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Hey guys just as the title says I've been thinking about what on Earth you could do if you were fighting a Nightbringer or similar overpowered special character. Can nightbringers and deceivers be run in less than 1500 point games (I usually play 1000 points). My chaos army incorporates lash of submission so I could force it to move back or make my opponent phase out, but once it gets in combat there's no way to really hurt it, even power fists need a 4+ to wound and with its high strength powerful weapons like the meltagun and battlecannon need 4's to wound Post your thoughts here and I'm interested in knowing about the specific rules of using special characters in games

whoops I meant toughness

Ignore him and kill the "necrons". Force the phase out and you don't have to worry about it.

The best way to kill a C'tan is by shooting it. Since you have lash I assume you also have some obliterators. As you said keep lashing it back and shoot it with lascannons. You will have to wound it ten times statiscally to kill it. So if you had nine obliterators that would require this much shooting:

one turn of shooting - 9 shots, 6 hit, 4 wounds, 2 saves

So basically three turns of shooting.

G

Lash will basically keep him out the game the entire battle.

Of course if he is using a C-Tan in under 1000 pts, his phase out number will be low. You can easily just lash his necrons into groups and either Battlecannon them or charge and run down. Chaos has a huge advantage against necrons.

C'tan are slow, and can't use transports of any kind. Keep away and kill the Necrons.

Other options include Ghazghkull Thraka, Inquisitional force weapons(DH and WH force weapons ignore the eternal warrior rule, thanks to some really outdated rules. Pretty much the only positive DH gets from being so old), lots of big guns, and tying it up in CC against large, expendable units.

Autocannons, heavy bolters and the like. Anything that can wound it and has multiple shots. If you're determined enough, the nightbringer really doesn't take all that much to kill. Lascannons are meh, because they're so expensive. Autocannons are much more efficient.

Ah so if I run 3 defilers should I use the reaper autocannons on the nightbringer? Or would my turns be better invested in going for phase-out?

AdeptSister wrote:Lash will basically keep him out the game the entire battle.

Of course if he is using a C-Tan in under 1000 pts, his phase out number will be low. You can easily just lash his necrons into groups and either Battlecannon them or charge and run down. Chaos has a huge advantage against necrons.

I disagree. He has a str 9 ap 2 assault 1 24" weapon. Assuming you can move into lash range & move him more than 6" w/ 2d6 every turn, (avarge is 7") then yes, he wont be able to advance close enough to the sorc to fire/assault things. This tactic/theory will also require you to have a gunline in-line this point (otherwise this C'tan could charge things within 12")

Like Uriels_flame said, ignore this guy & annhilate the 'necron' models.

Also.. shooting 9 oblits at 1 c'tan is actually quite an advantageous situation for the necron player, even more so if it requires the use of the choas sorc aswell, as that player is now implementing roughly 800pts worth against 360pts over three turns.

So in regards to the OP.. ignore said special unit for the entire game or if that isnt practicle.. tie it up with as few points as posssible for aslong as possible. If its a crazy force-multipler (and killing it will remove that ability) kill it as quick as, otherwise refer to the first two points.

Go for phase out. The Necron player wants you to attack Nightbringer. Get some decent mobility and you can evade him entirely. At this points level he'll either lack an orb of resurrection or be limited to two squads of warriors.

snipers are especially good, seeing as they can see him as he is 'above all others' so therefore cannot join a unit, and they always wound on a 4+, i think... also poisoned attacks are good

Genrally speaking, I agree with ignoring the C'tan and killing the warriors.

But, in my newest Loota heavy ork list, I just shoot him to death turn one (maybe 2 if the dice are against me)and watch my opponent cry

Necrons have phase our for a reason

Use your lash to group the necron warriors together, and use blast weapons to make him phase out, or lash him closer and assault. The C'tan are slow, you can avoid 'em for even a few turns, and you should have gotten the warriors to a low enough number to make him phase out.

The Nightbringer is not as slow as he used to be, since now he can "run" like everybody else.

Shooting from afar is the best bet. Snipers have indeed proven effective in this regard.

As stated, do not waste too much attention on him, avoid if possible and focus on the "necron" units for phase out. Never forget your mission objectives.

utan wrote:The Nightbringer is not as slow as he used to be, since now he can "run" like everybody else.

Yes, but if he's running, he's neither shooting NOR assaulting, so is actually easier to ignore(especially if your army is even the slightest bit mobile).

Just lay into whatever models he has that are "Necrons" and force a Phase Out.

i agree with the phase out tactic, as a necron player, i know that the nightbringer is another 20 warriors that you dont need to concentrate on and take out, and the nightbringer cannot come back

Wait untile the next necron codex when they make the nightbringer apocalypse only.

Ah Necrons... Such a handy army to fight against, since each and every tactical question can be answered with "Ignore whatever the issue is and just kill models that count to phase out."

But on to the broader question: How to best drop a high toughness model (Wraithlords come to mind).

A lot depends on the army you play, but I might make a plug for the humble Autocannon (along with at least one prior poster). Cheap, plenty of shots, often mounted in twin-linked fashion. Useful against anything but the AV 14'ers (but really only effective against models with a toughness characteristic and AV 12 or less). Squeezing in a few of these can really be great for backing up a high toughness-counter army. If you're Tau, missile pods work the same (and are easy to get lots of).

Cheers.

The best way to kill a C'tan is to ignore it to death.
Shoot the warriors instead of wasting your shooting on big, tough things.

Uriels_Flame wrote:Ignore him and kill the "necrons". Force the phase out and you don't have to worry about it.

That's easy to say until the Necron player forces you to deal with a Nightrbinger or Monolith. Its all too easy to keep your Necron models out of harms way. Even a semi-experienced player will either hide them far far away while positioning other, more durable units, in your way or just keep them in reserve and have them wander on somewhere far away from the battle. Even in a objective mission he just needs to get a Wraith,Scarab, Destroyer or H. Destroyer, a Teleporting Lord or a Deepstriking Mono within 3' of your objective preventing you from claiming it.

Take a Tri-Lith build for example, if he positioning his Liths in a triangular shaped shield he can 100% protect his models from everything except indirect fire. He can shuffle the Liths as needed or tele them to the other side to avoid a horde.

Or take a list using 1 Mono and a CTan, he can simply place the Ctan behind the Lith and now you can't shoot him all the while he advances across the board.

Skulltaker can lop his head off.

enmitee wrote:Skulltaker can lop his head off.

QFT

I think having Lash seals the deal for going after the Necrons instead. It is true that you can easily position C'tan or Monoliths in between the opponents and your Warriors, but it's much harder to do against double lash. If you're within 24" of one of his Warrior squads lash em so they can either be instakilled by weapons (since they'll be out of res orb range) or assaulted if you roll decently for their movement.

If I absolutly have to deal with him... Power Klaw to the face! str 9 on the charge hurts everything xD

same as with a monolith, ignore it.
make a small unit as a speed bump to throw at him if he gets too close, but just focus all shots on the warriors.
9 oblits should make short work of them.


Edit:

If I absolutly have to deal with him... Power Klaw to the face! str 9 on the charge hurts everything xD

erm, great, im sure you may average a wound per turn with a S9 klaw
thats if the nob / boss doesent get killed 1st.
about the best klaw in an ork army would be ghaz, use the waaagh! move for that fixed 2+ save and he should last out and possibly even win lol.

Nightbringer ignores invul sves just checked. and yes they can be IDed

ok, that will teach me for not owning the crons dex
can he still die from instant death? (via skulltakers special rules?)


Edit: stop changing your mind! XD

Nightbringer ignores invul saves just checked. and yes they can be IDed


Copy pasted from post above with corrections.

sweet
means skulltaker stands a good chance against him, other than that, run away very quickly and ignore him

JD21290 wrote:sweet
means skulltaker stands a good chance against him, other than that, run away very quickly and ignore him

He would still get his save of 4+, but you do pose a intresting query.

Skulltaker has INT 5 and Str 4-5, with a WS of 7. Normally this would mean (on the charge) he gets 5-6 which hit on 3, and then he would need a 4+ to rend, which would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 wounds. The Nightbringer has INT 4 so all this would take place before he got to go. If the Nightbringer makes his saves then Skulltaker goes SPLAT as the Nightbringer fights back.

If the Nightbringer charges him then it increases his chance to survive.

But if the Skulltaker were to fight the Deciver then its a whole different story. Since the deceiver refuses to be charged this would mean he will always get the charge giving him 6 attacks on the charge needing 4 to hit and 2's to wound. Skulltaker goes at the same time and will fight back giving the same chances as survival of the Nightbringer, except if Skulltaker was to fight the Deceiver he will always end up dying unless the Necronplayer just whiffs, whereas he stands a decent chance of surviving if Fighting a Nightbringer who fails 1 save.