Football/Soccer

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**99MDeery**

Right with a current thread degenerating into a discussion about Football i thought i'd start a thread about our beautiful game so we can all discuss all things related to football.

Obviously I'm a Liverpool fan so i hope we win the title but what does the rest of the community think about the Premier League or in fact anything to football, such as Barcelona's amazing run at the moment i am dreading it if we face them in the Champions League, i'm so glad we got Madrid.

**reds8n**

Madrid over 2 legs I think we can do, I think they're actually in a similar sort of situation to us, especially with regards to pressure to do well in their own league.

Villa would have been an ace signing indeed, although again that would involve a drastic change of system which I can't see Benitez doing.

Overall, despite far too many drawn matches I do think we're better than last year- a lot of the 1-1 draws I think we would have lost 1-nil last year, and Torres' injuries haven't helped.

Success story of the season though has to be O'Neill at Aston Villa. I've always rated him as a manager, he was the on I wanted for Liverpool.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Sorry, im just an ignorant Yank... but im soon to be stationed in Germany, and thought it prudent to try and gain some knowledge into this strange variety of "football" you play

hehe, so i know that over here WE call it soccer, but you so eloquently call it football, for much more obvious reasons than we call our HURR sport football....

what are these "premier" leagues, and "champions" leagues?? ohh, and how come the teams dont do mascots the same way that american sports do???

sorry if this could be construed as thread-jacking... but i figure its about the sport, and hopefully can bring some folks up to speed

**stonefox**

Well, the American Football superbowl is tonight

**99MDeery**

aye and the fact that thanks to the previous manager (cannot spell his name) they hardly have a squad and rely far to much on players like Raul and Van Nistolroy.

Perhaps necessary to change to formation but if you had David Villa and Torres would you not? and yes reds8n we are doing better than last season, its just a shame games we would have breezed through last year (Wigan and Stoke spring to mind) we are drawing which is a concern but we seem to get the results that count, i'm hoping we can do the double on United as well as Chelsea to take away their game in hand advantage, the showdown will be at Old Trafford.

Villa, definitely a success story O'Niel is a great manager and really believes in his players you can see that, even if they lose they stick with the same team to keep it consistent, losing Carew was not as big a blow to the team as i thought it would be and now they have Carew, Hesky and Agbonlahor to pick from this is their season to hit the top 4.

However what about Hull City, for a team that has just come up they have done fantastic, running out of steam now i feel but they should have the ability to avoid relegation, especially if Newcastle continue the way they are going at the moment.

On that note, whats your predictions for relegation this season, West Brom are a definite i think but the rest, its quite a tough one to call.

**99MDeery**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:Sorry, im just an ignorant Yank... but im soon to be stationed in Germany, and thought it prudent to try and gain some knowledge into this strange variety of "football" you play hehe, so i know that over here WE call it soccer, but you so eloquently call it football, for much more obvious reasons than we call our HURR sport football....

what are these "premier" leagues, and "champions" leagues?? ohh, and how come the teams dont do mascots the same way that American sports do???

sorry if this could be construed as thread-jacking... but i figure its about the sport, and hopefully can bring some folks up to speed

Not a problem, i do apologize being English "football" is what we call soccer and strangely enough we call your football "American Football".

To answer a few questions, the Premier League is the American equivalent of Major League Soccer (Italians = Seria A, Spanish - La Liga etc etc)

And the champions league is the top teams (normally 4th - 1st, but sometimes in the case of the Dutch League or Belgian its less) in their respective leagues play each other for the right to be crowned Champions of Europe.

To avoid anymore confusion I will add Soccer to the end of the topic title for our American counterparts

**lifeafter**

Is anyone a fan of the Kilmarnock Killies?

**99MDeery**

lifeafter wrote:Is anyone a fan of the Kilmarnock Killies?

Who?!?! Obscure team of the month award goes to you sir!

**reds8n**

The Premier league is the top flight league of the English football league- see here for the current league positions.

Each team plays every other twice--once at home and once away. 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and zero for getting your ass kicked.

Team at the top with the most points at the end of the season wins, the bottom 3 get relegated down into the championship league --same format with divisions 1 and 2 beneath them. then there's a whole bunch of local/amateur leagues which follows the same sort of principles.

The Champions league is a cup competition that features the top teams from across all the european leagues. And Israel too as for some reason tehir neighbours won't play them ?

The English premiership this year ( and for the last few) has been allowed to enter the top 4 finishing teams. They initially play in little mini leagues against each other-- as you can see here.

The winning teams from those-- generally the top 2 of each group, then go into the knockout phase which starts up agai in a couple of weeks. As you can see here.

This elimination matches continue until you're left with the top 2 teams who meet in the final. With the possible exception of the world cup this is the most prestigious prize to win in football.

We don't know how you can call your game football either.

**lifeafter**

I only know it because my grandparents used to own a good chunk of it back in the 90s. I used to get the Jerseys for Christmas/Birthday and had next to no idea what they were. For the longest time I thought they were called the Atmays because I didn't realize that sponsors bought the big front are of jerseys in Europe.

Obscure, maybe. But they are in the FIFA games...

**reds8n**

For relegation I think West Brom, Stoke and I'll take a punt on Blackburn. With the hammers escaping on the last day due to some dodgy refereeing decision.

**99MDeery**

reds8n wrote:For relegation I think West Brom, Stoke and I'll take a punt on Blackburn. With the hammers escaping on the last day due to some dodgy refereeing decision.

Interesting choice on Blackburn considering they have just got Allerdyce. West Ham, unsure Zola and Clarke have got the team playing some awesome football and Di Michele does look good.

My 3 are West Brom, Stoke and Pompy, they are just playing rubbish, i'm so glad we off loaded Pennant onto them.

And great breakdown of how European football works, better than mine

Obscure, maybe. But they are in the FIFA games...

True but every team is in Fifa they have 25 Leagues in the game, i will have to look this team up you've made me curious.

**lifeafter**

They're in the Scottish Premiere league.

**reds8n**

ninth in fact

**99MDeery**

Not too shabby, its a shame about Scottish football, its just about two teams, same as Spain and Italy really.

**lifeafter**

Yeah. I remember having the following conversation with my grandpa a couple years ago about that team: "Grandpa, did you make any money off that team?"
"The team? Hell no. That was just for fun. Unless you owned the Rangers or Celtics, you don't make any money in that league."

**reds8n**

Yeah, I wish they'd just bite the bullet and fold them into the English leagues. Given the way the games going and the vast sums of £ flying around I really don't see how the small scottish clubs can expect to survive without grasping a chunk of the much bigger and richer english football pie.

And of course that means we'd get the old firm clashes on MOTD !

**Kilkrazy**

The same is true of a lot of English football in the lower divisions.

Some of the Premier teams will be in trouble if their sugar daddy owners lose too much money in the credit crunch etc.

I always admired the way the NHL is run as a business for the whole league, not just the top few teams.

**99MDeery**

reds8n wrote:Yeah, I wish they'd just bite the bullet and fold them into the English leagues. Given the way the games going and the vast sums of £ flying around I really don't see how the small scottish clubs can expect to survive without grasping a chunk of the much bigger and richer english football pie.

And of course that means we'd get the old firm clashes on MOTD !

As much as Old Firm clashes on MOTD would be awesome it will never happen, the Scots like their sport seperate so they keep their national identity, or something to that degree, tbh i like it like that, all the other Scottish teams would mull around in the lower leagues and only Celtic and Rangers would be able to survive in the Premier League IMO.

Also breaking news, Tottenham have just bid £15 Million for Robbie Keane.

**Kilkrazy**

Keeps it more competitive, in theory, though the Bengals have been looking sad for nearly 20 years.

**99MDeery**

Kilkrazy wrote:The same is true of a lot of English football in the lower divisions.

Some of the Premier teams will be in trouble if their sugar daddy owners lose too much money in the credit crunch etc.

I always admired the way the NHL is run as a business for the whole league, not just the top few teams.

Very good point KK, i have always liked how the American Leagues (not Soccer) run the transfer window to keep it at least fair, instead of teams like Milan, Arsenal etc snap up all the good players

**reds8n**

Does seem to be a fairer way of doing it-- and completely against the concepts of the free-market too.

Americans eh ?

I would like to perhaps see some rule about X amount of squad players having to be from the clubs own academy or similar.

**Greebynog**

The problem with Liverpool is Rafa's conservatism. He's far too willing to sit back on a one goal lead and defend, often poorly. Liverpool/Wigan was a case in point, whilst Liverpool go one up, sit back and then get nobbled with a late equaliser, Man U go one up against West Brom, and promptly put another 4 past them. I know WBA are a much worse team than Wigan, but Liverpool shouldn't be stumbling against such compartively weak opposition as Wigan and Stoke, it's shocking. Today's game was a perfect example, neither side looked like they really wanted to win, it was a dire game. Meanwhile, Man U have kept a record breaking 12 clean sheets on the trot, without a settled back four, which is incredible. Nemanja Vidic is very possibly the best centre-back in the world, and the addition of Dimitar Berbatov has given them a completely different option up front to Rooney and Tevez, and there's still the boy Ronaldo to think about. I really, honestly, can't see anyone catching them, Man U don't throw away points. They just don't.

As for Hull, I bloody hope they go down, they're only five points off and haven't won in an age, they got lucky at the start, now their lack of quality and depth is showing. Phil Brown's a gakker too.

Predictions for relegation:
West Brom (sadly, they play really nice football at times with a positive approach)
Middlesbrough (I like Southgate, but with their best player wanting out, they look in a lot of trouble)
Either Stoke or Portsmouth, probably Stoke.

**99MDeery**

reds8n wrote:Does seem to be a fairer way of doing it-- and completely against the concepts of the free-market too. Americans eh ?

I would like to perhaps see some rule about X amount of squad players having to be from the clubs own academy or similar.

the academy thing i could see working nice idea, didn't they introduce that rule into the champions league a few years ago and their was complete uproar?

**Ensis Ferrae**

reds8n wrote:Does seem to be a fairer way of doing it-- and completely against the concepts of the free-market too. Americans eh ?

I would like to perhaps see some rule about X amount of squad players having to be from the clubs own academy or similar.

actually.. we still have a sport with no salary cap, and free-market, generally speaking, as it was meant to be... and that's "america's past time" Baseball

of course, my favorite team gets blamed for snatching up all the best players, and paying top dollar for them too

**Greebynog**

99MDeery wrote:
reds8n wrote:Does seem to be a fairer way of doing it-- and completely against the concepts of the free-market too. Americans eh ?

I would like to perhaps see some rule about X amount of squad players having to be from the clubs own academy or similar.

the academy thing i could see working nice idea, didn't they introduce that rule into the champions league a few years ago and their was complete uproar?

There's is a 'homegrown' player quota in the Champions League, X amount must have played for the team for Y amount of years under Z age, and N amount of players must be have citizenship of the club's country. It's being discussed to be added to the English football league, but not the premiership.

**reds8n**

You know you were saying about the sports may be different but the conversations/moans are the same the world over......

There was talk about introducing a % requirement of the teams home nationality I believe, but aside from the big clubs freaking out this is also currently illegal under European employment rules. They could get round this if they were sensible and tried to phase it in, buts as Platini is a grade A cock and despises English football/it's success I can see some ill thought out legislation happening soon.

That said i think ti sensible to start putting caps on things like club turnover and wage %s, I gather some of the Premiership clubs are up to something stupid like 76-80% of turnover on wages !

**whatwhat**

reds8n wrote:That said i think ti sensible to start putting caps on things like club turnover and wage %s, I gather some of the Premiership clubs are up to something stupid like 76-80% of turnover on wages !

Cap turnover? And you don't think that would lead to the top clubs leaving the premiership? Of course it would, especially with all the talk of a European super league around. + most premiership clubs are actually well in the red.

**WeeHessy**

Whilst footballers get payed loads, remember that they are at the top of their profession. Andy Murray gets paid loads for his tennis, and I don't see anyone trying to cap Sir Alan Sugar's salary any time soon!

WRT to Scottish teams in English league. Scottish teams are in no way capable of taking on the Premiership, with the exception of the Old-Firm. The reason for the current difference is cash. Even bottom of the league Premiership teams get more cash from TV liscensing than the top of the SPL teams. This leads to a bigger difference and means that when it comes to European games, Rangers and Celtic come face to face with teams that are way better than they face every weekend. So when Rangers crashed out of Europe it was no surprise. They got to the UEFA cup final on pure luck before.

For the record I'm a St Mirren fan. Look up their history: more to this local team than meats the eye!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mirren

**99MDeery**

WeeHessy: I take it Setanta don't pay alot for the SPL games they like to rave about so much then? But you are right most of the Scottish teams would falter against a side like Wigan or Bolton.

And with regards to footballers pay, they get the most criticism because they are the ones that flaunt their cash around (Rooney buying his mrs a new Bentley springs to mind) as such it garners criticism, i forget whether it was Micheal Owen or someone else that came under public criticism because he was spending a couple of afternoons a week gambling at a casino after training, his response was simply, I don't have an addiction that is preposterous i just earn enough money that i can happily throw 5 or 10 grand away at a casino for an afternoons entertainment now leave me alone, but the British press were all over it like a bad rash with no cure.