How do Eldar cope with nob bikers?

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**yermom**

I've heard in many threads that eldar are the most versatil army and that they have a weapon or unit to cope with any enemy. What is their weapon or unit of choice against nob bikers.

My guess is S6 spam but I play nids and I know first hand how ineffective those are.

**whitedragon**

2x BIKE Seer Councils, Farseers with Mind War, and lots of Fire Dragons.

All they'll need is a little bit of energon, and a whole lotta luck.

**Moz**

Best bets are still always based around winning an assault. Eldar can accomplish this with the right setup.

Fortuned warlocks to tie up models and absorb wounds plus something hard hitting (like harlies, karandaras, wraithlord) to come in basing only one model. That should be enough to swing the wound count in your favor and break them.

Some people suggest mindwar against an LD7 painboy, which really relies on a contentious rules debate so I wouldn't count on that every game. But if you win that 4+, it's a good way to get rid of the FNP.

Lastly you can take a huge about of STR8 firepower with large firedragon squads. Sure you'll lose against anything else, but you'd have a chance of winning vs the bikenobs in shooting.

STR6 shooting is not the answer, if only because most of the STR6 platforms are much more vulnerable to the nobs than the nobs are to the Str6 shooting.

Transports are a very strong option though, and will help your late game tank shock gambits if you manage to knock some nobs out.

**DarthDiggler**

A big seer council might be able to tarpit the Nobs, but I'm not sure they would eventually survive. Wraithlords with swords might be able to make the Nobs ineffectual before the Wraithlords drop from combat as long as the Wraithlords get the charge into HtH.

Any shooting will have to wait until the Nobz have not turbo-boosted, maybe the turn after they consolidate out of a combat.

Any of these ways are not a sure thing and not as effective as what Marines or some other armies can bring to the table.

**DarthDiggler**

Moz has got it right. Eldar should concentrate on winning a round of HtH and chasing down the bikes rather that outright killing them in shooting or assault.

**yermom**

Thats a good idea Moz but, what do you think of 2 jetseer councils since the army is a highly mobile force wraithlords wont fit in and, harlies got nerfed hard in 5th.

**Danny Internets**

Tank shocking is probably the best option for Eldar if you're running at least a couple of Wave Serpents and don't have a Seer Council. Just move flat-out 24" over the unit and pray they fail a Ld9 check (Ld7 without a Warboss). Once they do, move something within 6" and keep them there until the unit runs off the table.

**hutchy_99**

Danny Internets wrote:Tank shocking is probably the best option for Eldar if you're running at least a couple of Wave Serpents and don't have a Seer Council. Just move flat-out 24" over the unit and pray they fail a Ld9 check (Ld7 without a Warboss). Once they do, move something within 6" and keep them there until the unit runs off the table.

the leadership depends on the boyz around them, 4 boyz=ld4 just shoot the crap at them until they need to take a test and hope they go running. this requires luck though...

**whitedragon**

yermom wrote:Thats a good idea Moz but, what do you think of 2 jetseer councils since the army is a highly mobile force wraithlords wont fit in and, harlies got nerfed hard in 5th.

With 2 max sized jetseer squads, you should try for 3x Fire Prisms or 3x Snakes on a Plane for your heavies. The rest of your list will then be guardian jetbikes or DA inna serpent.

Basically you're going to try to shoot down the bikers a bit with the Prisms or Snakes, then mindwar the painboy, then charge in and pray.

EDIT:

Wraithlord will get murdered by Nob Powerklaws.

**Moz**

Harlies have what it takes to put wounds on the unit. That's all you need when fortuned warlocks are holding down the majority of the swings. They didn't honestly get nerfed that hard, and the combat isn't that difficult to setup either.

Applying pressure with the shooting tactics whitedragon suggests will be good for forcing them to act, but just don't count on winning a game by shooting them off the table. Most of what can hurt them with shooting (save the prisms) is also extremely vulnerable to their counterattack. Making a favorable trade there is very difficult to pull off.

**whitedragon**

Moz,

You only gotta drop a few before you can Mind War them, I'm not implying trying to wipe them out from shooting. Your goal is to drop the Painboyz LD to 7 (depending on which way you debate the rules) so that he is easy prey for Mind War. The harlies are going to be difficult to hide from the Nobs dakkaguns and get a good charge, and if you have only 1 seer council (because you need points for harlies) then you could very easily be overwhelmed by two huge bike nob units.

It shouldn't be that difficult to keep falcons and Prisms flying around shooting at nobs until the seer council charges in. Hell you could even circle the council around the tanks to avoid them getting charged too.

Also remember that for the harlies to get alot of wounds, you need DOOM. Otherwise they will be wiped out.

**Razerous**

Eldar 4ed codex

...add the leadership of thier respective models.

This means it uses the models base stat. Which is 7. Which is awesome.

Um, fireprisms? str9 ap2. Cover save, woo. Most things get 4+ anyways. Vaps & no armour or FNP save.

Now add in your farseer bike concils & troops (hey hey snipers!) which makes a fairly comprehensive list which will be fairly good against this one trick pony.

**Gitzbitah**

The issue with Min Warring an Ork is that they all have a 'Mob Rule' special rule, which may or may not increase the leadership of each Ork to the number of Orks in the mob. If you are able to reduce the Nobs to below 7, then it becomes a moot point. If you do not, it may lead to a dice off or hard feelings either way. If you're planning on trying it, you should probably let your opponent know so that you can have the argument before it becomes a game winning dice toss.

**Razerous**

Aside from the specific wording, the powers ability to specifically pick one model out of a squad and its 'flavour' id say that it just uses its LD value listed under the models entry.

But yeah there is that arguement which isnt a given (I think its pretty clear but..) so thanks for the heads up.

**yermom**

I don't want this to become a rules dispute thread if you guys want to have a 20 page discussion about the LD of a warboss and his unit do it in YMDC not here. I don't mean to be mean but, I want to know about eldar killing nob bikers NOT nob bikers LD rules, hence the name "How do eldar cope with nob bikers"

**ShumaGorath**

Wouldn't a standard mech list kill the nob bikers list pretty handily? You can just scoot around 24" taking shots with pulsars and bright lances, killing a few each turn. Or just run them over with skimmers repeatedly. Theres not a lot they can do to a FA12 tank with big shootas and they should never be able to catch/damage one of the falcons in combat.

**Centurian99**

Nob bikers own Eldar. IF the eldar are moving fast enough to get away, they're not shooting. If they're shooting, they're probably going up against a 3+ cover save from turbo-boosting. And once the nobs charge, the sheer number of S9/10 attacks means that a handful will hit, even if they need 6 to hit. Striking against rear armor means dead skimmers.

Best bet Eldar have is two-fold. One, fire dragons are about the only unit with enough S8 shots to make a dent. The key is waiting until you don't have to get past the 3+ inv.

Hand to Hand, the key is winning and then breaking them with combat res. That pretty much means a fortuned unit of warlocks to soak attacks, in combination with another unit that inflicts S8 power weapon attacks to do the actual damage.

There's a reason why I'm shifting my Altansar army to include a warlock council and Wraithlords...

**Razerous**

Infiltrating snipers, horde o storm guardains to speed bump... le ork nobz can either miss these guys are turbo boost round to try and get at the prisms - which by the way, will eat nobz. 3 of em, even with that 3+, thats two many vaping hits on the squad. And as soon as that squads down to enough models to be hit by a single blast (4 models?) two prims can link up to vap the warboss (which, i assume is T5?).

The speed bumping guardains can also speed bump the nobz to allow the (atleast) one unit of cc goodness to catch up and join in, last atleast a turn or two, while the rest of my army annhilates your scoring potential. Yes those orks are scary and tough. If I tried to ram at 24'' with my undamaged prisms and be silly then it would be a walkover. No-one (sh) would

**Squig_herder**

Im the unorthodox eldar player, and i have to say a full battery of Vibro cannons, as 1. you can hide behind impassable terrain and stuff that block LOS and you can still hit the and stuff behind them 2. pinning, i dont think people would do this but i guess i would give it a try.

Wraithguard if you can afford them.

**Razerous**

If you could cause them to take dangerous terrian tests (which would be awesome, hence thunderfire cannons), would be nice. Vibro cannons, d6 str 4-6 hits. Not enough firepower. A prism will outrange & outmanouver that static artillery battery. Plus itll do alot more damage. Pinning is a def but w/ the warboss the ld is annoyingly high neways.

Pinning on ld 9 isnt a bad idea though.

**Orlanth**

Wraithguard are not aviable answer, their main advantages of their high T and powerful guns are both nergated. Orks will assault before the wraithguard shoot and big choppas will make short work of T6.

D-Cannon for the instant kill, nob bikers have a large footprint a D-Cannon battery should thin out the orks nicely.

Scattter laser War Walkers should do enough damage per points that the 4+ and FNP will not be able to keep up, especially if guided or doomed.

**Danny Internets**

hutchy_99 wrote:
the leadership depends on the boyz around them, 4 boyz=ld4 just shoot the crap at them until they need to take a test and hope they go running. this requires luck though...

That's not how Mob Rule works. They are Ld7 base, and most biker units don't exceed 7 or 8 models because it becomes retardedly overkill at that point.

**Black Blow Fly**

The problem with designing an eldar list to be nob bikers is will not be a balanced list.

G

**Black Blow Fly**

Danny Internets wrote:
hutchy_99 wrote:
the leadership depends on the boyz around them, 4 boyz=ld4 just shoot the crap at them until they need to take a test and hope they go running. this requires luck though...

That's not how Mob Rule works. They are Ld7 base, and most biker units don't exceed 7 or 8 models because it becomes retardedly overkill at that point.

Actually the typical list features two squads of ten.

G

**whitedragon**

Green Blow Fly wrote:The problem with designing an eldar list to be nob bikers is will not be a balanced list.

G

A 2x Jetseer council flanked by 3 prisms, fire dragons, and 2 units of DA's in a wave serpent are pretty hardy against everything.

**yermom**

Assuming the jetseer councils are maxed out that list is probably over the ard boyz points limit and only has 2 troop choices...

**DonkeyCannon**

I think a full unit of Dark Reapers would be able to take them down to a manageable size. Doom the Nobs, Guide the Dark Reapers. The exarch can ignore their cover save with crack shot. They will get a 5 plus invulnerable and a 4 plus feel no pain. I know it sucks but you can start taking them out from afar to the point where a Wraithlord might be able to finish them off when they hit your lines. Eldar are all about synergy. If it takes the combined efforts of every unit in your army to take them out for 2 turns then your doing alright. I've played against a Nob biker horde. No matter how quickly you kill them they are going to take some of your guys with them. A squad of 6 nob bikers with all the gear/painboy comes to around 400 points. Thats quite an investment. Unless they happen to pass their rerollable leadership you are going to have to work for the kill.

**yermom**

Dark Reapers are not the way to go for that 200+ point unit you did 1-2 wounds and they're static so will be charged next turn.

**Nurglitch**

Eldar Support Weapons look like they could be fun.

**sourclams**

Static anything will be charged and killed on turn 2.

Jetseers with Fire Dragon/Prism support or even Wraith Lords geared for cc.

Falcon spam with Fire Dragon/Prism support

A lack of close combat S8+ makes this kind of a tough deal for the Eldar.