Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it true ou can use your turboboost on a scout move and get scout bikes into position to allow some termies to teleport in enemy territory? I just want clarification to verify whether I want to pick up any scout bikes. Any input would be fantastic!

You start the movement phase with the reserve rolls, and you have to place all reserves on the table before you get to move anything else. see page 94. So yes, you can do so, but you need to get the scouts into position on the turn before you teleport in your terminators. But since you can turbo boost with your scoutmove that shouldn't be too big a problem.

THANKS!!

Scout moves will not affect deep strikers.

You scout (turbo or not) and the beginning of the game, before first turn.
Regardless of that, your reserves don't even start coming into play until turn 2.

So:
Can you Turbo with your scout move?
Yes.

Can you use your scout bikes to bring in Termies?
Yes.

Can you Turbo your scout move, then use them to bring in Termies from reserves the following turn?
No.

Eric

Thanks for the clarification. I have heard it both ways.

That being said... IIRC, it's a locator beacon, not a teleport homer on the scout bikes.

You can scout bike turboboost on the first turn and then use the locator beacons to place your drop-pod assaulters down.

MagickalMemories wrote:Scout moves will not affect deep strikers.

You scout (turbo or not) and the beginning of the game, before first turn.
Regardless of that, your reserves don't even start coming into play until turn 2.

Unless you have a Deathwing Army, in which case half your Terminators come in on turn one.

Doesn't Drop Pod Assault do something similiar?

Yup scout seargent has a Locator Beacon not a Teleport Homer.

Scout Bikes are indeed, that freaking awesome

I'll try to sum up what have been said above, just to make it a bit clearer.

Scout biker squads sergeants and drop pods can buy a Locator Beacon as an upgrade. This makes all deep striking units placed within 6" of the model immune to scatter. Every deepstriking unit on your side benefits from it: Jump Infantry, terminators, droppods, land speeders, friendly IG with the "Drop Troops"-doctrine or even friendly tyranid lictors, if you happen to play a really strange alliance ;-)

Scout and tactical squad sergeants can buy a Teleport Homer as an upgrade. This makes all _teleporting_ units placed within 6" immune to scatter. That means anyone in terminator armour and possibly grey knight squads taken as fast attack choices. Telion does not have a teleport homer.

To use a teleport homer or locator beacon they must be on the table when your turn starts. So if you are playing the Dawn of War deployment method you can not use your scout bikers Locator Beacon the first turn, since only one HQ and two troops are allowed on the table at the start of the turn.

So, this is when they are used:

After deployment of regular troops and infiltrators, before turn 1: Scouts move

Start of turn 1 movement phase: If you do a Deathwing Assault, or have droppods in your army, half of them will arrive now. After all your deepstriking units have appeared, you may do the rest of the movement phase.

Start of turn 2 movement phase: Roll for reserves and deploy them using the deep strike rules if applicable. Now you can use any teleport homers or locator beacons that has been on the table since deployment or turn one. After all reserves have done their movement/placement, you do the rest of the movement phase.

And then just go on like on turn 2.

In 2/3 deployment methods, the bikers will indeed be very awesome for coordinating droppod attacks. If you have them on the table at deployment they can be up to 48" away from their infiltrated deployment point when your first wave of reserves are rolled for. I really have to remodel my unused spacemarine bikers to scout bikers.

The Green Git wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Scout moves will not affect deep strikers.

You scout (turbo or not) and the beginning of the game, before first turn.
Regardless of that, your reserves don't even start coming into play until turn 2.

Unless you have a Deathwing Army, in which case half your Terminators come in on turn one.

Doesn't Drop Pod Assault do something similiar?

But, then, we're not talking about scout bikers with Locator Beacons. Are we?

Eric

Good point Magickal, if you play a DA army, you will not get locator beacons.

Summary POST:

In Codex Space Marines:
Scout bikes may be included with locater beacons; this allows them to turbo boost before the game begins and have the benefit of the beacon for any units that deepstrike 1st turn (such as drop pods). However Yes assault squads and terminators may use the locater beacon they may not deepstrike on the 1st turn.

In Codex Dark Angles:
A Ravenwing attack squad has teleport homers. And the Scouts USR. However they are limited by a codex special rule that prevents them from turbo boosting (however this is the same rule that provides non-vehicle members of the RAS to be scoring even if taken as a FA choice. Gotta take the good with the bad) So these may be used my any death wing members on the beginning of the 1st turn.

Again Thanks for the info!

EDIT: Red_lives said it better and more completely than I.

Red_Lives wrote:In Codex Dark Angels:
A Ravenwing attack squad has teleport homers. And the Scouts USR. However they are limited by a codex special rule that prevents them from turbo boosting (however this is the same rule that provides non-vehicle members of the RAS to be scoring even if taken as a FA choice. Gotta take the good with the bad) So these may be used my any death wing members on the beginning of the 1st turn.

What you said.

So Jervis' attempt to make the codexes simpler crashes in flames. DA Bikes can scout but can't turbo boost, DA storm shields and different than regular SM storm shields, drop pods work different for the two armies and their Land Raiders have different effects for Smoke Launchers, Machine Spirit and even passenger capacity. Good going there J.

The Green Git wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:In Codex Dark Angels:
A Ravenwing attack squad has teleport homers. And the Scouts USR. However they are limited by a codex special rule that prevents them from turbo boosting (however this is the same rule that provides non-vehicle members of the RAS to be scoring even if taken as a FA choice. Gotta take the good with the bad) So these may be used my any death wing members on the beginning of the 1st turn.

What you said.

So Jervis' attempt to make the codexes simpler crashes in flames. DA Bikes can scout but can't turbo boost, DA storm shields and different than regular SM storm shields, drop pods work different for the two armies and their Land Raiders have different effects for Smoke Launchers, Machine Spirit and even passenger capacity. Good going there J.

Okay, wait a minute.

You can't hang that on Jervis.
Making the armies different is in NO way related to making the codexes simpler.
Just because you have to remember that your army does something different than another army does NOT make the codex any more difficult to understand.

Playing DA & SM is no different than playing IG & Nids. You just have to remember that they are different armies with different rules. If you get the rules confused, you have only yourself to blame.

Eric

That said I see no reason why GW decided to clarify that RW bikers cannot turbo boost during their scout move, in fact I would say it's counter intuitive.

G

MagickalMemories wrote:
You can't hang that on Jervis.
Making the armies different is in NO way related to making the codexes simpler.

Of course I can hang this on Jervis. He's a game designer and strategic manager for GW.

Having a bunch of like named rules and wargear doing different things in different armies is one thing that was supposed to be addressed in 5th Edition with USR and such. Now the same stupid things are cropping up again, all in the name of power creep and new model sales. Is that a Terminator Squad, or a Deathwing Terminator squad? Is that Land Raider a Grey Knights Land Raider, a Dark Angels Land Raider, or a Codex SM Land Raider?

Maybe I worded it poorly... it was the attempt to make the GAME simpler and more consistent that came crashing down in flames.

The Green Git wrote:Of course I can hang this on Jervis. He's a game designer and strategic manager for GW.

Yes, blame him for everything you dislike! With some effort you can try to make him the new Gav Thorpe for hate mongering... then you might as well hold Yakface personally responsible for everything strange in GW's FAQs. That would make about as much sense.

They tried to go back to instant updates and making everything the same between codexes in 4th edition and it didn't work, its unsurprising they've given up on a flawed method feel free to belive otherwise, I believe being wrong is a custom in trolle country.

The Green Git wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
You can't hang that on Jervis.
Making the armies different is in NO way related to making the codexes simpler.

Of course I can hang this on Jervis. He's a game designer and strategic manager for GW.

Having a bunch of like named rules and wargear doing different things in different armies is one thing that was supposed to be addressed in 5th Edition with USR and such. Now the same stupid things are cropping up again, all in the name of power creep and new model sales. Is that a Terminator Squad, or a Deathwing Terminator squad? Is that Land Raider a Grey Knights Land Raider, a Dark Angels Land Raider, or a Codex SM Land Raider?

Maybe I worded it poorly... it was the attempt to make the GAME simpler and more consistent that came crashing down in flames.

Okay. Fine.
Keep in mind, though, that the codexes you're comparing are from two different editions. That DA codex was firmly in 4e when it came out. The new SM codex is the newest breed. Now, if a DA codex for 5e comes out, and it has the same differences... Well, *I* won't have an issue with it, but (IMO) your beef would be far more legitimate. Know what I mean?

Now, before you say that they could "FAQ & Erratta" it, remember that not everyone has internet access. You can't (well, SHOULDN'T) change the way an entire army works with Erratta & FAQ's. Not everyone has internet access.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Now, before you say that they could "FAQ & Erratta" it, remember that not everyone has internet access. You can't (well, SHOULDN'T) change the way an entire army works with Erratta & FAQ's. Not everyone has internet access.
Eric

That is a flawed argument. If your playing a Game like 40k that requires such a substantial investment, you have internet access. Don't even try and argue otherwise. It would be very, VERY simple to errata the BA and DA codex's (and all the others) in one fell swoop, but they don't because they are too lazy.

And even if you dont, so what? you just play the game without the errata. If your going to an official tournament (i.e. a GW run one not anything else) you'll need the internet also.

So, sorry, the argument of "not everyone has internet access" doesn't cut it mate.

Gwar! wrote:That is a flawed argument. If your playing a Game like 40k that requires such a substantial investment, you have internet access. Don't even try and argue otherwise.

You can even prove your point by asking all the people without internet access to raise their hand.


..



..




See, not one person posted to say they don't have internet access. You're competely right. Oh, wait a minute... theres something wrong with that logic....

So, sorry, the argument of "not everyone has internet access" doesn't cut it mate.

Just because you're rich enough to have internet and are sufficently an enthuisast with enough free time to download and read all the FAQs doesn't mean everyone is. Stop being so self-centred. Its a perfectly reasonable point of view for GW to want everyone playing on the same page, without people bringing in reams of printout and copies of White Dwarf for obscure and random extra rules.

It does cut it, and you're wrong.

Hymirl wrote:Just because you're rich enough to have internet and are sufficently an enthuisast with enough free time to download and read all the FAQs doesn't mean everyone is. Stop being so self-centred. Its a perfectly reasonable point of view for GW to want everyone playing on the same page, without people bringing in reams of printout and copies of White Dwarf for obscure and random extra rules.

It does cut it, and you're wrong.

I'll grant you the part about not wanting to bring in reams of printouts and extra material that no one could reasonably keep track of, but that's why the FAQs are all in one place. And while your argument is essentially true, it is a fact that not everyone has internet, Gwar's argument is still valid. Namely, that if you are rich enough and have the free time to spend on Warhammer, then you are rich enough to afford internet and spend 5 minutes going to the GW website. And if you are in that situation but then choose not to get the internet for whatever reason, that's your own problem and not really something that GW should cater to (as it's a very small percentage of the population).

Face it, the internet is ubiquitous today, so it is perfectly reasonable for GW to publish their FAQs and Errata online. Even if you don't have personal internet access, you can go to a library and get online for free if needed.

Well ok since you seem to be immune to logic, lets try another approch.

How many 40k players HAVE internet.

Intelligent Guess.

80%? 90%? 95%?

Whatever it is is is a Clear Majority. Why should GW cater to the minority of players (whom the internet errata wont ever affect anyway until they get internet, at which point they will get all the new spanky rules) to the detriment of the majority of players?

TehCheator wrote:Gwar's argument is still valid. Namely, that if you are rich enough and have the free time to spend on Warhammer, then you are rich enough to afford internet and spend 5 minutes going to the GW website. And if you are in that situation but then choose not to get the internet for whatever reason, that's your own problem and not really something that GW should cater to (as it's a very small percentage of the population).

Yup that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Hymirl wrote: Its a perfectly reasonable point of view for GW to want everyone playing on the same page, without people bringing in reams of printout and copies of White Dwarf for obscure and random extra rules.

Well we still need reams of printouts anyway (namely errata and FAQS, especially for the Space Marine and Ork codex's who have errors and typos by the bucketful) adding a single extra page of "Replace this Effect with this effect" and "replace this Points cost with this points cost" wont change a thing.

Now since this is getting WAAAAY off topic, ill bid adieu now.

Gwar! wrote:

TehCheator wrote:Gwar's argument is still valid. Namely, that if you are rich enough and have the free time to spend on Warhammer, then you are rich enough to afford internet and spend 5 minutes going to the GW website. And if you are in that situation but then choose not to get the internet for whatever reason, that's your own problem and not really something that GW should cater to (as it's a very small percentage of the population).

Yup that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

This is ofcourse assuming people can be both rich and CLEVAR at the same time. Common sense is at a premium & some people loose out. The internet is also for pron, as a wise old tauren once sang, so people may be otherwise occcupied and may not have the time to check out GW's website!

[Ninja]Perhaps adding daemonettes to the FAQ page might help[/Ninja]

wow, this topic really metamorphosed. From a caterpillar to a flamewar...hehe

Hymirl wrote:...then you might as well hold Yakface personally responsible for everything strange in GW's FAQs. That would make about as much sense.

Well he did contribute to the FAQ's. They even mention him by name.

Say... maybe Yak *IS* Jervis.

Gwar! wrote:

So, sorry, the argument of "not everyone has internet access" doesn't cut it mate.

Really? So the three (yes three!) people I know who play 40k, but don't have internet access, don't really exist....

*Starts watching for the men in white coats*


EDIT:

TehCreator wrote:
Namely, that if you are rich enough and have the free time to spend on Warhammer, then you are rich enough to afford internet and spend 5 minutes going to the GW website.

Let me add that these people I know live WAY far out of town, there's no cable TV, or phone access, not even cell phones. I do know one person who lives out their way who has all this stuff, but he was affluent enough to pay to have his own personal T1 line installed in his house. The point is, these people can't afford to pay the cable company to lay lines for them in an area that rural. ( like 100 people in 100 sq. miles.). usually these guys play against each other. Yes they can afford Warhammer, and will drive into town to play and purchase, but no, they simply cannot afford internet access. Are they the exception? Yes.

Lordhat, they can instead get someone else to get them the FAQ's etc and pick them up next time they come into town to play. Since you the FAQ's (since some contain rather important errata) to play anyway it shouldn't make a shred of difference to just add in an extra page of Erratas

Problem Sorted.