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Ok usually I run rough shod over 90% of people with this list. So if you had to build a list to counter it what would you build? Im curious to see if there are lists out there that I havent played against, which I could have people try out against my army.

HQ. Mad dok (usually ran with the 30 ard boys)
Big mek KFF (used with the kans to keep them running)

Elite 15 lootas

troops

total of 140 boys (30 shootas with 3 rokkits, 20 shootas with 2 rokiits, 30 ard boys, 60 choppa boys, all units have nobs with PK and eavy armor)

Kans x5 3 with KMB and 2 with RL or grot zookas

thats at 2000 points at 1750 I drop a kan and 20 shoota boyz

typically the kans form up in the front with the boys behind the KFF gives the kan a 4+ cover save and all the boys behind get a 4+ from the kans.

lootas do what lootas do.

the mad dok and the ard boys usually get stuck in the middle of the other boys so I can funnel them where I need them to go (block off there movement)

so Ive faced a ton of armies but like I said Im looking for unique armiy lists I havent played against so I can play against them. Thanks in advance.

I use a lot, and I mean a LOT of outflanking genestealers. That with barbed strangler fexes to take down hordes and light vehicles. I also wonder how well you do against imperial guard and all their big heavy weapons. How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

Land Raider spam, Mech Eldar spamming Fire Prisms, template-spam Nids, properly balanced Nidzilla dropping S8 templates, so ignore those feel no pain rolls, Sisters of Battle and endless Heavy Bolters, etc. etc. etc...

While some people may not have figured out how to handle a board full of walking orks, it really isn't too difficult. I'd probably let you deploy first, then give you a denied flank so half of your walking army is useless while I whittle away at the nearest horde. Nothing in your list is fast by any means, so turtling up in a corner is very viable.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

There is only 1 unit in the game that accurately fits that description. And that is lootas.

Tau w/Pathfinders

DW. I have beat a simalar list before with my DW. You just can't bring your forces to bair against me I am too small of an elite force.

1.) Start with : 15 Lootas
2.) Then add: Trukk boys to tie up the cans.
3.) Blend with:2 Wagons full of Burnas to torch the Dok and Co.
4.) Season to taste with:: Big Mek w/KFF and Burna for cover saves on the trukks/wagons
5.) Serve.

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

There is only 1 unit in the game that accurately fits that description. And that is lootas.

You don't get out much, do you?

Vulkan He'stan @ 190 Pts

10 Tactical Squad @ 205 Pts
Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino

10 Tactical Squad @ 205 Pts
Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino

5 Scout Squad @ 100 Pts
Sniper Rifle x4; Missile Launcher; Camo Cloaks

10 Terminator Assault Squad @ 400 Pts
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield x10

1 Dreadnought @ 115 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer; DCCW

1 Dreadnought @ 115 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer; DCCW

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer

1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer

Land Raider Redeemer @ 265 Pts
Multi-Melta; Extra Armour

Land Raider Redeemer @ 265 Pts
Multi-Melta; Extra Armour


Mmmmmm, toasty.

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

There is only 1 unit in the game that accurately fits that description. And that is lootas.

How about the basic tau rifle? 30" S5... I think that'd take a lot out of most anything. Or 10 heavy weapon platforms from an imperial gunline with 2 demolisher cannons and 3 HB's from a few leman russ'? I think that would accurately fit the description I gave.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

There is only 1 unit in the game that accurately fits that description. And that is lootas.

How about the basic tau rifle? 30" S5... I think that'd take a lot out of most anything. Or 10 heavy weapon platforms from an imperial gunline with 2 demolisher cannons and 3 HB's from a few leman russ'? I think that would accurately fit the description I gave.

1. You said 'unit'. Not 'multiple units firing at one target'. Therefore your 2nd example is pretty moot. And yeah, I will admit my experience against IG is minimal.

2. Basic tau rifle? Its 1 shot @ 30 inches. Thats not "volume of fire" IMO. And I would not consider S5 to be 'high strength'

@ Fatal_Grace

I actually do. I just dont happen to play a whole lot of armies with any units that fit that description, with the exception of orks.

However, I still stand by what I say.

And about the tau pathfinders, I dont play against any tau players that use pathfinders. Its always either suits or Mech. :[

When there's 3 units of 12 firewarriors shooting @ 30" your orks will die. They'll die in droves before they get anywhere close to the enemy if you're footslogging.

At 12" you'll be facing 72 S5 shots from just 1 squad of firewarriors. That's the equivalent of 24 heavy bolters. Even if it's one unit shooting at one unit that's 24 S5 shots per squad. Say 50% hit you have 12 wounds and a 66% chance of wounding with a 33% chance of saving if the big mek is nearby. And if he's not you'll have 8 dead boyz on average.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
At 12" you'll be facing 72 S5 shots from just 1 squad of firewarriors. That's the equivalent of 24 heavy bolters. Even if it's one unit shooting at one unit that's 24 S5 shots per squad. Say 50% hit you have 12 wounds and a 66% chance of wounding with a 33% chance of saving if the big mek is nearby. And if he's not you'll have 8 dead boyz on average.

I think at 12" he already Waaaaghed your face off. Regardless, Firewarriors would still crumble if any of them decided to not run away.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:When there's 3 units of 12 firewarriors shooting @ 30" your orks will die. They'll die in droves before they get anywhere close to the enemy if you're footslogging.

At 12" you'll be facing 72 S5 shots from just 1 squad of firewarriors. That's the equivalent of 24 heavy bolters. Even if it's one unit shooting at one unit that's 24 S5 shots per squad. Say 50% hit you have 12 wounds and a 66% chance of wounding with a 33% chance of saving if the big mek is nearby. And if he's not you'll have 8 dead boyz on average.

1. 72 shots from ONE squad? No.

2. One unit shooting would be 12 shots @ 30 inches. Tau basic rifles do NOT fire 2 shots base.

3. Using the ACTUAL number of shots, that would be 72 shots from all of them in 12 inches, in which 36 will hit and 24 will wound, and chances are he will get a cover save, since he is orks and its NOT hard to finagle your way into one, which means 12 wounds. Thats 360 points MINIMUM doing 72 points of damage against slugga boys. Thats not good.

4. Taking into consideration logic, there is not an amazing chance of you getting into rapid fire range of orks without them charging you. Its actually a little less than half.

My tau friend wishes tau fire warriors were that useful.

I fought almost this exact list. I run a balanced marine list. Cans were screening the troops. Shot at the ones closest to troops and a 6 on a couple of pens and lotta dead boys in the explosions. I had lots of rocket launchers firing frag, heavy bolters and finally flamers when he was close. Game ended in a draw as time was limited. He had little left on the table. I had almost everything. Trick is movement and combined firepower. Templates and blasts are your friend. It is not that hard to beat if you have a balanced list. If you are all shooty, assaulty or all speed you are gonna have a hard time with this list. Was very fun to play against and look forward to another game vs it. The lists were a tiny bit different but not much.

Of course firewarriors are going to run away! That's their job... And you're right, it's 24 shots from 1 squad within doubletap range, that was supposed to be from 3 squads.

With another 6" on their guns you'll still be losing lots of little green men before you even get to waaaagh. And in this discussion no one is talking about all the tanks and broadsides and suits and everything else that's shooting at you from 48 and 72". From your list it seems that you have absolutely nothing to counter long range shooting.

Taking absolutely everything into account it doesn't seem like you have much of a chance against a GOOD tau player like the guys I play with. Maybe you just have better rolling than I do, but personally I don't do very well with a 5+ save. And that's all you'll be getting against most all tau guns. You won't be getting better than a 5+ will you? You don't have any grots or anything to screen so it'll basically be the big mek trying to save everyone, right?

It seems that if you haven't played a tau gunline or I.G. gunline there's a lot of things you don't have experience with that would probably have a much easier time smashing you with long range shooting.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:

It seems that if you haven't played a tau gunline or I.G. gunline there's a lot of things you don't have experience with that would probably have a much easier time smashing you with long range shooting.

I play deathwing. Long range armies fear my 1st turn deepstrike.

Deathwing orks? Am I missing something or did we just switch armies?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote: You won't be getting better than a 5+ will you? You don't have any grots or anything to screen so it'll basically be the big mek trying to save everyone, right?

OP posted a killa kan spam (light) list...The Mek gives the kan's a 4+ save and the kans give the boys a 4+ save.

Kinda the basic premise of the "Killa Kan Screen" list.

Kharn the Betrayer
165

Khorne Berzerkers #1
1 Skull Champion
w/Power Fist
8 Berzerkers
w/Personal Icon

Khorne Berzerkers #2
1 Skull Champion
w/Power Fist
9 Berzerkers
w/Personal Icon

Khorne Berzerkers #3
1 Skull Champion
w/Power Fist
9 Berzerkers
w/Personal Icon
1 Chaos Rhino
w/Havoc Launcher, Extra Armour

Land Raider
w/Daemonic Possession, Combi-Flamethrower

Land Raider
w/Daemonic Possession, Combi-Flamethrower

Land Raider
w/Daemonic Possession, Combi-Flamethrower

Forgive the lack of organized list, but i'd probably run 2 defilers, 2-4 squads of Noise marines with sonic blasters/blastmaster/doom siren, 1 squad of Havocs with MoK and 4 flamers, a jump pack lord and a collection of raptors with MoK...

although I guess it depends on what the victory conditions are...

u could run a very simelar list to that... could do well, might not... lots of varients, but all in the tacktix then,

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Deathwing orks? Am I missing something or did we just switch armies?

DeathSKULLS = Orks

Deathwing = All terminator army from DA codex, in which half of your squads put in reserves, rounding up, can deepstrike on turn 1.

Angry Tau.

Flamers and Flechette Dischargers. Railguns for seasoning.

Actually I run a balance Tau list and Yeah. I'd eat the list up. Between two hammerheads firing submunitions and two six-man pathfinder teams bumpng BS and removing coversaves it'll start to hurt quickly. Thats not counting the 3 crisis teams and the broadside team. Oh yeah add in some kroot in cover for a little exta spice.

When whats left of your army reaches assault range I throw out the speed bump and load up to dash to the objectives or the other side of the board.

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:How have you fared against long range, high strength, high volume shooting?

There is only 1 unit in the game that accurately fits that description. And that is lootas.

How about the basic tau rifle? 30" S5... I think that'd take a lot out of most anything. Or 10 heavy weapon platforms from an imperial gunline with 2 demolisher cannons and 3 HB's from a few leman russ'? I think that would accurately fit the description I gave.

1. You said 'unit'. Not 'multiple units firing at one target'. Therefore your 2nd example is pretty moot. And yeah, I will admit my experience against IG is minimal.

@ DoC: even in your pst replying to this, you seem to miss that he never said "unit."

A little further down the page, you seem to miss that the gentleman in question had specifically stated that it was THREE squads of firewarriors providing the 72 shots.

Plz lvl up your reading comprehension skills before shooting down other's comments.

Personnally I would have a couple of Leman Russ's and a basilisk.

2 Leman Russes with a large blast at 72" range= about 12 dead boys in one shot(I've taken a mob of 30 boys down to 9 boys with two shots).

Of course I would use my Russ's for your hard boys and then use 3 hellhounds (range 24" template means I can place my template as long as its withing 24")to devastate your boys.

My basilisk would have no problems with your lootas. The problem is... I have ordnance and unless your guys are hiding underneath the killa cans, then they lose said save. I would also get a 4+ save from your lootas and shootas because of the killa cans as well, but if I give my men cameleoline, I get a 3+ cover save. With a line of about 100 or so men and about 10 autocannons, your killa cans would go down in flames.

As for your big mek, large blasts have the tendency to kill lots of things, I could probably take out a killa can and your big mek at once.

Well, I play marines with so first I'll drop my list: 1 capt/RB/SS/JP in a unit of assault marines (sgt PF/SS), 7 Assault termines (4-TH/SS, 3-LC) in a crusader with MM. 2 TACS: Sgt/SB, Plas Cannon, Plas gun) combat squadded in a RAZR (basically 2 fire teams), 2 attack bike squads of 2/MM, 2 Vindis. Pretty simple list, but able to deal pretty well all around. First I would set up my Razrs and LR to charge into your bulk hopefully clogging your attack lanes. Then I would MM the Kanz, and start lobbing STR10 pie plates on ya, meanwhile I would be retreating as you advance. The Marine fire teams would attempt to take either Kanz or Ard' boyz. You didn't have any trucks, so your list is actually slower than the Ork lists I play against. The Hoard ork list is tough to play against but I feel I could tie up enough units infront to cause you to go around therby increasing the effectiveness of the Vindi's and fire teams. I've never really feared lootas since I am really good at blocking LOS and when they move they can't fire. Or I chase them down with the Assaulty marines and make sure they be dead. My advice to the OP is to get 2 trucks for you assaulty troops ( a move of 12" get out 2" and assault 6" (open topped) is NASTY) this keeps your assaulty troops protected (vehicles are hard to take down now) while making your opponent deal with then almost on turn 1. Then on the next turn use the trucks as blockers (grot riggers are AWESOME). That way you control the lanes of fire while your opponent should be panicking about the 40( x4-5 attacks) that just hit his front line on turn 1. Use the Kanz to guard a flank and use grot cannons (they be the bomb). March with the shoota boyz at your liesure. Oh and a bonus: the Big MEK with KFF in a truck will protect any vehicles 6" from his own. I have hammered a Ork vehicle line (2 trucks and a battlewagon) with anti armor and my opponent made all 5 saves to keep his vehicles after I had rolled to penetrate each one.

DiscipleofCaliban wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Deathwing orks? Am I missing something or did we just switch armies?

DeathSKULLS = Orks

Deathwing = All terminator army from DA codex, in which half of your squads put in reserves, rounding up, can deepstrike on turn 1.

Oh ok, I must have misread that.... I know the name deathskulls but what exactly is it in the ork dex? Is it a play style, specific type of force organization, something else? I don't know many of the specifics on the new orks, like that the fact the KFF gives a 4+ and not a 5+. I see what you're trying to do with the 'kan screen' but like other posters have said, what would you do against anything that removes coversaves and has range (eg. sternguard or pathfinders)?