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Arbites are still one of the most popular of the orphaned armies. They had rules in 2nd edition and a weak army list in Citidel Journal in 3rd but still they have their supporters and I`m one of them.

So here are some ideas for the Arbs... my concept is they would be an allied army for IG and Inquisition, would have to take a Judge as an HQ and he would unlock 0-2 troops and 0-1 heavy, elite and fast attack.

For now I`ll just do the basic Arbiter squad and worry about the varients later.

Adeptus Arbites
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+

Shotguns with hunter ammo (S4, 18" ignores cover)
Up to 2 may take heavy stubbers for 10 points (Heavy 3, 36", S4, AP6 or Assault 3, 18") or grenade launchers with krak and gas grenades for 10 points (S3, small blast, poison always wound on 4+)
Swap shotguns for bolters 1 point
Swap shotguns for riot shields and shock mauls 1 point (3+ armor save, always wound on 4+)
Vet Sgt for 10 points (+1 attack, +1 ld, access to power weapons other wargear)
Rhino with usual options for 30 points
Chimera with usual options for whatever they cost in the new IG book
5-10 per unit at 9 points each

They`re cheaper than Storm Troops since they lack plasma, melta and flamer options. The shields and shock maul options make them a fairly solid defensive melee unit but not over powered. The seeker ammo could be S3, I wouldn`t opject. I`d rather leave it out but it`s one of their signiture weapons.

Other units would look something like this:

HQ
Judge (with an Inquisitor type retinue)

Elite
Arbites with plasma and melta
Infiltrating sniper teams
Psy-Judge
Callidus-like undercover detective (bolt pistol and power weapon)

Troops
Penal Legion
Local police

Fast Attack
Land speeders
Bikes
Sentinels

Heavy
Heavy weapon teams

The fast attack section would be rather dull, just retooled IG and Marine units. The Heavy section would be light, I really can`t think of much to put there, Leman Russ Exterminator?

Thoughts?

Why are Arbites so superior to Imperial Guard?

For the same reason that an american swat team is so much better than a squad of russian conscripts. You are comparing apples to oranges. The better question would be why are they so much better than Storm troopers.

IMO, Arbites are handled just fine in C:WH. You call the Inquisitor Lord a Judge and take Shotgun Storms as Arbites.

The 2E / Necro Arbites are simply OTT in the current 40k environment in the same what that RT-era Grey Knights would be way OTT.

@ Foil : I could understand Arbites being better than Imperial Guard conscripts, but not regular Guard. American SWAT teams are typically highly trained, and quite often, are lead and/or trained by prior service military personell. Arbites, correct me if I'm wrong, are more like a federal police force. Higher up the food chain then a regular police officer, but still a cop, not a trained soldier. Throw a policemen into a combat zone and the only thing they have over your common citizen would be ballistic abilities and finding cover, no small unit tactics or how to kee their heads on straight as things blow up around them like a Guardsmen would be.

So, no, it is not "apples to oranges," and I really wish you wouldn't use that anymore, you've abused it to the point of vulgarity in the past. This is more like comparing green apples to red apples or yellow apples. Or macintosh apples to sweet apples or cooking apples. They're all apples damnit! Apples to oranges hear would be comparing Arbites to Orks or Guardsmen to Demons, which are totally different entities and none of the same rules apply. Arbites are a military-esque force, in the same way that police are a military-esque force.

Arbites are fine with the WH codex. My friend runs them, and while they're not the most competitive army out there, he does ok. He ran them as his part of our adepticon team last year and held up his end just fine.

What he does:

WH w/ Allied Marines.

HQ:
Inq. Lord + shooty retinue

Elites:
Cyber-hounds (arco-flaggellents)
Vindicare assassin (swat-team sniper)
Another shooty inquisitor team

Troops:
- max size Arbites w/ shotguns, meltaguns, priest, repressor
- min size: Arbites w/ plasma guns
- allied Marine scouts w/ sniper rifles/rocket launcher (or HB) (they mostly work just like carapace-armoured arbites)

Fast Attack:
Nothing currently, but probably a land-speeder-storm at some point.

Heavy:
Exorcists (missile-launcher style)

Theres a fan made Warhammer 40k 5th edition version of the Adeptus Arbites over at Bell of Lost. It got some good ideas and even modeling tips to custom make guys. Even if you like the entire codex it gives lots of good ideas on other custom works.

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2008/11/play-aid-adeptus-arbites-mini-dex-from.html

Being said friend of Redbeard's, I can attest that I can play just fine w/ the WH codex. It isn't a beat stick army but can hold its own. I think it affords plenty of opportunity to convert and be creative w/ you army selection. I spent 2007 building this army and can field nearly 2500 points of Arbites.

I've read the early GW lists and the BoLS list and found them lacking balance and cohesion. The WH codex allows you to fill your needs. I'm concerned w/ what may happen to my Arbites when/if a new =I= codex shows up.

foil7102 wrote:For the same reason that an american swat team is so much better than a squad of russian conscripts. You are comparing apples to oranges. The better question would be why are they so much better than Storm troopers.

Better than stormies? With no plasma, melta or flamers?

As for why they would be better than guard, first off they are a much smaller more elite organization. Second, they are not beat cops, local planetary authorities handle that, they are there to put down cults, rebellions and invasions. They have to be able to take on local PDF or militias in order to enforce the Imperium`s authority over a planet.

The best comparison is not the American FBI but more like the paramilitary police in a semi lawless country like Pakistan, North Ireland at the height of the troubles or Baghdad. Arbites would be constantly ready for urban combat.

SPARKEYG wrote:Being said friend of Redbeard's, I can attest that I can play just fine w/ the WH codex. It isn't a beat stick army but can hold its own. I think it affords plenty of opportunity to convert and be creative w/ you army selection. I spent 2007 building this army and can field nearly 2500 points of Arbites.

I've read the early GW lists and the BoLS list and found them lacking balance and cohesion. The WH codex allows you to fill your needs. I'm concerned w/ what may happen to my Arbites when/if a new =I= codex shows up.

thanks. It:`s an army I often think of doing, my plan being shotgun arbs and then bolter/riot shield arbs as sisters. But I still think they can be a viable codex or lite codex on their own. Cops are at least as popular a heroic icon as knights or roman legions and GW is missing a chance by not putting out some quick rules and boxed set of the Necromunda arbs.

@KK: I'm just not seeing Arbites like that, and not so different from a Sister-free WH list.

What can't you do with WH or WH/Guard that actually requires an all-new Codex?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Cops are at least as popular a heroic icon as knights or roman legions and GW is missing a chance by not putting out some quick rules and boxed set of the Necromunda arbs.

Just because it is a popular heroic icon doesn't mean they have a place in a wargame. I think that's why they don't do it. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and you don't bring a police force to a battlefield. While some of their equipment, and maybe some of their training are the same, that's really not what they're for. I'm not saying that they're a bad thing, or that people with this interest should not find a way to field them, but that GW has enough problems keeping up with their core armies, and I'd rather see their time spent on armies rather than police forces.

Bejebus, Kid and Skinny I am agreeing with both of you and you don't realize it. In the fluff Arbits are bad asses, the local planetary governors fear the arbites, and they have the local pdf to back them up. These are some highly trained individuals and their stats should back them up. The point is that these guys should be better than standard guard. But on the other hand, the cream of the Imperial guard, the so called special forces of the Imperium, the Storm trooper should be better than the best cop. Like I said an American Swat is better than Russian conscript troopers, however a seal or delta operative would be much better than the average swat team member. Kid's rules above I think are slightly too good. If I had to pick between Kid's arbites above, or codex stormies, well i would be adding the arbites every time. However after the IG dex comes out I might be singing a different tune. Skinny I am forced to used trite phrases so that I am understood. Obviously you have demonstrated that I need to go even simplier.

EDIT to capitalize American Dang it!

JohnHwangDD wrote:@KK: I'm just not seeing Arbites like that, and not so different from a Sister-free WH list.

What can't you do with WH or WH/Guard that actually requires an all-new Codex?

The AA would be an army mikdway between Marines and the IG with marine gear (rhinos, land speeders, bikes) the IG are not allowed. Plus there are unique units like riot shields, cyber hounds and so on that no one has.

It`s more or less doable with one of the Inquisition books, or with marines scouts but y`know, not quite right.

Of course the new IG book might make take care of this for us.

On power... how is my unit better than storm troopers? The bolters?

Redbeard wrote:
Just because it is a popular heroic icon doesn't mean they have a place in a wargame. I think that's why they don't do it. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and you don't bring a police force to a battlefield. While some of their equipment, and maybe some of their training are the same, that's really not what they're for. I'm not saying that they're a bad thing, or that people with this interest should not find a way to field them, but that GW has enough problems keeping up with their core armies, and I'd rather see their time spent on armies rather than police forces.

I don`t see too many roman legions taking the field these days either but GW still does OK with them.

Don`t think of them as beat cops　but as special forces on urban combat missions.

@KK : I think most of those things you listed as being the domain of the Arbites is actually the territory of the Inquisition, PDF, and Imperial Guard. Arbites, at least in what I have read about them, are more like SWAT or Cops+ to the local officials, and the police of the areas between jurisdictions (like State Troopers are to town police officers). Not really a large force able to topple a formal PDF, it is the power that lies behind them (the Imperial Guard and other Imperial Forces) rather then they themselves. How they are played in Necromunda is different then if they were to be carried over to 40k.

@ Foil : Maybe instead of trying to be simpler, you need to try and be more adept at using the correct phrases? Just because one might think it can fit, or that it, overall, has an idea, does not mean it actually fits. A set of vise grips can turn a bolt, but you don't replace your wrenches with them. It is a question of precision and proper use of a phrases. Don't say "comparing apples to oranges" unless it is a situation akin to comparing apples to oranges. Example; comparing cars to trucks by using a single scaling system (yes cars get better gas mileage and comfort, but you can't transport half a ton of material in them, and yes, trucks was powerful and durable, but you can't take four of your friends around in them).

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The AA would be an army mikdway between Marines and the IG with marine gear (rhinos, land speeders, bikes) the IG are not allowed. Plus there are unique units like riot shields, cyber hounds and so on that no one has.

It`s more or less doable with one of the Inquisition books, or with marines scouts but y`know, not quite right.

So they're Sisters? Riot Shields can count as Flagellants, or WH Crusaders. Cyber Hounds are Flagellants or Repentia.

IMO, everything so far suggests that "counts as WH" is the way to go.

In all seriousness, I don't think there really is a point to developing an Arbites codex. Firstly, there really isn't a hole in the Imperial forces for them to fill, Grenadier IG, Inquisitor, Witch Hunters, Space Marines, and Deamonhunters pretty much fill the slate. And secondly, there is not fluff for them to be on a battlefield. Is it possible for them to hit the Battlefield? Yeah, but it is possible for the NYPD to get deployed to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. Is that possible? Yes. Will it happen? Not a chance on a cold day in hell.

It's a good idea for a themed battle, but then the Witch Hunters Codex seems to work fine from what I've heard. Depending on how you want to portray. Heck, Imperial Guard would work fine too, though I would say making them Conscripts with Warrior Weapons makes more sense and you don't have to make up a bunch of silly and strange new rules.

Silly and strange rule that doesn't make sense?

Well for one those gas grenade launchers;
a) If they were so good, why not give them to regular Guard? I'm sure they would appreciate it.
b) How would they work agaisnt Space Marines? Chaos Space Marines? Eldar? Orks? Tau? Dark Eldar? NECRONS! Who don't even breath!

Shock Mauls;
a) Same as before.
b) Pretty much the same as before leaving out Orks (Everyone else is wearing full body armor).

Why are the "Storm Troopers" cheaper again? Because they LACK an option you PAY for? So if I don't take Plasma, Flamers, or Meltas should my Storm Troopers for regular IG be cheaper?

Like I said i could drop the gas grenades but they're part of the whole concept.

In their defense...

2nd edition had seperate saves for gases but 3rd has sublinated everything into the armor save, marine (etc) helmets apparently fail 1/3 of the time. or the jarheads take them off to scream baldly.

The issue of Necrons has been brought up a bunch of times with respect to sniper rifles (fire needles of poison), tyranid living ammo, callidus psychic disrupter (no brains) and other exotic weapons and the answer seems to be, fight fluff with fluff.

When fighting Necrons they break out the EMP grenades, or corrosive gas, or some other weapon that just happens to do the exact same thing as gas would to living beings.

They're cheaper than stromies because, well, who takes STs without special weapons? The price of an ST plasma gun is NOT 10 points, it's 50 points (minimum squad) + 10. The AA can't get a plasma gun at all so need a lower price to make them more attractive.

Yeah, maybe Arbs as STs is the best way to go but hardly much fun from a rules-writing perspective.

Agreed. If you like to just write rules then go right ahead. If we're talking about how they would fit into 40k then that's a different stand point.

You'll notice that nobody has "Poison" weapons anymore, with a few exceptions (sniper rifles don't necessarily fire "Poison Needles", by the way) and some odds and ends you'll just have to excuse (like the Psychic Disruptor, but you can also look at that as disturbing the spirit that is in the machine, so there's a good bit of working fluff there). This is all mostly because 40k has become drastically more exotic then it was in 2nd edition, and armies are a whole gak ton bigger! I joined just as 2nd was phasing out, and most battles then topped off at 1500pts, and that was not very common, basically because it would just take all day to play. Reasons aside, it would just be easier to give it a strength stat of 5 or 6, which would wound most units on a 3+ or better. The exceptions would be extra large and tough creatures, which would, obviously, be able to take more abuse given their larger bodies and different metabolisms. You can still call it a "Gas Grenade" but just have it work like everything else and let people bicker over what exactly is in those "Gas" rounds; is it a major corrosive agent? Or perhaps it is actually an acid bomb! KISS is the best bet. Simple rules work best, especially on the scales we play now.

I still majorly object to your arguement that Storm Troopers are priced that way, it is a load of bull, flat straight and simple. Your explanation reads more like a cop out then an actual arguement. Plenty of people don't use Plasma or Melta weapons in their Storm Trooper squads and they still work fine. For one, they are the only unit in IG that can deepstrike without taking "Drop Troops" Doctrine, which makes them a great disruptor that the IG usually don't have, and can be dropped to either capture or contest objectives that you would otherwise have to slodge out to. If they are dropping onto objectives, odds are they won't get to use their weapons, if once, before assaults, so buying those assault weapons isn't even worthwhile. You're not getting those weapons any cheaper because of the unit price, so dropping the unit price because you're not able to buy them doesn't make sense. Especially considering they can have two of those stubbers instead.

What doesn't make sense (fluff-wise), is that 40K police can get bolters when Stormtroopers can't. There is a good reason they're only issued to Space Marines and other power-armour-wearing troops; they aren't exactly cheap to produce. Remove that option.

Furthermore, face it; 40K's policemen wouldn't go out and fight aliens and Chaos when the IG and Spase Marienz (hurr) have it covered.

I have a question. What are the Arbites ( I didn't read the fluff)

From my understanding of whats been told are they suppose to be like Nazi Gestapo? They were mainly a police force and they used SS troops to ferret out traitors to the Regime. Would they be like this or is that what the Inquisition kinda does (which as far as my take on them is that they deal with religious choices over political ones)

If so then I can see the Arbites as an elite force of soldiers that would engage enemy forces (probably not that often) better then guardsman. I would imagine they would Confiscate local Imperial War Machines and such. So yeah coming to this Conclusion it would probably be smarter to place the Arbites as an Imperial Guard army that can take Stormtroopers as Troop options. Though a Land speeder probably would fit in to their army too.

I think the concept of elite police force soldiers running at Aliens and Demons holding a riot shield and electric stick pretty funny. Not good but funny. Can you imagine police in today's world charging into regular battle with such weaponry? neither can I

I was bitten by the Arbites bug a few years ago, I got involved with the Arbites Yahoo Group and a friend and I knocked up a variant of their list together. Since then I boiled down the core of my ideas for 4th edition Arbites here.

Re: Kid K's concept:

This looks to be along the lines that I was thinking, the only exists as allies concept is good. The only dissagreements are that Boltguns should be a free swap out, the Shotguns should be 12" range, Shock Mauls should be 'Poison' (game mechanic not fluff) and Veteran Sergeants should be part of the basic squad like for Space Marines.

IIRC. Arbites come from the same training schools as Storm Troopers, Sisters of Battle and Commissars.

I guess this is what people meant by making the favored units over powered.


Bolters on arbites? makes no sense at all. These guys are like military police , riot police .
Not space marine / sister of battles elite forces.

4+ armor safe , 3+ with riot shield? i dont know but flak armor + a shield is equivalent of
marine power armor is pretty weird. If anything, 5+ flak armor , +4 with shield.

Power maul always wound on 4+? Makes no sense either, ever see taser on elephants or other large creatures?
maybe it needs specific rules like auto wound on 4+ on creatures with T4 or less. No effect on creatures T5 and above.

Same goes on the gas.

LunaHound wrote:Bolters on arbites? makes no sense at all...

Check out the model range, Bolters are a common weapon amongst 'Adeptus' troops

BtW: Arbites should come equipped with a Bolt pistol side arm.

You cant use old fluff to the current standard to how the armies have evolved.

or else you get:

Beastman Guards ( talk about hersy )
Single guards that can use heavy weapons ( love it? )



The list can go on but you get my point right?

LunaHound wrote:You cant use old fluff to the current standard to how the armies have evolved.

or else you get:

Beastman Guards ( talk about hersy )
Single guards that can use heavy weapons ( love it? )

And this is bad because?

There is no new new Arbite fluff. Kid K has to use something to base his new Arbite concept off and to my mind the existing model range is the only legitimate thing on which to base new rules concepts.

George Spiggott wrote:

LunaHound wrote:You cant use old fluff to the current standard to how the armies have evolved.

or else you get:

Beastman Guards ( talk about hersy )
Single guards that can use heavy weapons ( love it? )

And this is bad because?

There is no new new Arbite fluff. Kid K has to use something to base his new Arbite concept off and to my mind the existing model range is the only legitimate thing on which to base new rules concepts.

What im trying to say is. If the arbite is to be used and played against the armies NOW not decades ago, it would still
need to follow similar Now rules, and make some sense.

Fluffs evolve, rules change. I never said it was BAD to come up with something playable with updated Arbites.

I don't see how this should preclude them from having Boltguns, both the fluff and the rules can support it.

You raise a good point about power mauls though, there's probably a fair argument to be made that Arbite close combat units have no place on the 40k battlefield (no 'Arbite' models for a start). I think they would be valid as a 'Inquisitor Retinue' style model type though. I proxied them as Witch hunter Crusaders.

George Spiggott wrote:I don't see how this should preclude them from having Boltguns, both the fluff and the rules can support it.

You raise a good point about power mauls though, there's probably a fair argument to be made that Arbite close combat units have no place on the 40k battlefield (no 'Arbite' models for a start). I think they would be valid as a 'Inquisitor Retinue' style model type though. I proxied them as Witch hunter Crusaders.

It can, but then it would make them better geared then stormstrooper / karskins ( when you look at them as individuals, nvm about the weapon upgrades )

I just cant picture planetary defence police been better geared then soldiers that
travels the galaxys to shoot aliens -_-

but thats just me , dont let what i said effect how this project turns out lol.

It's possible that Stormtroopers will get S4 Shotguns and improved Hellguns in May when the new Imperial Guard Codex is released.

Remember that stopping power (Str) isn't the only factor in deciding on which weapon to use. For Stormtroopers Hellguns have other (fluff) advantages such as ammunition and spare parts compatibility with other Imperial Guard weapons that Boltguns do not have.

Arbites are unlike any Police force that the modern western world uses. They’re garrisoned troops specialising in martial law and small scale sieges against organised small scale forces (Genestealer & Chaos cults). A bit like GI Joe.