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So I played in my first tournament (1500 point annihilation gametype) and ended up in the finals. It was a playoff system to set up our ladder for the year at our FLGS. It was too late to play the final game so it was rescheduled to this Thursday. Seeing as how I am still basically a new person, I thought I would post here and get some good advice on tactics to use. So I will post the two lists and lets discuss how you would win with EITHER list.

Tau (me):

HQ
-Shas'el : PR, FB, SG, HWMT, IA

Elites
- XV8 x3 : PR, MP, MT
- XV8 x3 : PR, BC, MT

Troops
- Firewarrior x8
- Devilfish : SMS, DP, MT, TA
- Firewarrior x8
- Devilfish : SMS, DP, MT, TA

Heavy Support
- XV88 TL : SMS, AdvSS, HWDC (2x Shield Drone)
- XV88 x2 : SMS, AdvSS
-Hammerhead : RG, BC, DP, MT
-Hammerhead : RG, BC, DP, MT

Orks (rough estimate based on what I saw):
Big Mek x2 (both with KFF)
Battlewagon x2
3 smaller transport-looking things (maybe deff-rollas?)
2-3 units of shootas and lootas
2 walker like models

So knowing that the gametype is annihilation, what things would you do in-game to ensure a victory? What things would you watch out for? What would be your target priority? Any tactical advice would be helpful.



On a side note: To get to this point, I layed waste to a horde-like SM army, a Nidzilla list, and a Deamon army with 3 soul grinders.

Deff-Rollas can only be on the Battlewagons.

Take out the vehicles first, second the walkers, third you know the rest

focusedfire wrote:Deff-Rollas can only be on the Battlewagons.

Take out the vehicles first, second the walkers, third you know the rest

What could the smaller open-topped vehicles possibly be?

Problem is that he can fix his vehicles with the Big Meks and the majority of his vehicles will also be getting the 4+ cover save from the KFF. So shooting at them might end up completely wasting my shooting phase. I was actually thinking about shooting at the walkers first for the free killpoints in the first round.

If you were the ork player, what would be your strategies going in?

The smaller open topped vehicles could very well be trukkz,and as an Ork player he will attempt to use those trukkz to get hiz Boyz into cc with you as quickly as he can...that's what I would do.

Pray that you target my Deff Dreads first. Of course they could be Killa Kans but your description and the army list suggests the former.

The smaller ones are probably Trukks with rams.

KFF only gives 5+ save and "obscures"(4+) the vehicle if within 6". Depends on who goes first seeing as the Meks start out outside of the vehicles snipe at the ones not within 6 inches and target the meks independently. As soon as the meks load up do your best to immobilze that vehicle to kill his advance.

Now as an Ork player I'd do everything in my power to keep the battle from going to the long edges and would look to use as much cover as possible until within assault range.

focusedfire wrote: Pray that you target my Deff Dreads first. Of course they could be Killa Kans but your description and the army list suggests the former.

K, guess that idea was a bad one. Is it because they are slower and shouldn't be too much of a threat for at least a couple turns?

focusedfire wrote:The smaller ones are probably Trukks with rams.

K, thanks.

focusedfire wrote:KFF only gives 5+ save and "obscures"(4+) the vehicle if within 6". Depends on who goes first seeing as the Meks start out outside of the vehicles snipe at the ones not within 6 inches and target the meks independently. As soon as the meks load up do your best to immobilze that vehicle to kill his advance.

The bolded part is the interesting part to me. Why is it that they can't start in the vehicles?

focusedfire wrote:

Now as an Ork player I'd do everything in my power to keep the battle from going to the long edges and would look to use as much cover as possible until within assault range.

I think he is mainly using shootas (stuff that you roll a D3 for number of shots, right?). Would his strategy still be to get me into close combat?

1) Yep, You got it.

2) No Problem, glad I could help.

3) Under their List entry there is no note of being able to take a transport or retinue. Unless there is a special Ork rule I don't know about they should start off on foot and load up 1st turn.

4)Yes, His troops are more survivable in Hth. Simply put, by assaulting he reduces your attack strength from Strength 5 AP5 to Strength 3 ap-. This doesn't mean he won't shoot if he gets the chance. Just that he's got a better chance of annihalating you in HtH.

It is possible to have the Mek start the game in a transport. Just take him, have him join a mob that took a Trukk or BW, and he can be in before the game starts, assuming he fits

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:It is possible to have the Mek start the game in a transport. Just take him, have him join a mob that took a Trukk or BW, and he can be in before the game starts, assuming he fits

K, now I am confused. Can they or can't they start in the BW/Trukk? Cuz if he's on the outside and I get first turn, I might just Instakill him with my Railguns...

He can, but he has to follow the conditions I posted above. If he's on foot, he will likely be with a mob on foot too. If he is on foot with no mob, give him a Railgun shot to the face, it'll make the battle so much easier.

Well when I play orks I work a simple strategy: shoot wot's fighty en fight wot's shooty!WAAAAAGH!,so I'd say stay back a bit try and take out as many of them before they reach you,and try and take out the meks first as if they are in a vechile with the KFF,they make it more durable so if they're not in a trukk try to get em' first.Oh and most importantly show up drunk out of your mind this usally mess with your opponent as it is very hard to move a trukk that has now become a vomit cup!

Is your question whether to use a Tau army rather than an Ork army, or how to use a Tau army against Orks?

The Ork player should take Mad Dok Grotsnik with 30 Cybork Boyz (11 points a model). The Tau can't field Str 8 templates which makes instant killing the Cybork Boyz 5+ Inv and 4+ Feel No Pain exceedingly difficult. The Ork player just needs to place Grotsnik's unit aggressively to cover their advance and the Tau will be hard pressed to ignore the unit. Plus, Grotsnik's unit has the advantage that its saves can't be reduced by Tau Markerlights unlike KFFs.

Don't know if that's much help to a Tau player but that's my suggestion.

If I was in charge of those orks it'd all revolve around deployment, and I'd try to press you on one flank. It's all about delivering the boys into the charge.

If he has two big meks then he can take a deff dread as a troops choice, so potentially he can field up to 6 dread's in that list. But he probably hasn't. I know tau are good at shooting, but orks are good at absorbing damage!

try to take out the battlewagons from their side or rear armour, but be careful that the boys dont jump out and krump you.

Hope you have fun too!!

If I was the Ork player, I would use the lootas to kill your Crisis suits and drive the battlewagons head-on into your army. The orks in at least one battlewagon are almost guaranteed a second-turn charge. The deff rollas are very good at tearing apart vehicles (even if he agrees that your skimmer can make a skimmer dodge against them).

If I was the Tau player, I would keep the Broadsides on the flanks to get shots on the side armor of the wagons. Use empty devilfish to block the Ork vehicles if necessary. Drop sub-munition rounds on the lootas if he deploys them in a tight formation. Without transport, the orks should be slow enough to shoot them up well.

Kilkrazy wrote:Is your question whether to use a Tau army rather than an Ork army, or how to use a Tau army against Orks?

Sorry, guess I wasn't that clear. I am playing as Tau and I am coming up against an Ork player in the finals. I know next to nothing about how I should handle Orks as a Tau player and I also know nothing about general Ork tactics. So I would like an idea of the target priority when facing Orks. I like to know the tactics of the opposing army (to think a couple turns ahead) so I also asked how people would play against my Tau with the Ork list I posted.

Greetings!

I play Tau, my wife plays Ork, and you can imagine that we run into Tau vs. Ork games often enough.

You've got a few good things and a few bad things going for you, and a couple of things that can be good or bad, depending on how deployment goes. So....here's my advice, both general and specific:

1. An Ork vs. Tau game generally consists of the Tau shooting the Orks and hoping to kill them before the orks get into assault range. Also generally speaking, it won't work; tactics are required, and one of the most requisite (and unfortunate tactics) is called "Feeding the orks" where you sacrifice units of Tau to keep the rest of your army alive.

2. Deployment: If its Dawn of War, go first and deploy your two devilfish and your commander 24" on, so that he has to use the very, VERY back table edge for his deployment zone. During the first couple of turns, you'll be able to move backwards and away to stay out of range.

3. Mobility: You have mobility - your ability to win the game is going to rely on your ability to move and stay away from his junk. Sounds like he's got three trukks and 2 battlewagons. Your PRIMARY goal in this game is to destroy his mobility. Get side armour shots on those battlewagons. If they *are* trukks, pop them. 10 armour all the way around, you auto-penetrate with a railgun; and since Railguns are AP1 and the trukks are open-topped, you get to add +2 to whatever you roll on the penetration chart.

4. Its too bad that your Broadside team leader doesn't have a target lock; consider it for the future so that your broadside teams can pick multiple targets. Trukks can move 18" (or 19" if he has red paint) but cannot deploy troops that turn. They can also move 12-13", the same as the battlewagon and deploy troops out that turn, who can also assault. Pop the trucks first if they're easy targets to get to; they explode easily.

5. You only have two troop choices. If its an objective based game, you *must* keep them alive. Keep them back and out of the way. Orks can outshoot a Tau gunline if they play it right.

6. Once your Broadsides pop a trukk or battlewagon or two, plop two sub-munition rounds from your hammerheads RIGHT ON TOP of the troops inside. Orks have mob-rule, which means that their leadership = the number of models they have in the unit; making them fearless if they have 11+. However, their base leadership (7) is as crap as yours is. Template them down where you can, and if you have to, have your devilfish positioned to poop out your warriors, who can then rapid-fire into the ork ranks - use that wisely though - you need to decimate the Orks you do this to. If you're in rapid fire range, you're also in assault range if you don't finish them off.

7. Use your suits as bait. Your suits can pop a trukk as well as a railrifle can - your missiles needs 4s to penetrate, your plasma needs 5s to penetrate, and with 2 suit teams of 3 each, shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. Again...get those orks out on foot. If you *can* then you pretty much win. Your army is mobile, and if you get him out of his vehicles, you're going to run around the board dropping templates on his orks and using your vehicles and suits to lay waste to them.

8 Lootas: They count as heavy weapons, are Str7 Ap4 and have 48" range, which is across the whole table, long edge to long edge. Keep your broadsides in cover (2" or less) so that you get but don't give cover saves. If deployment works out that he deploys first, pick a corner and deploy away from his stuff. If he deploys across the board, pick a side, stick everything there, and concentrate on wiping out a flank.

That's about all I can offer you - the game will depend on who goes first, how you deploy, what the terrain looks like, and as always...dice rolls.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:It is possible to have the Mek start the game in a transport. Just take him, have him join a mob that took a Trukk or BW, and he can be in before the game starts, assuming he fits

Can you explain exactly what rule allows him to join up before the game starts. There is nothing in his list entry that states such and am unable to find any rule which allows a Big Mek to start the game with a retinue.

@OP Dash has the gist of it. The only thing I might disagree with is the target lock on the broadsides only because with cover saves you need on average 2 penatrating shots to do the job.
Use your mobility, make the game go to the long edges and you'll be in the best situation that you can have. I'd also like to point out that broadsides can make great bait.

Happy hunting

focusedfire wrote:Can you explain exactly what rule allows him to join up before the game starts. There is nothing in his list entry that states such and am unable to find any rule which allows a Big Mek to start the game with a retinue.

He's an IC. I meant he can join a unit before the game starts, during deployment. Sorry I left that little deployment detail out

@DOP
Thanks a ton. ALL of that was great information and will definitely be useful in my game this Thursday. It will be a little easier to get rid of those transports now that I know most of my weapons can penetrate their armor. Its gonna be all about getting rid of his ability to maneuver and staying one step ahead of him. Here's to hoping I can pull this off because everyone told me that the Tau were the least-playable army out there (the reason I picked them) and I would love to win first place in my first tourney with them. Again, thanks for the help.

@Nofasse
So the Mek can't start the game in the BW/Trukk? So, if I get first turn, he's out of the vehicle, AND I have a shot at him, should I risk shooting my RGs at him?

why shas'el why not shas'o? your one of the only lists i have seen a shas'el in.

thedarkside69 wrote:why shas'el why not shas'o? your one of the only lists i have seen a shas'el in.

Points. I am right at 1496 and NEED the upgrades I have on my vehicles. Shas'o are nice, but it is good to note that you can get a Shas'el + TA for less points (and same BS) than a Shas'o. And the extra wound isn't that amazing considering they generally get shot by Insta-kill weapons anyways.

focusedfire wrote:
Can you explain exactly what rule allows him to join up before the game starts. There is nothing in his list entry that states such and am unable to find any rule which allows a Big Mek to start the game with a retinue.

the second bullet point on page 48 of the BRB allows the character to begin the game with the unit. So the big mek will most likely not be sitting out in the open on the first turn, or any turn, if he knows what's good for him.

Fett- I like your style and how quickly you grasp the ideas behind tactics.

I, also, got into Tau wheneveryone told me they weren't very good(1st Tau codex) because I wanted the challenge. Whether the statements were true or not I've definitely enjoyed the army and have usually done pretty well with them.

Once again, Happy Hunting

airmang wrote:

focusedfire wrote:
Can you explain exactly what rule allows him to join up before the game starts. There is nothing in his list entry that states such and am unable to find any rule which allows a Big Mek to start the game with a retinue.

the second bullet point on page 48 of the BRB allows the character to begin the game with the unit. So the big mek will most likely not be sitting out in the open on the first turn, or any turn, if he knows what's good for him.

Thanks airmang , I missed that change in the new ruleset. That makes a really big difference as to how I deploy the ethereal with the broadsides.

As a fellow Tau player i suggest dropping the XV88s against orks. This is because if the orc player has 1/2 a brain he will set them as a priority target and kill them turn 2.
Ork trucks move 18" 1st turn, then 12" turn 2, deploy boys, WAAAGH (if necessary) then assault the BASS suits.

As a suggestion i would drop the BASS team and pick up a 3rd Railhead, and Put Flash Discharges on your tanks. As the primary form orks have of killing out skimmers is assaulting them, it makes them think twice about it.

BASS aren't really necessary against Orks due to the low AV on their vehaciles, str 5-7 Weapons can take care of ork trucks and wagons.

Kill Order is:
1. Whatever vehicle has the nob squad in it.
2. The trucks (while they have orks in them)
3.The battlewagons

Read the original post. This is a postponed tournament game. The armies are fixed and he's made it to the finals. He's looking for tactics not army lists.

Railgun the vehicles. All of them. The Trukks, Battlewagons and walkers. This is TOP priority.

Submunition the Boyz. If possible, kill the Big Mek. It'll make things way easier, as the Boyz won't get any saves from your Submunition that way. Killing those Lootas is also VERY important.

Line up your Fire Warriors so that you can concentrate on one squad of Boyz at a time. You don't have many, so you'll need to concentrate shots. That, or keep them inside the Devilfish, and have the 'Fish concentrate their Burst Cannons.

Your Broadsides have 2+ armour saves, and with those drones, you have two 4+ invulnerable saves. Against boyz in a truck, (12 tops - probably Nob+11) you can probably live through a round of close combat. You'll even probably win close combat.

Use them as bait if you see fit; but *do* try to keep them in cover so that you strike before his orks. Orks have 6+ armour saves; you're going to need 4s to hit, 3s to wound in close combat, but if you *do* get wounds, the orks pretty much fold over and die.

If see any Ork units with less than 8-9 orks in them, their leadership is only 7 - tank shock them if you can; might just get them to run off the board.

And again, I have to stress - try popping a trukk or battlewagon with your broadsides, then follow up kill with a broadside submunition on the now deployed orks.

Dashofpepper wrote:then follow up kill with a broadside submunition on the now deployed orks.

Broadsides can't use the submunition, only Hammerheads.