Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright, so my buddy and often talk about our future, and we tend to be very unsure or unhappy with a lot of our possibilities. One of them that has popped up a lot lately though, is an option that we both think we could be happy with. That option is starting up a friendly local game store. Now, we aren't out of college yet, and we are at a point in our college careers, that we could shift our majors towards business. I mean... as an art major... I guess I could do graphic design work for ads and such, but we probably could use some business experience.

Anyway, I'm ranting, so here's what I would like to know. In the simplest way possible, could somebody explain what we would need to do in order to start up an online (ebay) games workshop products store? We have a location, we have knowledge of ebay and shipping, and we are responsible people, so I think we have a real chance at making this work... with a little help.

You want to have a B&M store and sell on ebay? Or are you just looking for how to contact GW to get their product? You can contact GW directly through their website or go through distributors like Alliance.

There are FLGS owners on here that could give you better advice, but if you're thinking of starting up an ebay shop to sell GW product at full retail; sorry to burst your bubble; but don't bother. People aren't going to ebay for that.

Good Luck!

Well we obviously wouldn't sell them at full retail price. From what I've seen, 10-20% off is the expected deal on NIB products.

Edit: Also, the ebay store idea is mostly just a start-up idea. I mean, if this got big, we would definitely talk about getting a location, and a website and a phone/e-mail ordering system... since shopping carts are a big no-no.

Running a business is no easy job, particularly if you might have a challenge in separating "work" from "play".

A *lot* of hobby stores fail precisely because the owner thinks more about having their own clubhouse than paying the rent.

It's a tough job.

I think there's a wealth of information on the web, but I suggest:
- Behind the Counter
- Opening a Game Store

Good luck!

If you're in the US (The location flags sometimes tell horrible lies, so I'm only guessing that you are) you won't get a trade account from GW to sell just on eBay. So far as I'm aware, they require a B&M store as a part of their conditions.

Not sure if Alliance (who are a distributor of GW and many other companies) has the same requirement.

Well, my dad owns an autoparts store(which I occasionally work at. Although most of the time, I just come in to fix the computers and buy primer), and I have to say, if you want to start a hobby shop, or store of any kind, that's all fine and good, but you need to realize what you're getting into. You'll have to put all your time into that store, and you may even come to resent it.

You'll have people who complain, people who mess things up, and people who just annoy the hell out of you, and you've got to just grin and bear it.

Personally, I wouldn't open a store, because of other ambitions, not to mention that I couldn't imagine having to deal with all the things that my father does, and still manage to go to work the next day.

If you think you can do it, by all means, try, but really, make sure you know what you're getting in to, what you stand to lose, and whether you can live with it..

Fafnir wrote:You'll have people who complain, people who mess things up, and people who just annoy the hell out of you, and you've got to just grin and bear it.

Sounds like my outlook on life in general. That's something I'm ready to deal with. The having a physical store location though... that's an issue for now.

Are you ready to work 3 hours extra every day without overtime because people keep coming in at the last minute and wasting your time?

Are you ready to give up all of your free time for your business?

Are you ready to spend at least 2 years making no money?

Are you ready to make very little money when you actually start to turn a profit?

Are you ready to get out should something go wrong with the business?

Are you ready to accept the responsibility of a $100,000 loan?

You won't get an account with GW if you don't own an actual physical location. So first off, decide if 1) you're going to get product out of someone else, (At a higher cost), and sell out of your garage, or 2) If you are going to open an actual storefront.

If you are opening a real store, start taking some accounting, math, and marketing classes. Go to the GamesResourcesForum, it's a site for would be game store owners. You can post your ideas and have them savagely torn to pieces by those of us who have already made those mistakes. Easier by far to learn from other peoples than make your own. After we knock some of the excitement out of you, you can start on a real business plan, and have that one looked over. Continue asking questions and learning until your ready to open.

If you want to do the online thing. Good luck. Go study what Warstore does. You have to outdo Neal in service, price, and politeness.

First question is why do you think your town can support a/another game store?

Second, do you have any idea what level of sales you'd have to drive to make this a profitable enterprise for you?

Lastly, do you think you have enough working capital to get started with a lease, utilities, shelving, and inventory. Given the current credit crisis, loans are extremely had to secure.

If you truly want to do it, go for it because the only people that are guaranteed to fail are those who do not try.

But, one piece of advice, if you go into business with someone make SURE you can work with them. I cant tell you how many times I have seen people get screwed by their "friend" in a business venture. Money brings out the worst in people.

I say its better to do it on your own, its scarier that way, but then you are your own man and not reliant on the approval of another person to make any major decisions. Or minor decisions for that matter.

Well, this idea is falling short. Not because I'm not willing to do the work, and I'm not committed, but for now (while in college) I really can't do it full time in an actual store. If GW requires a store, and won't open a trade account with us otherwise, then there's nothing we can do just yet.

Erm... that's what you go to college for. You're going to need at least a crash course in entrepreneurship, supply chain management, and retail management. If your school offers anything in real estate management, that'd be a great take as well to help you select a location with demographics capable of supporting a store. Just to apply for these courses you'll have to take Economics and [Business] Calculus.

Yes, you could run a store well without the aforementioned. But no way in hell will a bank give you a loan without it, especially in today's modern financial climate. You need to be able to speak the lingo and then do a *bang up* presentation. You will then get grilled by experts in their industry guarding a six figure payout, and if your answer to any single question is "I don't know", you walk away.

If you're serious about this idea, start now. Apply all of your acquired knowledge to it, and make it your long term goal. Present your idea to your professors; many Business profs work in the financial or business sector on the side, and their guidance will be invaluable. You are paying them to give you their acquired knowledge.

to OP:

There are many ebay sellers that offer 30% off retail price + free shipping to rest of USA.

If that leaves you with any profit left, feel free to do ebay.

To attract customers to an actual retail store is not as easy as just acquiring GW products and hope to sell .
Most of your incomes will be through the close knit of players that will end up comming to your store. You'll have to end up hosting some sort of game club / provide playing spaces for them.

Without such commodity you'll be quickly out competed and lose the customers very fast.

I was thinking of opening a Webstore should the suing of my former employers go spectacularly well (as in I get a mult thousand pound payout. Not impossible, but perhaps not that likely).

But I think I'll just take a holiday to Japan and pay my parents back.

Then again, running my own webstore would be a doddle. Got cheap rent here, a secure shed to keep the stock in, so I could offer a significant discount. Possibly. I dunno.

I've not thought this through between 'webstore or Nippon?'

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think there's a wealth of information on the web, but I suggest:
- Behind the Counter
- Opening a Game Store

Good luck!

This is a bit of a slap in the face:

John Kaufeld has a more complicated opinion: "I completely agree that a boardgame-only store aimed at a traditional adventure gaming clientele won't work. Hard-core gamers can't and won't support such a store, although they'll gleefully eat free food and play in your game room. Regardless of the local population, it just wont happen. You might as well take your start-up money to Vegas and hit the tables, because you'll probably get a better return there."

I almost bought a gamestore in Maryland about 4-5 years ago with a friend. We would have failed and gone down in flames.

Now that I've worked in the gaming industry for a few years...well there's not much more I can confirm that the other people have said. It's alot of work, you need the right location, the right space, the right people coming in to play and you need to be able to recruit new gamers into the various hobbies you are offering.

AND then you will end up with gaming space, and a nice store, and a lease and a loan to pay off and people coming in with product they bought from the Warstore at what...20-30% off? So you won't be making any money at all.

It's a hard problem....We as gamers need stores to play in ( I can safely say 75% of the gamers I have met I would not invite to my house..sorry), the stores need to make money, but gamers are notoriously cheap and will always buy at a discount if they can ( or download PDF's), so the stores get shafted.

This is one reason why GW forbides web only stores.

Personally, I always buy at the local FLGS, because I want them to stay open. Yes, I spend more money...but whats the point in having all those games and mini's if you have no place to play.

Hmmmm now that I have the free time, I should drive up to Mikhaila's store!

My wife will burn through REAMS of cash on the online stores. thewarstore.com has supplied much of my crack habit since '01 when she put in her first order. I try to buy at my FLGS, because I think it's a great place with a great crowd. I really enjoy playing there, and my wife likes it because when my cell dies she can call the landline there and always has me close at hand.

BigToof wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think there's a wealth of information on the web, but I suggest:
- Behind the Counter
- Opening a Game Store

Good luck!

This is a bit of a slap in the face:

John Kaufeld has a more complicated opinion: "I completely agree that a boardgame-only store aimed at a traditional adventure gaming clientele won't work. Hard-core gamers can't and won't support such a store, although they'll gleefully eat free food and play in your game room. Regardless of the local population, it just wont happen. You might as well take your start-up money to Vegas and hit the tables, because you'll probably get a better return there."

Apparently you haven't been to many local gaming stores around me. A lot of those people are scum with a terrible entitlement problem.

Absolutely agree with Iorek. We're lucky enough to have a gaming store with an attached 'Game Room' that has an outside exit and can be locked off from the rest of the store for after-hours play. It is regularly trashed. I'm talking filled with garbage and food wrappers, any terrain unlucky enough to miss lockdown is inevitably broken, and the massive amounts of electronics people haul in regularly short the circuits.

The vastest majority of these "regulars" play boardgames purchased online or using downloaded RPG .pdfs.

Man... I just wish I even had a FLGS. Anyway, my friends and I have a certain etiquette. When we are in tight-knit groups with very close friends, say playing in one of our dorm rooms or study lounges, we can use whatever we want for RPGs. PDFs, even some homebrew stuff if the DM is cool with it. When we play with people outside of our immediate clique though, that's when the real books come out (this is why I have a full set of 4.0 stuff... ugh...).

Anyway, considering the small amount of 40k books, my roommate and I split the cost of the core rulebook, and we each bought our respective codexes. I mean... the amount of money invested in this game, what's an extra $25, and you still get an amazing group of pictures, fluff, and the ease of being able to put in page markers for quick reference to that unit you can't quite remember the stat line to.

Don't, for a second, think that a FLGS offering 20%+ off can't work. it absolutely CAN... you'd just have to sell online, too.

The Miniature Market (www.miniaturemarket.com) offers a minimum 20% off of everything and they have a FAILRY LARGE store with a diverse and good amount of stock.
In fact, they host a 40K tourney once a month. Feb's tournament has 30 players.

Buy online or in the store... 20%+ off, either way.

Eric

I've been toying with offering the LGS the opportunity to match Neal for the volume and marginal profit, but that seems like a pain in the ass.

Particularly as I don't even game there...

JohnHwangDD wrote:I've been toying with offering the LGS the opportunity to match Neal for the volume and marginal profit, but that seems like a pain in the ass.

Particularly as I don't even game there...

That usually pisses the owner off ALOT. As in they wont kick you out but will glare
at you whenever you set your foot in it -_-

But cant exactly blame them... they have to dish out extra money and time to host places
for his customer to play games with i know you dont game there but, for him its
all the same D:

@Luna: You misunderstand my point. I don't interact with the store at all. My group games in our garages. We have NO need for LGS at all.

So in effect, I'd be going out of my way to bring a little extra mail order business to the LGS.

I generate no costs for him, aside from a few minutes of his time to increase his order with GW / Alliance / whomever. He gets a few extra bucks profit. I'd feel slightly better spending some money locally.

MagickalMemories wrote:Don't, for a second, think that a FLGS offering 20%+ off can't work. it absolutely CAN... you'd just have to sell online, too.

The Miniature Market (www.miniaturemarket.com) offers a minimum 20% off of everything and they have a FAILRY LARGE store with a diverse and good amount of stock.
In fact, they host a 40K tourney once a month. Feb's tournament has 30 players.

Buy online or in the store... 20%+ off, either way.

Eric

Yeah, and Gorilla Tactics, just look how good they are..uh....nevermind.

Sure, some stores survive for a while and discount heavy. They are also the exceptions to the rule, not the norm.

About 6-7 years ago I was in your place and thought it would be AWESOME to own my own game store. But then I started doing research and while I still think it would be a great venture it's not something for the faint of heart. Your first reason for doing this should be because you want to make a living selling games, not because you love to play 40k.

My idea was a coffee shop cyber cafe with networked PCs where folks pay an hourly fee to play online with a fast connection, and also sell GW stuff, CCGs, RPG books, whatever. But at the time I didn't have the money or the credit for the kind of loan I would need, nor was I willing to put my house up for collateral. I wasn't interested in giving up every ounce of free time and probably not having a day off for several months unless I closed the store and I was too scared to quit my day job because I had too many bills to pay. It's just a huge responsibility that I wasn't prepared for.

But you have an advantage now. If you are in college and your dream is to sell games for a living, then take those business courses. And accounting, and all that stuff. get the skills you need while you're in school, then get a job in a retail store and work your fanny off for a year or 2. If you decide that you hate retail after that, then owning a game store isn't for you. But if after that time you still can't wait to open your own store one day, then maybe you really will be ready to

Also, don't do the discount online thing. You probably won't make enough money and you'll be just like those other places that came and went. Do it right or not at all

I say scrap the Idea of selling product, and open a bar directed towards gamers.


As we know we all gamers love to drink, and eat unhealthy snacks while playing. Booze and snacks have a huge profit margin....


Not to mention you can start a policy that losers buy drinks for the winners


man this Idea is so good I might start it myself

I think Fafnir had some very good advice earlier. Especially on taking a business class or two.

RPG.net had a series of articles covering running a 'general gaming' store (RPGs, tabletop games, etc.) that might be a good read.

Does GW even allow eBay sellers, technically? I thought they stomped on any online sellers, so you had to deal with Alliance. I know from some friends who worked at a former local store that dealing with Alliance could be less than fun sometimes.

If you try to do a brick & mortar store, you've got to be very cost conscious while at the same time making it look good and get people in.

I know ten years ago I would go in a lot of the "Android's Dungeon" stores (Named after the store run by The Simpson's Comic Book Guy). Dimly lit, raw wood shelving, borderline hostile staff, possibly very borderline side product lines, etc. Sure, it's cheaper, but these aren't at all parent (or girlfriend) friendly, and you really, really, want the moms, dads, and/or girlfriends to be cool with letting their loved one come in and game (And, more importantly, BUY STUFF!).

Necros wrote:......I wasn't interested in giving up every ounce of free time and probably not having a day off for several months unless I closed the store and .......

And now that you hang around me, you've got proof of how exactly what you describe can happen. )

I really love my shops, and most of my last 21 years are wrapped up in them. But that also means it's not just my job on the line in this crappy economy, it's my LIFE! And the jobs of many long time employees. It's inconceivable to even think about having a bad year and closing up.

So I skipped vacations the last two years. And gave up days off about a year ago. And I'm working an average of 70 hours a week at the stores, plus some paperwork at home. It's a grind at times, but I'm making sure I keep my business running smooth, and keep ahead of any problems. It's twice as much work right now to earn the same dollar you did a year ago. Just the reality we have to deal with.

Welcome to the glamour, the excitement, the breath taking thrill, of owning your own business!