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Ok, the short version is that I'm fleshing out my IG army in preparation for the upcoming release of the new codex. Being who I am, the army contains alot of older models. I have a unit of ten IG beastmen painted up. It's about a 60-40 mix of the three existing 40k IG beastmen poses and conversions of older Marauder WFB Beastmen fitted with 40k weapons.

So what's the best "counts as" fit for this unit?

Yes, the most obvious would be to use the "Abhumans doctine" rules from White Dwarf a few years back. However I'm trying to avoid using doctrines of any sort as they are going to be dropped from the revised codex.

Right now, I'm thinking the best fit might be to use either the "Hardened vets" unit kitted out as a close combat unit or believe it or not the Ogryn squad. (Beastmen in the era of RT had two wounds after all)

And please don't bother saying things like "Imperial beastmen aren't in the fluff any more". Do you REALLY think a guy who has Squat and Space Slaan armies as well as uses Imperial Robots to stand in for Space Marine Drednaughts is going to listen to that?

Finally, before anyone asks what I'm talking about here are the only three IG beastmen poses that GW ever released.

TR

I think that Ogryns are the best fit, personally. Both beastmen and ogryns operate as assault troops. At least, that's what they do in my IG army!

As an aside, it's not clear to me what makes the guy on the left an IG Beastman instead of just, y'know, a regular old Beastman.

EDIT: "Hardened vets" indeed! Newfangled second edition fluff will be the ruin of this game!

Eh...what makes him an Imperial beastman is the fact that he's labled as such in both the early catalogs and in the old 40k compendium (aka the red book).
But yes, I get your point.

Ogryns are probably the best fit. But then you might have some conehead who complains that they are on the wrong sized bases...much as the occasion fool does when I trot out my old terminators.

TR

Here's a bit of a stretch (probably no more so than ogryns) but:

Rough Riders: Fast moving CC troops. Goat legs give you that 12" move....

Trench-Raider wrote:Ogryns are probably the best fit. But then you might have some conehead who complains that they are on the wrong sized bases...much as the occasion fool does when I trot out my old terminators.

Just reading about that makes me feel tired. And sad.

In fairness base sizes are a regulated part of design. Making them smaller is like modeling things to be smaller in general. It imparts advantages that are not intended. That said, outside of a tourney I likely wouldn't care unless the opponent was the win at any cost sort.



For making them fit I would simply use them as conscripts. They are much to small to be something with three wounds, and they don't fit anywhere within the command structure. Semi human meatshields are basically the best life has to offer them.

a 40mm based of 2 would work (for Ogryn)
it would also give them an almost 'swarmy' effect
other than that.. use the doctrine system

in non-competitive games, adapt the old stat line to the new system

Are you planning on doing the whole army as beastmen or just some 'special' units?

You could make them stormtroopers (of course you'll need a bit of weapon swapping there, so that might not be the best option)

hardened vets is another good if not obvious option..

Get some plastic gor/ungors and kit that army out full tilt beastmen..

Conscripts would be the most likely way that Beastmen would actually be fielded by Guard regiments that would utilize them. Essentially like a penal legion: chain 'em together and send at the enemy in a big group to do some damage before being cut-down.

I know previously in the fluff Beastmen actually had statistical advantages over standard humans, but it you're going to use them in the 'modern day' IG, I think you just ignore that old fluff and stick with the conscript concept.

That's my take.

Agreed, right now run them as Ogryn if they have ranged weaponry in their paws. If there's an issue, literally place (not glue mangetize whatever) them on the larger bases for the duration of the game. I wouldn't make any permanent changes until the new codex comes out and you can judge then.

You could make them HTH nasties by making them count as Rough Riders. Bung them on the right sized base (possibly raising them up slightly for LoS issues anal people might have!)

Fairly beastly unit right there. Plus the Rough Rider models are *crap*.

Thanks for the opinions, folks. The biggest problem with the conscript option (the most popular solution both here and on Warseer were I mirror posted this question to get a bigger pool of opinions) is that I only have 10 IG beastmen at the moment and no plans on buying or converting more. Ogryns may be the best way to go methinks. (aside from nal fools who gripe about the basing of course) The real decision will have to hold off until the new codex hits the stores of course.

Finally...

Plus the Rough Rider models are *crap*

You and I agree there, Doc. Although I generally feel that the Perry sculpted 2nd edition IG models are the best IG ranges out there as a whole , the "Attillan rough riders" look like crap and the Tallarn ones are not much better. About the only Rough Rider figures that are currently being produced that I actually like the look of are the Forge World Krieg models. However I'm not about to pay FW prices for ANYTHING, so that's out.
My favorite rough rider models have to be the original RT sculpts. Nice and simple without the "over the top" style of the Attilans. But they are pretty much impossible to find and are insanely expensive when you do come across them. Like a damned fool I traded off my squad of them a number of years ago. Story of my life...

TR

Just for fun, the IA6 Renegades and Heretics Servants of Slaughter traitor IG army list has rules for beastmen in it. So in a friendly game you could always try to whip out those rules in a regular IG army.

They are:

10-20 in a unit.
Base point cost same as a standard guardsman.
Guard stats with BS2, Ld6 & a 6+ save.
one model can be upgraded to a Packmaster that has 2 Attacks and a Ld of 7.
They all come with 2 CC weapons.
They have Furious Charge and 'Battle Lust' (which means they can regroup when under 50%).
Any model can upgrade one CC weapon to either a laspistol or lasgun.
Packmaster can upgrade one CC weapon to plasma pistol as well.

Conversion wise, getting clever with Ungor bits and Cadian Bodies (or even Catachan for a more feral look) can work well. My mate converted one up.

Assuming of course you don't mind the current models.

beasts can be a guard vareation

Kroot Carnivore Kindreds allied from the Kroot list. Kroot PDF.

The Beastman with the plasma pistol and the chainsword is one of my favorite RT minis.

jamunition wrote:beasts can be a guard vareation

Would that be a variation, or veterans?

Allied Kroot Mercenaries.

Or Rough Riders.

yeah, I'm also jumping on the RR or kroot merc wagon. although there are several eleite choices in the WH codex that could work well. (repenta, or those combat-servitor guys)