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So I won this auction:

This auction is for Warhammer 40k Eldar. A $305 value, it includes:

HQ
-Asurman (Phoenix Lord)

Troops
-Dire Avengers x6; Exarch w/Diresword
-Dire Avengers x6; Exarch w/Power Weapon
-Dire Avengers x10; Exarch w/Diresword
-Wave Serpent (Converted from falcon)

Fast Attack
-Swooping Hawks x10 (unassembled);

Heavy Support

-Falcon x2

Swooping Hawks include a sunrifle and exarch head for conversion purposes.

Comes with pieces to assemble an additional 8 Dire Avengers (can be used with others to make six 5-man squads or three 10-man squads of Dire Avengers)
Not Responsible for models coming apart in the mail.



after I paid via paypal I wait a week and e-mail the guy that the box has not shown up yet, trying to see is he has a tracking number or what-not (we only live a couple hundred miles away) a day later I get a message that he has been busy and just shipped the package at noon that day (not a huge deal but very irritating none the less). Two days later the package arrives, I open it up to check the contents and I notice that its missing all of the swooping hawks. I then go through the DAs and notice that 25 of the 30 are just guardians with DA heads slapped on them. the 5 real ones are the only ones that you can see well in the picture he posted. So needless to say I am a bit pissed off.

The way I see it he owes me 25 Real DAs and 10 swooping hawks, and I will return his "knock-Off" guardian DAs.


So what would you do? I really doubt he will pony up the real merchandise, and I don't think that I should pay shipping and have to go through the hassle of packaging it up and mailing it all back. Anyone have any creative Ideas to solve this problem?

i feel your pain, i really do. But lets look at it from a legal way.

Does his DA look more like DA or Guardians. If it looks more DA then it does guardian, he might be off the hook ( as they say assembled mini often present
this issue when additional bits / options are involved.

Solution to that = buying something that had photos provided : /

swooping hawks = he need to take care of that.

The most realistic thing you can do is give him negative feed back describing what happend so other future buyer will know.

As to does he have to compensate the DA ... im sorry he doesnt have to.

if possible, could you include a link to the that listing? maybe we can catch something to get him with.

You can also file a grievance with ebay and paypal (if you used that). Check out their procedures to see what you can do.
If you paid with a credit card (hooked to paypal or somesuch) you may be able to dispute the charges. Though check with paypal first because if you file a dispute between your credit card and paypal, you may still get stuck because paypal is not the wrongdoer.
Best to start with ebay, then paypal.

Sadly, those Dire Avengers are probably legit - from the era of hybrid box sets.

GW produced a box with two guardian sprues (so 8 guardians) and 8 metal Dire Avenger heads (plus some useless tabards most people left off, and Diresword/Shuriken Pistol arms for the Exarch). For the same cost of 16 guardians. In fact a box of 16 guardains plus buying 16 metal heads through the old bits service was considerably cheaper than two boxes of Dire Avengers.

The combination of rather bad rules and overpriced uninspired models meant that this varient of dire avengers is rarely seen, but they are nonetheless legitimate, assuming the heads are metal.


The hawks on the other hand, he must send to you.

Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110329782810

The Fake DAs look like guardians with DA heads, they are missing DA bodies and guns.

as for the picture I always thought that that didn't matter and that anything listed in print was supposed to be included in the auction. (its real easy to doctor a photo these days.)

the DA comes with DA heads, tabard.

it doesnt have special DA body or special DA shuriken catauplt. ( unless my memory is wrong >< )

From the pic, they do look alot more DA then guardian, and for $90 i must say you have a good deal :x

as for auction pics . there is a HUGE difference between linking a pic to display what he is selling ( usually for unpainted , un assembled minis )

as for the photos REPRESENTING what he is offering, the pic have to be the correct one.

Well, you said he only lives a couple hundred miles away. You could personally return the things...

Hit him with a SNAD - Significantly Not as Described, and reverse payment. If he wants his minis back, he can pay you to ship them.

For more info, hit the eBay forums.

A lot of Sellers pull this kind of scams, so go get him!

Looking at the pic, as bad as the pic may be, those are 100% the old Dire Avengers. They're not 'fake'.

I'm sorry Clthomps but as he never advertised them as 'new' Dire Avengers, and presented a picture of them (small as it may be), I can't see him being misrepresentative (if that's the correct word) of what he was supplying.

The Swooping Hawks are another matter. That he simply hasn't sent you, so that you can do something about.

BYE

Paypal dispute, "Not As Described". Paypal won't require you to present any evidence, and will refund your money in a few weeks. And no matter what the seller says, they won't believe them.

Go Go Fake Seller Protection -.-

the seller didnt misinterpret anything ...

Guys you are encouraging that innocent seller to suffer for something he didnt do wrong just because we have the power to?

other then the swooping hawk case, the DA issue shouldnt be abused

Email him and tell him the Swooping Hawks didn't show up and if he does nothing then nail him with a Paypal Dispute. I have 6 swooping hawks that I would be willing to sell if you want more of them.

LunaHound wrote:
the seller didnt misinterpret anything ...

Guys you are encouraging that innocent seller to suffer for something he didnt do wrong just because we have the power to?

other then the swooping hawk case, the DA issue shouldnt be abused

What are you talking about? The consensus is that the DA are fine and that the seller owes him some Swooping Hawks. Try reading the rest of the thread next time?

I'd email the seller first and tell him that the Swooping hawks were missing. Odds are if he's as unorganized as a lot of sellers are, he simply forgot them. I'd always contact the seller before I start firing off negative feedback or paypal complaints.

As for the Dire Avengers, you got what you paid for, alas. They were DA models, you got what was pictured, and it'd be unfair to complain that he didn't include what you thought was in the lot. It's always useful if you have time to email the seller and ask questions about edition and condition before you bid.

"innocent"?

No, he shorted the buyer.

That isn't innocent, by any measure.

I think that what Lunahound is saying is that if he ships out the swooping hawks quickly, the OP shouldn't hold the DA mistake against him in giving feedback or filing a complaint. The innocent comment was not related to the errors, but rather that we do not know if these errors were mistakes or an intentional attempt to screw the OP.

As for what the OP should do about the hawks, if the seller does anything other than ship them ASAP, that's a complaint. Even if he does, I'd give at least neutral and possibly even negative feedback for the combination of slow shipping and and incomplete order. I think the sellers unprofessionalism is worrying, and while negative feedback could possibly be too much (if it was a pair of honest mistakes), a well worded comment with the negative is a good warning to future buyers that this guy isn't a solid seller.

Polonius wrote:I think that what Lunahound is saying is that if he ships out the swooping hawks quickly, the OP shouldn't hold the DA mistake against him in giving feedback or filing a complaint. The innocent comment was not related to the errors, but rather that we do not know if these errors were mistakes or an intentional attempt to screw the OP.

As for what the OP should do about the hawks, if the seller does anything other than ship them ASAP, that's a complaint. Even if he does, I'd give at least neutral and possibly even negative feedback for the combination of slow shipping and and incomplete order. I think the sellers unprofessionalism is worrying, and while negative feedback could possibly be too much (if it was a pair of honest mistakes), a well worded comment with the negative is a good warning to future buyers that this guy isn't a solid seller.

Thank you Polonius, im glad not everyone fell into the *mob mentality right away and burn me along lol.

What im saying is, the seller IS accountable for the hawks, and he need to take care of it ASAP.
but just because the seller is wrong on the missing hawk, that doesnt make the DA issue automatically against him.
THUS the DA shouldnt be abused as in trying to get the seller for DA too.

bigchris1313, i do read every post. maybe you dont.

Well he said he is sending the hawks along, who know if he really mailed them or not

Hopefully this time it will not take 2 weeks for them to show up. As for the DAs I guess I will let it go.


Thanks every one. I will let you know if the hawks show up.

If the DA models are legit (though old) models and are the models shown in the auction photos, the buyer has sent you what he offered and any misunderstanding is on your part.

Clearly he needs to supply the missing Swooping Hawks.

I agree with the guys who say don't go nuclear straight away. Contact the seller and tell him he forgot to include the Hawks.

Get him to promise to send them quickly or you will have to open a dispute with him.

get ahold of ebay they always try to help there customers.

Seems like there is some misunderstanding.
The OP stated that the ONLY DA that are correct are the ones clearly visible in the picture and that the rest are not.

I then go through the DAs and notice that 25 of the 30 are just guardians with DA heads slapped on them. the 5 real ones are the only ones that you can see well in the picture he posted.

JHDD has the right of it. SNAD him.

Eric

But as HBMC said, those are the old Dire Avenger models, sold by GW.

They used to be a hybrid kit.

The picture showed the old DA's and a few new DA's. He hasn't misrepresented anything.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:"innocent"?

No, he shorted the buyer.

That isn't innocent, by any measure.

It is if it was a mistake, rather than a deliberate attempt to rip off the buyer.

Contacting the seller is always the first step in these situations. The majority of the time, it will turn out to be an honest mistake.

Jumping straight to a dispute before actually discussing the problem with the seller is likely to simply make them less inclined to be helpful.


That's a principle that many customers (both online and in the 'real' world) seem to overlook these days... the vast majority of the time, being polite gets you a lot further than jumping up and down about a problem.

JohnHwangDD wrote:"innocent"?

No, he shorted the buyer.

That isn't innocent, by any measure.

I fit was an honest mistake is certainly would be innocent. shorting someone on purpose wouldn't be, but accidently shorting someone is definately an innocent mistake.. You've never made an honest mistake?

insaniak wrote:It is if it was a mistake, rather than a deliberate attempt to rip off the buyer.

Contacting the seller is always the first step in these situations. The majority of the time, it will turn out to be an honest mistake.

Jumping straight to a dispute before actually discussing the problem with the seller is likely to simply make them less inclined to be helpful.


That's a principle that many customers (both online and in the 'real' world) seem to overlook these days... the vast majority of the time, being polite gets you a lot further than jumping up and down about a problem.

Know what? You're right.
That's the p.o.v I take in real life, and it works wonders for me.

Maybe I've just becomed hardened to online trades and sales, considering the vast amount of people lying, cheating, stealing and misrepresenting things that I've been exposed to.
Maybe "Internet Eric" has become a little hardbitten in that area.

LOL I won't go so far as to say I'm WRONG... but I'll say you're definitely right.

Eric

FWIW, though... I don't find it a fair representation to place the retail value of CURRENT models in the auction, then use outdated ones.

DIRE AVENGERS

GW has done three editions of Dire Avengers.

Old metal Dire Avengers.

Old dire avenger kits consiting of guardian sprues and metal heads

Current plastic Dire Avengers.

Are the heads metal? If so they are likely the old dire Avenger set.
This set will include exarch pieces which will include a metal sword and metal pistol arm.
Also proper Dire Avengers have metal loin cloths, but again ther seller might not have liked them and never modelled them, but it is unclear from the picture.

Here is the best pic of the old Dire Avengers sold to you that I can get at short notice.




SWOOPING HAWKS

These were in the picture, if they were not in the delivery then the seller has likely just made a mistake. Piointy out his error (as opposed to accusing him of cheating you) and see if he posts you the Swooping Hawks. As this is his error the seller is liable for the extra postage.

I do not think you have been conned per se, and certasinly not over the Dire Avengers.