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Taking RR & PR means you don't need ATS, and means a Broadside comes in at 117pts. That's getting right down to a very tempting price, especially in a Sa'cea detachmebt for the rerolls on each Broadside...

grouchoben wrote:
Taking RR & PR means you don't need ATS, and means a Broadside comes in at 117pts. That's getting right down to a very tempting price, especially in a Sa'cea detachmebt for the rerolls on each Broadside...

Tac on a velocity tracker for 2 points and you are 3+ to hit a lot of targets already too.

Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Not sure yet. If cover is available to the Broadside the sheild gen is wasted unless against ap-4 or an ignore cover ap -3 - so in a take all comers type list - more often than not the shield generator will be wasted. It does give you the freedom to leave cover though - so it's not completely wasted. 2 points for +1 to hit against fly is a steal though. Too bad it can't take 2 support systems :(.

MilkmanAl wrote:

I'd be interested in seeing that list.

Borkan Outrider
Coldstar - 3 fusions, DC - 158
2 Gun Drones - 24
2 Y'Vahras - ATS, EWO - 846 (assuming they get the new points costs for big suits, of course)
2x5 Gun Drones - 120
4 Shield Drones- 40
4 shield drones - 40

Tau Battalion x2
Coldstar - 4 fusions - 174
2 Gun Drones - 24
Fireblade - 42
3x5 Fire Warriors - 105
5 Pathfinders - 40

1998 total

That looks interesting. Do you think the ats is needed on y'varhas? I ran it early on but past couple months I have been doing to and stims and decent success. I still haven't run drones since codex I'll have to get back to them. Thanks though definitely be trying the list or similar.

ATS isn't necessary, I suppose, but it's really nice to be able to fry standard vehicles with impunity. You also slap normal TEQ down to their invuln, for whatever that's worth. What would you suggest as an alternative? A target lock? Stims, maybe? I ran them with stims in the index with a fair amount of success.

So I was daydreaming about the other day and came up with the following Coldstar loadout: HOBC, Supernova Launcher, CIB, ATS. I'd reckon this guy would be an absolute TERROR to heavy infantry and light vehicles (with 1 ML counter the Supernova Launcher basically becomes a Flamestorm Cannon on roids and you can overcharge the CIB for (almost) free) while the HOBC could be used to hose down MEQ/GEQ. Maybe switch out the CIB for a Plasma Rifle to better deal with 2+ saves (but just 1 damage and no overcharge mode hurts a lot). Something of a Dakkamander as a counterpart to the standard Fusionmander. Full kit is (I thought) 148 points with CIB. Thoughts?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Broadside has 2+ armor save so a SG provides less value. Personally I'd be inclined to take SMS+HRR and put a TL on them so you can move around and still shoot at full BS.

Pandabeer wrote:
So I was daydreaming about the other day and came up with the following Coldstar loadout: HOBC, Supernova Launcher, CIB, ATS. I'd reckon this guy would be an absolute TERROR to heavy infantry and light vehicles (with 1 ML counter the Supernova Launcher basically becomes a Flamestorm Cannon on roids and you can overcharge the CIB for (almost) free) while the HOBC could be used to hose down MEQ/GEQ. Maybe switch out the CIB for a Plasma Rifle to better deal with 2+ saves (but just 1 damage and no overcharge mode hurts a lot). Something of a Dakkamander as a counterpart to the standard Fusionmander. Full kit is (I thought) 148 points with CIB. Thoughts?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Broadside has 2+ armor save so a SG provides less value. Personally I'd be inclined to take SMS+HRR and put a TL on them so you can move around and still shoot at full BS.

I think they'd also be a good option for drone controllers if you have any sniper drones.

/brainfart, please delete

Pandabeer wrote:
So I was daydreaming about the other day and came up with the following Coldstar loadout: HOBC, Supernova Launcher, CIB, ATS. I'd reckon this guy would be an absolute TERROR to heavy infantry and light vehicles (with 1 ML counter the Supernova Launcher basically becomes a Flamestorm Cannon on roids and you can overcharge the CIB for (almost) free) while the HOBC could be used to hose down MEQ/GEQ. Maybe switch out the CIB for a Plasma Rifle to better deal with 2+ saves (but just 1 damage and no overcharge mode hurts a lot). Something of a Dakkamander as a counterpart to the standard Fusionmander. Full kit is (I thought) 148 points with CIB. Thoughts?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Broadside has 2+ armor save so a SG provides less value. Personally I'd be inclined to take SMS+HRR and put a TL on them so you can move around and still shoot at full BS.

Congrats your comander is illegal, no CIB on coldstars period.
Annoyingly we don't have acess to more Hight Output burstcannons as that would be an epic coldstar loadout for hoard clearence.

Pandabeer wrote:
So I was daydreaming about the other day and came up with the following Coldstar loadout: HOBC, Supernova Launcher, CIB, ATS. I'd reckon this guy would be an absolute TERROR to heavy infantry and light vehicles (with 1 ML counter the Supernova Launcher basically becomes a Flamestorm Cannon on roids and you can overcharge the CIB for (almost) free) while the HOBC could be used to hose down MEQ/GEQ. Maybe switch out the CIB for a Plasma Rifle to better deal with 2+ saves (but just 1 damage and no overcharge mode hurts a lot). Something of a Dakkamander as a counterpart to the standard Fusionmander. Full kit is (I thought) 148 points with CIB. Thoughts?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Broadside has 2+ armor save so a SG provides less value. Personally I'd be inclined to take SMS+HRR and put a TL on them so you can move around and still shoot at full BS.

The desired load out I wanted until I saw the restriction that coldstar cant take CIB was HOBC, 2xCIB, and supernova launcher. For some reason though the coldstar cant take CIB (literally has an asterisk at the beginning of the unit listings that says you can't take it). After that I modified my preferred loadout to HOBC, BC, Supernova, ATS.

So it gives you 12 str 5 ap-1 and d6 str 6 ap-3 d2 shots for 138 points. Very deadly unit for very little points.

Dal'yth doesn't work on the 1st turn if you go 2nd? Poor writing, might have been useful if worded differently.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
So I was daydreaming about the other day and came up with the following Coldstar loadout: HOBC, Supernova Launcher, CIB, ATS. I'd reckon this guy would be an absolute TERROR to heavy infantry and light vehicles (with 1 ML counter the Supernova Launcher basically becomes a Flamestorm Cannon on roids and you can overcharge the CIB for (almost) free) while the HOBC could be used to hose down MEQ/GEQ. Maybe switch out the CIB for a Plasma Rifle to better deal with 2+ saves (but just 1 damage and no overcharge mode hurts a lot). Something of a Dakkamander as a counterpart to the standard Fusionmander. Full kit is (I thought) 148 points with CIB. Thoughts?

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

Broadside has 2+ armor save so a SG provides less value. Personally I'd be inclined to take SMS+HRR and put a TL on them so you can move around and still shoot at full BS.

The desired load out I wanted until I saw the restriction that coldstar cant take CIB was HOBC, 2xCIB, and supernova launcher. For some reason though the coldstar cant take CIB (literally has an asterisk at the beginning of the unit listings that says you can't take it). After that I modified my preferred loadout to HOBC, BC, Supernova, ATS.

So it gives you 12 str 5 ap-1 and d6 str 6 ap-3 d2 shots for 138 points. Very deadly unit for very little points.

Barf. Hmm, guess I'll have to swap to another BC then. Or maybe I can put 2x CIB, Supernova and ATS on a Manta-striking XV85 Enforcer. Will have to think on it.

What is even the point of the enforcer compared to a stanrard XV8 aside from 1 extra wound? Seems like a redundant entry in the book. Just put it as an option armor like they did with the iridium.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
What is even the point of the enforcer compared to a stanrard XV8 aside from 1 extra wound? Seems like a redundant entry in the book. Just put it as an option armor like they did with the iridium.

The Enforcer is a different model from the Crisis suit Commander, so it gets it's own datasheet.

How does the shield drones work? Their 4+ invul seems rather pointless as I can hardly see any reason for targeting them, and I get that they can regain wounds on +5, but they can't do anything els.
Is that ability really that valuable as opposed to a drone that can fire a markerlight?

FunJohn wrote:
How does the shield drones work? Their 4+ invul seems rather pointless as I can hardly see any reason for targeting them, and I get that they can regain wounds on +5, but they can't do anything els.
Is that ability really that valuable as opposed to a drone that can fire a markerlight?

Well, if you prefer you can also tank that lascannon shot with your Broadside's face and see how it goes ;-).

 davou wrote:
Don't feel like the shield generator is worth it to try and soak some shooting on broadsides when the drones run out?

IMO the shield generator is a must-take on HRR Broadies. You simply can't rely on a cover bonus to save you: there is a bunch of weapons that can ignore it outright and AP -4 weapons (which are not that uncommon, see dark and bright lances) will still reliably punch through that save most of the time if you do get one. Not to mention that quite often the places with the cover bonuses (remember, a Broadie needs to be 50% obscured to even get one) are not the ones you want for LoS and board control. Meanwhile the shield drones do cost 20 points and are not infinite (or 100% reliable, you will get the odd 1 for the Look Out Broadie! roll), better than having them absorb the brunt of the fire power all the time is to have a guaranteed way to cut down the number of shots coming their way by half.

Remember that a Broadie has only 6 wounds, it's essentially a rather fragile light vehicle and can get insta-headshotted by an unlucky lascannon hit once it runs out of drones or the Look Out test fails.

However, from my own experience, a Broadside with shield generator, two shield drones and potentially a cover bonus (which you can't rely on, having good lines of sight is always more important than getting the cover bonus if you have to decide between the one or the other) is very hard to kill and makes for an extremely unexciting target for AT firepower as your opponent has to hit, has to wound (usually on 3+) and then faces a 50% chance of the shot simply getting evaporated by the shield generator, in turn followed by the shield drone's 5+ FnP. When the best thing you can expect from an entire Ravager's firepower shooting a broadside is a dead gun drone (and even that's a rather smallish chance thanks to all the chances to fail mentioned above) then they often won't even bother shooting at it much.
This is a great thing because staying on the table for multiple turns allows the Broadside to carry its weight and perform above what can normally be expected of it.

Velocity tracker is good, especially for the points, but also situational and not really much cheaper than the shield gen; and Sa'cea already makes a HRR Broadie rather accurate (and if you take even only one HRR Broadie you definitely want that cheap Sa'cea outrider etachement). Target lock is expensive and ideally the Broadside should be placed somewhere where it can get LoS to begin with, as being able to reposition is only that useful with 5" movement, it's also an effect that can be achieved with 4 markerlights in a pinch. A shield generator is basically guaranteed to be useful in any match-up and in the end increased survivability results in increased damage output as well as reliability as it won't go down easily in the first turn (or later when it is one of the last armoured assets on the table and gets targeted by all the remaining AT). And the ability to make those expensive, high power single/D3 shots simply go poof and vanish in a black hole is always worth it .

I like EWO for railsides. I generally like EWO on broadsides and riptides. I think I will not be leaving home without 2-3 EWO models. There are a lot of silly alpha strikes around and I want to be able to say my thing if they do appear.

That being said, I think missilesides just scream for ATS. It's an extremely important upgrade for them, otherwise it's just autocannons shooting.

By the way I finally got my book and... oh god are crisis suits expensive.... almost 300 pts for a dressed up unit of 3 crisis!!!

As for septs, although I loved Bor'kan at first, I think T'au sept will be a must. Not only because all the named characters are T'au, but also because the sept bonus is so great, especially when combined with the counterfire defense support system. Give your Heavy Burst Cannon T'au sept Riptide an ATS and a Counterfeit defense and suddenly your close combat based opponent doesn't really want to charge any of your units that the Riptide guards, lest they be obliterated in overwatch.

Finally, I think that I will change my plan from multiple 5-man strike teams to 2 units of 12 with Guardian Drones, cadre fireblade and darkstrider, as well as a couple of pulse accelerator drones and an etherial. I then get 36" pulse rifles, 4+/6++/6+++ save on my striker teams, triple shots at 18", +1 to wound from darkstrider. I can even go the extra mile and give the fireblade warlord and "Through unity, devastation" for tasty ap-1 shots.

My desired list:

Tau Brigade
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion
HQ - Cadre Fireblade: Sig: Puretide Engram
HQ - Cadre Fireblade

Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight

Elite - Riptide: HBC, SMS, ATS, TL
Elite - Ghostkeel: CIR, FB, TL, SG
Elite - Ghostkeel: CIR, FB, TL, SG

FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones

HS - 3 Sniper Drones
HS - 3 Sniper Drones
HS - 3 Sniper Drones

Sa'cea Vanguard
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion

Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman

Sa'cea Vanguard
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion

Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman

I feel like this could be a very competitive list.

3 Quadfusion Coldstars would 40" strike and then each have 4 shield drones manta strike down in front of them for protection the following turn.

14 CP - Riptide double Nova and Markerlight strike each turn, and maybe coordinated fire on turn 1

6 firesight marksman (with sa'cea reroll to hit) and 2 cadre fireblades for marker lights will be very reliable (and each strike squad has a ML as well).

Ghostkeels and Riptide will be mid objective grabbing and Strike Teams will hang back at starting objectives.

Sniper Drones are actually quite good right now. 9 of them will be hunting those important buffing characters that try and hide behind squads.

Only main negative I see is with so many small squads thats a lot of kill points....

notredameguy10 wrote:
My desired list:

Tau Brigade
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion
HQ - Cadre Fireblade: Sig: Puretide Engram
HQ - Cadre Fireblade

Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight
Troops: 5 Strike Team: 1 Markerlight

Elite - Riptide: HBC, SMS, ATS, TL
Elite - Ghostkeel: CIR, FB, TL, SG
Elite - Ghostkeel: CIR, FB, TL, SG

FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones
FA - 4 Shield Drones

HS - 3 Sniper Drones
HS - 3 Sniper Drones
HS - 3 Sniper Drones

Sa'cea Vanguard
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion

Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman

Sa'cea Vanguard
HQ - Coldstar: 4 fusion

Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman
Elite - Firesight Marksman

I feel like this could be a very competitive list.

3 Quadfusion Coldstars would 40" strike and then each have 4 shield drones manta strike down in front of them for protection the following turn.

14 CP - Riptide double Nova and Markerlight strike each turn, and maybe coordinated fire on turn 1

6 firesight marksman (with sa'cea reroll to hit) and 2 cadre fireblades for marker lights will be very reliable (and each strike squad has a ML as well).

Ghostkeels and Riptide will be mid objective grabbing and Strike Teams will hang back at starting objectives.

Sniper Drones are actually quite good right now. 9 of them will be hunting those important buffing characters that try and hide behind squads.

Only main negative I see is with so many small squads thats a lot of kill points....

This looks fun!

I agree about the downside, though. Kill points is such a stupid thing in this game lol

What's the chance of the y'vahra getting cheaper?

How much did the riptide drop (as HBC/IA)

Razerous wrote:
What's the chance of the y'vahra getting cheaper?

How much did the riptide drop (as HBC/IA)

Depends. If they don't FAQ y'vahra to not allow him in Bork'an, then he doesn't need to get cheaper as that is basically the best unit in the codex/forgeworld.

Razerous wrote:
What's the chance of the y'vahra getting cheaper?

How much did the riptide drop (as HBC/IA)

If anything the Y'vahra will be hit by the nerf hammer. Hard.

Drones have to pay for their equipment, right? As in, a shield drone is whatever a shield drone costs plus 8 points for the shield gen.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Drones have to pay for their equipment, right? As in, a shield drone is whatever a shield drone costs plus 8 points for the shield gen.

They have a rule called sheild gernerator - they don't actually have the equpitment. The rule also includes the 5+FNP.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Drones have to pay for their equipment, right? As in, a shield drone is whatever a shield drone costs plus 8 points for the shield gen.

They have a rule called sheild gernerator - they don't actually have the equpitment. The rule also includes the 5+FNP.

Cool. Is that the case for all drones?

The points list in the back says drones cost includes wargear same as most named characters.

FunJohn wrote:
How does the shield drones work? Their 4+ invul seems rather pointless as I can hardly see any reason for targeting them

A tactic I haven't seen suggested yet is running a squad of 6-10 of them and having them charge units that don't want to be tied up in combat. They're mobile, on average needing to be within 19" of a unit at the start of the turn to successfully charge them. How does a low-attack, high Strength/AP unit such as Terminators deal enough wounds to kill all of them within one or two turns? Or how about an elite shooting unit such as devastators? Around 100pts could tie up over 250pts or more by turn 2, and be a complete nightmare to deal with. Is there something I'm missing here? Maybe 5 shield drones and 5 gun drones would be more effective at harassing?

Also means you can't shoot said unit, and with the fall back rules its only worth while against serious shooting units, but it does seam one heck of a way to eat overwatch for fusion blade commanders or farsight if they go to puch out a second unit

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Razerous wrote:
What's the chance of the y'vahra getting cheaper?

How much did the riptide drop (as HBC/IA)

If anything the Y'vahra will be hit by the nerf hammer. Hard.

I think changing the damage of both weapons from 3 to d3 or 2 (EMP cannon thing is only 3 on nova charge IIRC, otherwise it's just 1) ought to do the trick. Wouldn't want to see it overnerfed, I thought it's as expensive as a Stormsurge pointswise?