personally I would call for a judge if someone tried to use this for their DH army. I don't mean to be argumentative or rude but this one comes across as very rule lawyering to be completely honest.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:
That is a rule interpretation from here at Dakka. It has not been FAQ'd. Personally I would call for a judge if someone tried to use this for their DH army. I don't mean to be argumentative or rude but this one comes across as very rule lawyering to be completely honest.

G

You're the only one here that thinks so.

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:

Pdeflorio wrote:Wait what?

What do you guys mean about "souped up force weapon"?

With GW's declaration that you use the codex as written, Daemonhunters have force weapons that don't cause Instant Death. They simply kill a model regardless of remaining wounds. So Eternal Warrior doesn't defend against it.

That is a rule interpretation from here at Dakka. It has not been FAQ'd. Personally I would call for a judge if someone tried to use this for their DH army. I don't mean to be argumentative or rude but this one comes across as very rule lawyering to be completely honest.

G

Good comes with bad. GK Assault Cannons are only Heavy 3, and don't rend.

That's how I was told to play it at the Baltimore GT by the GW Rules Judges. Not that they're paragons of rules knowledge, but they've got their stuff together.

I know that is certainly seems like the nemesis force weapon should insta-kill a greater daemon or daemon prince. Certainly Grey Knights have that image. If a judge called it that way in a tournament I would accept it, but ask for the reason behind that decision.

We shouldn't use RAW selectively so as to give some 'needy' armies a break.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:
We shouldn't use RAW selectively so as to give some 'needy' armies a break.

Nobody is using anything selectively. GW says codicies trump the rulebook. Well, there are alot of things that the Demonhunters codex says that trumps the rulebook. Force Weapons killing the model outright being one of them.

Kills outright is the same thing as insta-death.

G

Not really, instant death is well defined within the BRB. "Kills Outright" is... not.

Both reduce a model to zero wounds with a single attack.

Should this apply to armor as well?

G

GBF, that's a simplistic way of looking at it.

5th ed force weapons work by causing Instant Death, as defined in the main rulebook. Instant Death is not the same thing as simply removing a model as a casualty, even if the mechanics are the same. The DH Force weapon description clearly states that a force weapon simply removes a wounded model as a casualty on passing a psychic test, regardless of remaining wounds.

GW has specifically stated in the FAQs that you use your codex as written, without updating it to the current rules. That's why things like spore mines, Tau gun drones off of Devilfish, and other similar units are all worth a kill point. It's why the Dark Angels have different storm shields than other Space Marines.

Since GW doesn't want to bother updating codexes to match current 40K 5 standards, they've taken the simple approach: play the codex as written. Which causes a heck of a lot of problems, especially for Daemonhunters, which are a 40K 3 codex. In the Daemonhunter codex alone, you've got (and this is by no means an exhaustive list):

Force Weapons that remove models outright, not through the Instant Death mechanic.
Crusaders that are 255 points and come with hurricane bolters that can fire if the vehicle moves 12".
Storm Shields that only work in close combat, against a single enemy model.
Assault Cannons that are Heavy 3, and don't rend.
Smoke Launchers that make all hits glancing
Oodles of stuff that supposed to make like difficult for Daemons that don't work (Because Daemons are now fearless)
Heck, Daemons are defined in the Daemonhunter Codex itself...and the only things in the Chaos Daemons codex that count as Daemons (according to the DH codex) are Soul Grinders, Greater Daemons, and nurglings.

GW, in its infinite wisdom, has declared that we use the Codex as written. I'd love to have an updated DH codex. I'll gladly lose the "remove outright" force weapons if I can get 3+ inv. from storm shields, give regular land raiders multimeltas, and take drop pods. But if you're going to try and change one aspect of the codex to bring it in line with current rules, and leave the other aspects, that's unfair and cherry picking.

Well to me saying the term kills outright is not the same as instant death, to me that is a game of pure semantics. Honestly I don't remember the term 'kills outright' ever have been considered anything else than instant death until a day or so ago. If talks and walks like a duck there is a very good chance that it is an actual water fowl for all intensive purposes really.

G

GBF, the problem there is that I believe that Instant Death is used in the DH Codex...in relation to a piece of wargear (Bionics, I think...could be wrong. Visiting family out of town, so I don't have my DH codex with me). Can someone check that for me?

Even if it isn't, though, "Instant Death" is a defined game term, and is pretty much always used in that fashion (capitalized). Models with Eternal Warrior are immune to Instant Death, but not to other forms of casualty removal that ignore the number of wounds remaining (for example, deep strike mishaps, D weapons, SAG 12).

Nemesis Force Weapons and DH force weapons do not cause Instant Death. They simply cause a model to become a casualty regardless of remaining wounds.