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Particularly in the next year or so.

Must say don't know...

I do not spend a lot right now (have to finish what I got first) and will probably not do so until july/august. That said, I will be watching what the beta-rules will be like to help me decide if my army is still worth it or not...

Because I honestly don't know until I see some form of rules, I would like the 4th option of saying: "I do not know yet"...

I edited in the option "Ask me again in April"

And I filled in that option

Considering that I haven't bought anything for a few months, I don't see that changing.

I think the real question is - will the game play somewhat the same (with point costs and some extra abilities for jacks) - being a 'caster/lock, 1-3 lights, 1-2 heavies, 1-4 solos, and 2-3 units consisting of a 'force' OR will it be a total game reset, with a 'force' consisting of a lot more units (and generic units at that).

I think the corner that PP has painted themselves into is that most factions have most of what they need, which really only leaves uniques, UAs and WAs to 'fill out' an army.

Let me get this straight. Public field testing, appreciation of said playtesters' opinions and subsequent impact on the final product? Heresy! I can't wait, this might actually swing me their way. I've always liked the mini's, but the gameplay seemed a little rough around the edges, but not unfixable. Count me in.

Hehe I'm excited, too. I just don't want to want this to work too much for fear of being disappointed.

I just read the MKII FAQ, so how does one get in on this public testing?

Personally my spending is based on needing to constantly be working on/towards something. I will keep stuff on my bench and it will probably be WM/H stuff unless they really screw it up (which I very much doubt they will).

I'll keep buying so that I can have my whole faction's set and I know that the game will not end up sucking just because it's a new edition. I like jacks now and would love it they became more useful and if they fixed the tournament missions. I hate running to a spot and standing around FTW

I had already cut back on expensive purchaces and refused to buy Blighted trolls and Steelhead cavalry but I'm still interested in getting odds and ends (mostly Solos, Unit Attachments and Warcasters) I'm unlikely to buy any more units or beasts/jacks anyway as I have almost every model for Cryx and Circle.

I'll probably wait and see, a purchace pause will probably allow me to use some of the models that I haven't used much.

I'm going to buy a few Tharn Bloodtrackers (both on foot and the wolf riders) to use as savages along with some Reaper barbarian and caveman figures. They're intended for use in Song of Blade and Heroes skirmishes though.

Frankly I already have a lot of Mercs and Cygnar and Khador already so I'm kind of happy.

I'm pretty annoyed right now. I just bought a Menoth army last week......

Well as long as they dont come out with Codex and all that jazz i think i'll be ok.

Darefsky your models will still be good. (Though large models are expected to be replaced with plastic or resin versions in the near future since metal has gotten too expensive.) No models are going to be decomissioned or made obsolete from play.

PP will just make you rebuy the main rulebook and a new set of unit cards for your faction.

They will apparently release new faction based books too (instead of event books as they did in Mark 1) along the same lines as The Pirate book. But buying those is mainly about art and fluff and knowing what your opponents can field. To play your army all you really need is the new version of the base rules and new deck of unit cards for your faction.

Supposedly the new rules will simplify the stat profiles considerbly, beef up the jacks stats, stop jacks being disabled when they lose too many columns, and get rid of the differing troop formations in favor of in and out of formation rules.

___________________________________

As I understand it (I may be wrong) the new format intended for Mark II is :

Main Rules Book "Warmachine Prime Mk 2"
This will have comprehensive rules including new versions of the rules introduced in Escalation, Superiority, Apotheosis, and Legends

Comprehensive faction books (pretty much codexes) will follow soon after:
Mercs and Allies, Khador, Menoth, Cryx, Cygnar, any new factions or subfactions like Pirates, Scyran Retribution, maybe Cyriss or Llael resistance, etc.

___________________________________

PP will do the same for Hordes next.

Hordes Mk II
Combining newly revised versions of the rules intorduced in Evolution and the soon to release Metamorphosis

Faction Books: Minions, Trollkin, Circle, Everblight, Skorne, etc.

Clearly they WANT you to go out and rebuy all the books but are not forcing you too. They will make it possible to get by with only a new ruleseet and faction cards.

____________________________________

After this refresh, supposedly the new plot/event books will follow, advancing the storyline, adding new units for every faction, and possibly following a NEW set of central characters. This will be more like the books we are used to.

Okay, I'm calling bull**** on this.. The WHOLE reason I got into Hordes was because I didn't want to buy a new rulebook every 4 years... Unlike 40k where I was on my 3rd $50.00 book..

I dont know about points.. Maybe that is a good thing. Re-doing the points for units, characters, jacks/beasts and all that is okay... but do they really need a new rulebook? What's wrong with the current rules? I like the fact that it's simple. I learned it by just watching a few games.

I dont want to loose the different formations. Different fractions(at least hordes) benifit from being in a different formation. My Ravengers work best in skirmish formation, and their abilities with the Shaman work up to 3". Why would I want the basic "open" formation?

I understand that Warmachine has been out for 6 years, but Hordes is still a baby.. do we really need a Mk II also? I guess if they change up everything in Warmachine, they have to do it for Hordes too..

It's going to be really sad if I have to hang up Hordes because PP wanted to be like GW... And buying Fraction Cards.. if you're going to change the rules up on me, change my points value, and still say you're looking at for my best interest, then let me send you a list of the cards I need and you give them to me for free... I own 3 Warpwolfs.. Am I going to have to buy 3 decks for Circle to get 3 Warpwolf cards, or will they sale them individual? It leaves alot open.. I guess we'll see what happens.. I wont make my judgement until the smoke clears though....

Silverwarrior88 wrote:I own 3 Warpwolfs.. Am I going to have to buy 3 decks for Circle to get 3 Warpwolf cards, or will they sale them individual?

When they released "Mk.2" decks for Warmachine they contained enough cards for models that had unrestricted Field Allowance. I assume that the new "Mk. II" decks will be similiar in that aspect.

Also, I mark damage grids on paper printed out by an army builder program.

Warmachine and Hordes are supposed to be compatible so to maintain that if Warmachine gets revised the Hordes has to get revised as well.

The actual rules will change (probably mostly centered onstreamlining play, avoidance of seeming contradictions in special rules, and elimination of special abilities that do almost the same thing.) with Mark 2. Whether it's for the better or worse is very hard to say at this point. Whether it leads to a more complicated game, a dumbed down game, or a game that feels the same or bettr yet plays faster and with fewer hiccups is yet to be determined.

Also we've already had replacement faction decks twice now so another one isn't really much of a big deal. If you don't like it then find someone with the new cards and scan them or print some out from an army builder program (assuming that apps like Armies of Immoren get updated).

Out of everything I posted, everyone keyed in on the Card problem.. I feel like it was a waste in breath.

The game play, IMHO, is just fine. Yes we have several rules that contradict one another, but every game has that. That's why they have errata.

My biggest fear is that when you re-do game rules, you have to continue to re-do them because new problems pop up all the time. You can never get rid of any tweaks, unless you run everything exactly the same, have no special rules for different units, characters, or jacks/beasts.

I just dont want to pour alot into a game that will dig itself into a hole. I've bought everything the Circle has, with the exception of one unit and it's UA. I just dont want to ebay all my stuff at the end of April because of this.. That's all I was saying..

Silverwarrior: It's an unfortunate fact that new editions drive sales. That's why they are produced in truth. A game that doesn't release new stuff is stagnant. A stagnant game is a dead game.

Silverwarrior88 wrote:Out of everything I posted, everyone keyed in on the Card problem.. I feel like it was a waste in breath.

The game play, IMHO, is just fine. Yes we have several rules that contradict one another, but every game has that. That's why they have errata.

My biggest fear is that when you re-do game rules, you have to continue to re-do them because new problems pop up all the time. You can never get rid of any tweaks, unless you run everything exactly the same, have no special rules for different units, characters, or jacks/beasts.

I just dont want to pour alot into a game that will dig itself into a hole. I've bought everything the Circle has, with the exception of one unit and it's UA. I just dont want to ebay all my stuff at the end of April because of this.. That's all I was saying..

I don't think it's going to be a hole. It should turn out just right.

If anything, you'll have April to see if you like where the rules are going.

I'll buy Metamorphosis when it comes out and I'll continue to complete my Circle collection and add to my Cryx collection.

I'm not worried about the change for two reasons.
First, everything is being repointed and reworked, and no models are being written out of the game. Everything I have will still be usable in some form and I won't have any need to buy new models, only new rules/cards.

Second, if it turns out to be crap, I still have all my 1st edition stuff and can use it as I see fit. There is so much 1st edition stuff out there that I'll never run out of new things to try even if they never release a new compatible model starting today. That's the beauty of the multi-faction books up to this point. I already have the 1st edition rules on hand for every-freaking-single model that they have released to date.

I'll probably only buy the Menoth Paint set and work on the Battle Box I bought before the announcement, and hold off on expanding to a full army until after 2.0 is out.

It means my FoW spending will likely increase in the interim though.

Remember the old adage; No one is making you play the new game! You can keep playing with old rules and cards FOREVER (Why I still occasionally play Warzone, VOID and Vor) if you want.

Hell I played a game of 1st Edition Space Hulk a few weeks ago... and that game hasn't been in production in almost 20 years.

I go on vacation for one week and this happens. After reading through everything, I understand what PP is trying to do and hope that this works for Warmachine. I'm just worried that the interactive balancing system will result in a bunch of chuckleheads getting something reasonable nerfed because they can't adapt to it.

It's starting to sound like everything is pretty much done, and so this is just
going to be really a quality assurance/PR test. We'll see in April.

You want to try the new stuff, oomie?

I will be spending less, because I play Hordes, and have to wait until later in the year to get my release.

As it is, my Trolls are so far on the back burner they could catch on fire and I might not know for a week...

Warmachine Player: "There's a new edition and everything will change! I'll be forced to buy a new book!How dare they!"

Warhammer Player: "What, are you new here?"

Personally, I don't play PP games. I hear it's a great system, but it's going to change editions every so often, like any other SUCCESSFUL wargame. The wargames that don;t update and remain current and viable are the ones that die. PP has, so far, been proactive and responsive to their customers. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Relax, breathe deep. Relish the new tactical challenges inherant in the new system when it comes out. It's just a game.

Silverwarrior88 wrote:The game play, IMHO, is just fine. Yes we have several rules that contradict one another, but every game has that. That's why they have errata.

What I've understood after reading the FAQ is that they are going to seriously try to change the balance in WM to get more powerful Jacks opposed to the current situation where the jacks are not as effective as infantry. This is something which cannot be done with FAQ, as the changes need to be done in several levels in rules and point values. If this change brings the jacks back to the front I'm all for it as the big machines are reason I begun to play WM.

Another nice change they are discussing is to standardize a lot of the special rules like "Spider Legs" and "Sea Legs" and "No Sleeping on the Job" into one: "Immune: Knockdown" rule. It always irked me that "Gunfighter" worked differently for Caine, eCaine's elite cadre, Black 13th, and Holt.

This will hopefully let them keep the models suitably complicated without resorting to 2pt fonts and multiple cards for a single unit (Black 13th again).

I don't personally feel like (the newer) jacks need that much help vs. infantry. So I hope they don't go overboard. It would be just as bad to see every army with Darius/Kraye, Karchev, Reznik, and Mortenebra with nothing but jacks.