Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

and you have one turn to kill them before they assault you. what is the best way to defeat this unit BEFORE they can?

charge them with your 10 pariahs...

You have to hit them with lots of small arms fire. Bolters, lasguns, h.bolters, template weapons, etc. The best way to kill them is with rate of fire weapons.

Also, feed them a sacrifical squad if you have on available. Just park a cheap squad in front of them so taht they have to charge it, gives you another turn of shooting.

Reecius has it right.

Just dice the bastards to death with small arms fire.

What army do you play? Or is this just a hypothetical question?

A couple of plasma cannon blasts on target should take a fair number out since you will be hitting 7 of them with a direct hit. and they only save on a 3+ against that so you just killed 2+ per shot. 4 PC devs = 8 dead + you have your bolters from the rest of the squad still.

lash them twice backwards and laugh as they walk forward.

They deepstruck in front of me? If they are within 6" I will walk one unit up to 1" from them and walk the rest of the units within 12" away. Begin shooting.

If they are outside of 6", then everyone within 12" will move away. Begin shooting.


Level II
2 landraiders with 10 assault terminators inside drive up in front of you. What do you do.

Well, you have to try and keep the Land Raiders from getting to you. That's the trick with this question. If they make it, try following the original instructions after they rip through your first unit.

I'm Eldar..
So i'll use my speed and get the hell out of the way.
A similar thing happened to me before:
My boys fleeted/zoomed away and engaged his back army.. then his termies trudged around for a long time...
I tabled him and laughed "hahahaha"

just my $0.02

Strimen wrote:A couple of plasma cannon blasts on target should take a fair number out since you will be hitting 7 of them with a direct hit. and they only save on a 3+ against that so you just killed 2+ per shot. 4 PC devs = 8 dead + you have your bolters from the rest of the squad still.

you can still run after a DS. most likely the terminators will use this movement to spread out to avoid blasts and the like.

Level I:

The answer with my Lash list has already been posted: Lash them back and chuckle. Throw Vindi rounds or plasma cannon shots at them if I still feel the need.

With my Dark Eldar, I focus fire. I have enough Disintegrators and Dark Lance equivalents alone to easily cut the unit in half, and that's discounting the 50-75 S3 shots I could add in or the variable AP flame template weapons. Whatever's left gets swamped by a unit of wyches. Sure, I'd be dedicating most of my army to eliminating this unit, but eliminating a unit that is at least 20% of my opponent's force is worth it.

Level II:

My Lash list first try to put a sacrificial unit in the way, and otherwise move away as possible. I would then use Melta equipped Plague Marines and/or Obliterator Lascannon/Melta (depending on range) to attempt to pop the Land Raider. If the Landraider was popped, Lash the Termies back. If immobilized, let the sacrificial unit die and Lash back next turn. If no appreciable effect is obtained in shooting the Landraider...well, the dice gods hate me and I deserve my fate.

My Dark Eldar list is less worried than my Lash list. My normal list includes 22 Dark Lance equivalents. I'd move a sacrificial warrior unit armed with blasters & splinter cannon (my moble warriors) in a large arc preventing any disembarked Termies from performing an end-around move; If I get a good fleet rolle, I might even try to block the exits. Then, the other 20 DL equivalents light up the Land Raider. After this, proceed with plan versus the deep striking Termies as above.

Since I've got Daemons, I charge them with my squad of 8 bloodcrushers, who will statistically cripple the squad on the charge.

32 attacks, 21.3 hits, 17.8 wounds, 5.9 kills. 4 terminators survive to strike back, so they get 8 attacks, 4 hits, and 3 wounds.

Centurian99 wrote:Since I've got Daemons, I charge them with my squad of 8 bloodcrushers, who will statistically cripple the squad on the charge.

32 attacks, 21.3 hits, 17.8 wounds, 5.9 kills. 4 terminators survive to strike back, so they get 8 attacks, 4 hits, and 3 wounds.

I second that

Alternatively, if you are going heavy assault termies, Shrike is the man. Fleeting termies are stupid.

Infiltrating, fleeting termies are uber stupid.

For my CSM - A mix of oblitorator plasma cannons and lash, either way is possible.

For my Daemons - Blood crushers.

mob of thirty orks with power klaw nob and 3 big shootas.
ok shooting first 27 shots 9 hit 4.5 wound .75 die
9 big shoota 3 hit 2 wounds .33 die
so 1 dead from shooting
charge
124 attacks
62 hit
31 wound
5 dead
at int 1
nob wounds .41
8 attacks back
4 hits
3.33 dead orcs

terminators with 2 attacks hate huge units with crap loads of attacks

Lash is an ultimate answer to the Level I question.

3 Rhinos bracketing the Land Raider could stop Level II. One in front and one on either side. A 0" Ram will not likely clear the way and shooting can only happen after movement so the LR must either back out and loose much distance or stand still and try to shoot the rhino barriers for a chance at moving the next turn.

A 20 strong unit of sisters with a heavy flamer and regular flamer and one-shot flamer gets their free shot from the nearby inquisitor with two mystics. The use their AoF to Divinely Guide the shots. This should give about 4 ap=1 hits with just bolters and upwards of 8 more ap=1 hits from flamers. Then all the other regular small arms 2+ saves.

Then, in your shooting phase, do the same thing. If both AoF are successful, you should pretty much be able to handle the assault of whatever's left...with yet another AoF to give you invulnerable saves vs their hammers.

I'm not saying it will kill all 10....but I've done it to 7 getting out of a Land Raider and didn't get the free shots from mystics on that one.

a devastator squad with 4 plasma cannons and a combi-plasma gun

Lash them back and group them up, then drop 6 plasma cannons and a bunch of meltas on them. If ther are enough left to be threatening after that, use the second ash to push them again ifthey're still too close.

To summarize...nearly anything en-masse will do the trick, regardless of your army.

Shoot them with lightning! That's how I solve all my problems...

Seriously, what army do you play anyway?

Greets
Schepp himself

Ten assault terminators deepstriking in front of my army ready to assault next turn is sort of like a waiter bringing dessert out to the table. (one of those brownies with the hershey bar just melted on top with a scoop of vanilla ice cream comes to mind)

....its not a very good "attack". It obvious, unreliable (deep strike can shaft you), wasteful, and basically just wont work. Will you get into combat...maybe, probably yes if the enemy doesnt have enough firepower to beat thru your saves. Regardless however, you'll be spending the points for 10 terminators, but in most cases if you ARE able to charge after the DS you be charging with less than 5. (unless you get charged yourself in order to rob you of the charge bonus)

Tau:
Railgun the LandRaider. Plasma the Termies to Ashes, then Plasma the Ashes. Honestly I haven't played against Termies since 4th Ed., and the guy would only use Lightning Claw termies. He was scared to death of the Plasma Rifles.

Necrons:
I'm thinking a charge from whatever C'Tan would do the trick. I almost always field one for just such occassions, with a Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter and WarScythe to add a few more attacks. I get tired of buying regular Power Weapons when everyone and their brother can pick up an Invulnerable Save from ShieldMart.

If for some reason I didn't bring my C'Tan I guess I'd throw a unit of Scarabs at them and go about my business.

To make things more difficult:

I'd assume the land raider is popping smoke.

That the termie squad has a null rod in its midst or at least a psychic hood and nullzone. If you really want to torture the daemon and chaos players add in an allied GKGM with a daemonhammer and a grimoire. Those blood crushers will have a tough time with their weapon skill halved rounding down and someone with 4 attacks at str 8 swinging first =P Oh and everyone he hits wouldn't be able to swing until the end of the next assault phase, basically knocking them out of the fight for a round.

ubersnax wrote:Tau:
Railgun the LandRaider. Plasma the Termies to Ashes, then Plasma the Ashes. Honestly I haven't played against Termies since 4th Ed., and the guy would only use Lightning Claw termies. He was scared to death of the Plasma Rifles.

Necrons:
I'm thinking a charge from whatever C'Tan would do the trick. I almost always field one for just such occassions, with a Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter and WarScythe to add a few more attacks. I get tired of buying regular Power Weapons when everyone and their brother can pick up an Invulnerable Save from ShieldMart.

If for some reason I didn't bring my C'Tan I guess I'd throw a unit of Scarabs at them and go about my business.

You haven't played 5th, plasma gives them a 3+ save, its hard to have enough suits to make a dent in ten termies before they hit your lines, but a C'Tan or War Scythe would do the trick somewhat, you'd probably lose your lord if he was the only one, the c'tan might win...not sure i'd have to do the math. Are Scarabs immune to instant death? If not, they'll disappear very quickly vs str 8.

All in all, the assault terminators are only scary if they get into hand to hand and that's a very difficult thing for them to do after deep striking. Droping down next to the enemy is risky since it's fairly easy to deviate and land on the enemy (forcing a roll on the mishap table). So you got to leave yourself some distance when you drop down or take a fairly large gamble. But lets just say you have a teleport homer or something similar around that gets your terminators to about 3" away from an enemy unit. All the enemy has to do is walk 6" away from you and then roll a 4+ for their run roll and all of a sudden they are out of charge range. In the mean time, the rest of their army can start pouring fire into the terminators in an attempt to kill them. Now this gets harder the closer the terminators get to the initial unit, but it gets easier the farther away they end up and again deep strike is unreliable. Even if they drop right next to a unit, the player could simply sacrifice that unit (which is very unlikely to be as expensive as a 10 man terminator unit) and then move everything else away. So in the end, deep striking assault terminators are intimidating, but they are really not as dangerous as they might sound.

Well, with my necrons - shoot then charge with my pariahs when I bring them (and I often do), and charge with my wraiths (I almost always bring 2-3 squads of them) which will tie up the termies pretty much indefinitely while the attached destroyer lord wielding a warscythe slowly hacks through them. Or have nightbringer walk in.

With my daemons, one squad of flamers opens up, If they get a good run roll I'll still get about 20 hits with 3 templates, so they're likely to lose 3-4 from that. Then have fateweaver use a breath and bolt taking out another 1-2, then rush in with some bloodletters. 30 S5 powerweapon attacks will reduce what's left significantly enough, if it doesn't kill it outright, that I'll be pretty much able to shrug off the retaliatory strikes with my rerollable invulnerable saves.

As for the second option, uh, 1-2 groups of screamers flies up to meet the LR halfway, and eat it. Everything gets out. Now I have the opportunity to get there with flamers, letters, etc...

I guess it all depends on where they land If they're deepstriking, chances are you aren't going to have exactly what you need right at hand!

Since I play 'nids, I'd probably have to tie them up with a squad of gaunts, unless I could run everybody out of range (I don't have any guns in the list!). That would hurt though, since I'm going to be taking large squad of gaunts. I wonder what the math would be of 32 gaunts vs the terminators... on the charge they might do somewhat OK, right?

So in general it is not a good tactic to DS the 10 assault terminators in front of a smart opponent. The landraiders change the odds dramatically though.

Dark lances are actually not that great against AV12+...

0.67 to hit, 0.5 to glance, 0.167 to immobilize => 6%
0.67 to hit, 0.33 to penetrate, 0.33 to wreck/destroy => 7%

If your opponent pops his smoke launchers those odds are now cut in half, so less than 5% chance of stopping either landraider. If you are shooting all your lances at the landraiders the rest of the SM army will be run a clinic... I would take a whirlwind or two and rain down death from above.

G