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Question

I love the chaos spawn minis. They are just icky warpy.

What are thoughts on using them as counts as bloodcrushers?

Advantages
*They are half price.
*They are way cool minis and each one is unique.
*Similar size.
*Bloodcrushers are not modelled as swift so simlar in terms of representing tough killy goodness.

Disadvantages
*Not bloodcrushers themselves.

Thoughts.
I should say this would be for friendly gaming and potentially leagues. Theoreticaly for tournament but unlikely as I'm not into tourneys at this time due to time contraints.

Have blood letters ride on their backs

well i use chaos knights as my Blood crushers. (cheapo! i know)

first problem with spawn is, their base! a probably a few millimeters off the height, but other than that its fine!

PS: I use spawns as fiends.

I think it could work fine.
It might even be cheaper if you buy the CSM tide of spawn for apocalypse judging on how many you're going to need. It's one of the few apoc sets that GW still offers from the initial release.

I'm going to be converting spawns into obliterators for my Nurgle army so I have no problem with anybody using the models to represent something else.

I was also going to suggest chaos knights, but maybe switching the riders to be bloodletters.

Go for it,

Lucas

lucas wrote:I think it could work fine.
It might even be cheaper if you buy the CSM tide of spawn for apocalypse judging on how many you're going to need. It's one of the few apoc sets that GW still offers from the initial release.

I'm going to be converting spawns into obliterators for my Nurgle army so I have no problem with anybody using the models to represent something else.

I was also going to suggest chaos knights, but maybe switching the riders to be bloodletters.

Go for it,

Lucas

i bought the tide of spawn, its such a great deal, and sold the CSM.

I do not like this idea, because I do not think it is right to use one model from a codex to represent a different model from the same codex.

I know that the 'counts as' rule exists, but I think that even it has stipulations that say if a model represents something in a codex, then it cannot count as something else from the same codex. That's just confusing for an opponent, and not a good use of the rule, in my opinion.

there's no chaos spawn entry in the daemon codex anyway. so i doubt it would be confused in a daemon army.

Redbeard wrote:I do not like this idea, because I do not think it is right to use one model from a codex to represent a different model from the same codex.

I know that the 'counts as' rule exists, but I think that even it has stipulations that say if a model represents something in a codex, then it cannot count as something else from the same codex. That's just confusing for an opponent, and not a good use of the rule, in my opinion.

I agree that one item should not replace another item in the same codex. However, Enmitee is correct. There is no spawn entry in the demon codex. Would that change your opinion?

Drop Bloodletters on there backs like what was previously mentioned and i'd say jobs a good 'un.

Would you paint them like bloodbeasts?

Frazzled wrote:
I agree that one item should not replace another item in the same codex. However, Enmitee is correct. There is no spawn entry in the demon codex. Would that change your opinion?

There is no spawn entry, however, the spawn profile and rules are part of the Chaos Daemon codex, as spawns can be created via the 'Turn you into a spawn' psychic power.

I think that this case is too close. The spawn is part of the Chaos line as its own distinct thing. If you wanted to put bloodletters on the backs of cold ones, no problem. If you wanted to put bloodletters on chaos knight horsies, no problem. If you wanted to have them riding tau crisis suits, I don't care. Those are all things that are obviously something not from the chaos realm. Spawn, on the other hand, they're already chaos. I don't think they're a good choice for the task.

Either have Bloodletters riding on them or maybe get rid of the Bloodletter's legs and have them fused to the spawn or emerging from them.

or or or, blood letter head or armor plates on to them to identify their role. Spawns giving bloodletters a piggy back ride just looks silly!

enmitee wrote:or or or, blood letter head or armor plates on to them to identify their role. Spawns giving bloodletters a piggy back ride just looks silly!

Yeah I think armor plating is definitely required to make them bulkier and well more crushy.

and you can NOT over do the mutations,

I love the mutations...

I like the idea of putting brass armor on them, and having it look like it is being absorbed into their flesh. Bonus points for modeling it to look like World Eaters armor, to give the impression that your bloodcrusher/spawn was once a Berzerker Daemon Prince that lost himself.

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with here! I was thinking of putting some metally spawn in my LatD army as Possessed Machines (Killakans). Post some pics!

Thats an interesting idea actually.

If you're not into tournies, it's less of a problem. If you converted them to NOT look like Spawn, even better. Yes, the base model will always be 'spawnish', but doing some conversion work - armor, a bloodletter on their back, loads of Khorne symbols, a base of skulls, etc. - would make look different enough from any Spawn to make it work.

To be honest I've never actually seen anyone put spawn on a table besides myself.

it's a bad idea if your army will also contain spawn models counting as spawn, but fine otherwise.

Certainly, make them look as bloodcrusher-ish as possible and as un-spawn-ish as possible to reduce confusion. So lots of Khorney bits, obviously. Hmm, how about using Berserker bits, representing Khorne 'blessing' (or punishing) Berserkers by turning them into bloodcrushers?

Redbeard wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
I agree that one item should not replace another item in the same codex. However, Enmitee is correct. There is no spawn entry in the demon codex. Would that change your opinion?

There is no spawn entry, however, the spawn profile and rules are part of the Chaos Daemon codex, as spawns can be created via the 'Turn you into a spawn' psychic power.

I think that this case is too close. The spawn is part of the Chaos line as its own distinct thing. If you wanted to put bloodletters on the backs of cold ones, no problem. If you wanted to put bloodletters on chaos knight horsies, no problem. If you wanted to have them riding tau crisis suits, I don't care. Those are all things that are obviously something not from the chaos realm. Spawn, on the other hand, they're already chaos. I don't think they're a good choice for the task.

There are no psychic stuff in the deamon codex they are all shooting attacks they don't roll for psy tests because they are deamons.

The big thing is base size. You need to mount the spawn on 60mm bases if you're planning to use them as bloodcrushers.

Additionally, you should probably do something to rep iron hide.

You're not using LOTR horses or 40mm bases, that's cool.

I think you would need Bloodletters riding the Spawn, to make the conversion clear to the opponent.

Some additional conversion work to show the metalness would be good.

5xboxes of spawn.
1xboxes of bloodletters.
Not cheap but cheaper!
Would love to see it done well!

Tide of Spawn, 1 box of Bloodletters.

love the idea, add some armour and its a good un


also, about the whole "using a model to proxy another" thing:

they will look different.
i highly doubt you will use boon of mutation to make 8 or so of them.
they do NOT form a unt, no matter how many you make using boon.
and with letters riding them it is 100% clear since they are the only mounted khorne unit available.

If you can swap for extra khorne heads I think it would be a great looking unit.

dietrich wrote:If you're not into tournies, it's less of a problem. If you converted them to NOT look like Spawn, even better. Yes, the base model will always be 'spawnish', but doing some conversion work - armor, a bloodletter on their back, loads of Khorne symbols, a base of skulls, etc. - would make look different enough from any Spawn to make it work.

/agreed.

It's been my experience that the further away from the original you make it look, the more likely GW will let you "Get away with it". So if you're thinking of joining any sanctioned tournaments, make sure you do a BANG UP paint job on it.

If you're playing with just friends...shoot, no worries, eh?

I once watched 2 old friends play "Green army men" vs. "Nickels".