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Dear experienced Dakkaists!)
Please help a beginner Chaosite defeat an Eldar amy! We (as a couple) are collectors, but have never played an actual game before

The opponent: (Know Thy Enemy! )
Farseer (with Doom)
10 Avengers + Exarch (Storm of Blades) in a Wave Serpent
2 Walkers + scatter lasers
6 Scorpions + Exarch (Claw)
6 Scouts

The question is - how do we kill it??
We've tried to put up smth like this:
Us
HQ: Sorcerer (Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission)
Troops: 5 Noise Marines + Blastmaster
9 CSM + Champion, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Mark of Nurgle
HS: Defiler
Obliterator

The trouble is, the opponent has way too many atttacks for this(
We're trying to collect some heavy artillery to counter this, but...

We used to think the Eldar army was all about expensive models and fine tactics, but @750 it looks like the other way round)

So, any tips are appreciated)
This is our first army, so please dont judge too harshly)

Its a friendly game, not a tournament, so no restrictions aside from points

Thanks)

In smaller battles you need numbers.
I'd start with 2x 10 CSM with autocannons and IoGC.
No need for Cult Marines or fancy marks/icons.
I'd add a plain DP that should be used defensively against the outflanking Scorpions.
The rest is personal preference.

thanks)
but wouldnt simple CSM be too fragile against the opponent's shooty army? the Wave Serpent in this case contains enough attacks to wipe out any tactical. so it would be better to lose a smaller squad... or i'm wrong here?

Well, I would be inclined to take 3 x 10 CS Marines plus the DP.
Just play defensely and target the Warwalkers first. Three autocannons should do serious damage or at least stun them.
In the meanwhile the Serpent might arrive. Bladestorming DA can decimate a CSM squad but not annihilate it. In your turn, your bolters should wipe out the DA unit.
When the Scorpions arrive, you have the DP for counter charging.

As mentioned, a Daemon Prince (preferably with Warptime, if you can) is amazing.

Numbers are a big deal here and Noise Marines are incredibly expensive. Dropping those for normal CSM (Icon of Khorne would be good but not completely necessary... crushing Eldar in melee is fun).

Get rid of that single Obliterator and spend the points on more CSM or wargear for them. I suggest Flamers.

Defiler is a great choice. I'd give it the extra close combat weapons for 5 attacks in melee since you'll probably be firing his battlecannon most of the time.

Terminators aren't too bad either... you can take a unit of 3 of them with 2 combi flamers and 1 heavy flamer for 105 points. Deep strike them in beside some pesky Eldar and set them on fire .

On a side note, I never take heavy weapons in regular CSM squads. You'll just have 9 dudes sitting there looking goofy while one guy shoots his Lascannon... and misses. Smaller squads with assault weapons or specialty units are the way to go.

There's just a few suggestions you can use if you so desire. Good luck!

On a side note, I never take heavy weapons in regular CSM squads.

Well, 3 autocannons, 6 shots, 4 hits, 2 penetrating hits against the Warwalkers. Not bad.

wuestenfux wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:On a side note, I never take heavy weapons in regular CSM squads.

Well, 3 autocannons, 6 shots, 4 hits, 2 penetrating hits against the Warwalkers. Not bad.

Granted that's not bad but that's 3 units that are not moving, firing only 1 of 10 weapons (at range) and leaving everything else alone. The biggest problem is the not moving part. That's why specialty units are much more efficient. Even if you took 5 Havocs with 2 Autocannons, youre not wasting as much and your troop choices still have the mobility that they require. You could even stick them in a Rhino for added protection since you can fire 2 weapons out of a Rhino.

Troops are needed elsewhere... hanging back and firing 1 weapon a turn isnt as useful as it could be (unless they're already sitting on an objective).

Granted that's not bad but that's 3 units that are not moving, firing only 1 of 10 weapons (at range) and leaving everything else alone. The biggest problem is the not moving part.

This is NOT the tactics. They don't move in the first two rounds until the Warwalkers are downed.

That's still 12" of movement (not including potential assaults) that are wasted, since you could easily spend the points on Havocs (for example) and have them doing the shooting, thus freeing up your Troops to do what they are supposed to be doing. Mind you this is all personal preference and how you play is not how I play, and vise versa

Havocs in 750 pt games?
If you take a squad of five and they get a full volley from the guided Warwalkers, they will eventually get annihilated.

A note on taking icons with your vanilla CSMs... you may want to look at the points difference between your setup and the cult marines. A lot of times, the points are more efficient, not to mention you get fearless already built in. The only thing you're giving up, effectively, is a heavy weapon selection, which can be offset by taking your heavy weapons in a less stable (but IMHO, quite fun and amusing) platform... Like a dreadnought.

Sure, you may end up having it do things you don't want it to do, but, hey, if we didn't want to leave SOME things up to a roll of the dice, we'd shave off all the detail work from our minis and paint them blue.

Chaos Sorcerer
w/Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime, Bolt of Change, Doombolt

Chaos Space Marine Squad
10 Marines with Flamethrower, Autocannon

Chaos Space Marine Squad
10 Marines with Flamethrower, Autocannon

Chaos Havoc Squad
5 Marines with two Autocannons

Chaos Havoc Squad
5 Marines with two Autocannons

The Sorcerer needs to join a squad of Havocs and head off the Striking Scorpions when/where they show up. Doombolt is actually pretty good against those Eldar, denying their armour save (3D6, 2+, 2+, AP3), while Bolt of Change will hit vehicles hard (AP1), and Warptime will ensure these shooting attacks hit and some defense against the Striking Scorpions when they show up. The improved Invulnerable saving throw should also help.

The Havocs lay down the juice on the Wave Serpent first, and War Walkers second. Remember to set them up way back in your deployment zone so that their 48" range protects them somewhat. Once the Wave Serpent is dead, and the War Walkers are wiped out, focus fire on the Dire Avengers.

The Chaos Space Marines are equipped to shoot up the Warwalkers first with their Autocannons, and then advance to use their Flamethrowers on the Scouts. They have lots of bodies to suck up wounds, and while they can't match the Dire Avengers combined with Doom and Bladestorm, they have longer range and superior close combat - don't try to hang around at that middle distance!

Nurglitch has a nice variant of my army idea.

Generally, I'd take a DP. But against Scorpions a Sorcerer eventually suffices since the Exarch has only an S6 power fist and so cannot instantly kill the Sorcerer.

Plus, a Sorcerer hiding in a squad of Chaos Space Marines is less likely to get drilled by the Warwalker's Scatter Lasers in the 1st/2nd turns.

Nurglitch wrote: Doombolt is actually pretty good against those Eldar, denying their armour save (3D6, 2+, 2+, AP3)

I am assuming the 3d6 was meant to be the Psychic test for the Sorc. Isn't that supposed to be 2d6 or am I missing some crazy rule about the Sorc?

Doombolts are Assault 3 weapons.

I knew they were Assault 3, the 3d6 notation made me first think of one giant 3-18 roll instead of three seperate d6 rolls

You need rhinos. The scorpions and dire avengers can't touch your marines if they're in a rhino, and YOU get to choose when you disembark for greater firepower. The only things he has which can bust the rhinos are scatter lasers, which would be more devastating against the unit inside of the rhino anyways, and whatever he has on the serpent. Put the havoc squads in Nurglich's list into rhinos (I'd suggest trimming the sorcerer down to 0 upgrades to purchase two of them) and watch your opponent cry as those he takes a full extra turn at the minimum to try to deal with each of those squads.

Thanks all for your valuable advice!)
We ended up taking smth close to Nurglitch's list. We lost that game mostly because it was our first time and we didnt keep all the rules in our head ("what, immobilize is for 1 turn only?" )
The opponent's list also varied from the one we mentioned in the beginning, AND he was lucky with the dice - 1 squad of Scorpions managed to cut down 2 Tacticals and the Havocs lost the duel to Rangers.
After that we changed sides - we took the Eldar (v. post 1), he played Chaos, mission was Annihilate, and in spite of some fatal mistakes, we won! 18 attacks from War Walkers to 1 poor wounded Chaos Lord was bloody) The Wave Serpent stuck in the middle of the field and survived five turns under heavy fire from 2 Obliterators and a missile launcher - permanently immobilised))
All-in-all, imho, Eldar are closer to being cheaters since they proved to be lethal even in the hands of one not too familiar with the rules - or was it perhaps because the one had a clearer idea of what to do with them?)
Thank you all again who posted in this topic) We're off to drill the rules

Honestly... my chaos haven't lost to Eldar for a very long time. Even in 4th ed, when Eldar were king of the mole-hill, I won about 3/4 of my game against Eldar, mechanized or otherwise.

Right now, Eldar are slight underdogs, but luck always plays a factor in these things, so you can't really say for sure whether one build has a distinct advantage against others.